This election will ruin the US

I have to tell you all I was never good with numbers, but I can see when something does not add up.

This election will ruin the US

It very well could. I'm confident that the Democrats have already got their team of lawyers hired and in preperation to challange the results if it's anything except a landslide.

If (more likely when) that happens, the American Public could lose what little faith they have left in the system and then hardly anyone will vote except for the extremists on both sides. This would suit the Democrats fine I think. They don't think the public can make decisions for itself anyway. Since Liberalism is based on emotion and emotional people are easier to use triggers on and make angry, the Democrats would certainly come out ahead in this situation as they have more of what I consider extremist on their side, but I dont think it would be good for the country.

Ambient, that's a completely unfair assessment of Democrats as a group IMO. Especially considering your implication that Republicans are strictly logical and above emotion or election shinanigans.

What was the California recall about? Getting people ANGRY over taxes, and STARCROSSED over an emotionally appealing hero. Schwarzenegger.

Is Reagen so popular because of his intellectual appeal or emotional? Same for Bush? Do you like him because he's so smart or because he STANDS for something in your opinion?

Mind you I'm not saying liberals don't have strong emotional feelings, but that Republicans don't and are the logical ones is absurd. Who's screaming MAH MONEY DAMBIT every time you turn around? What are the intellectual appeals of refering to "welfare queens" and "lazy dems"? What about the cultural divisions making feel good laws to keep gays from having the same rights as everyone else? Is it an intellectual decision to support the ten commandments in federal buildings? Prayer in school? Outlawing abortion to stop those "silent screams"? Being against stem cell research because it might upset the fetus loving constituency?

Talk about emotional pandering.

I.ve read alot on this thread as too the ecomony and how Bush has ruined the US...and How Kerry will not be much better in office...I work with the public and I have yet to see all these new jobs created...I hear on a daily basis people talking about not being able to afford buying their kids the toys and other things they need because they either can't find new employment after being laid-off or fired due to either the company moving overseas or the company no longer able to keep up with the cheaper products being made elsewhere and shipped hear..My company alone has seen changes from this....We(management)have lost our bonuses...not just X-mas but all bonuses...The owner has dropped our health insurance...He says its because he just cant afford it anymore..The file cabinet that holds applications for employment in our office has increased substantially...The only thing i have to say about Bush is that he is nothing but a liar in his promises...I live in the St. Louis Mo. area and we have had 16 public school closings(that may not seem like much but considering we already have a problem with overcrowded schools thats unacceptable)...so much for no child left behind.....Also Darktalon.I would love to see the proof you have that Iraq had plans to attack the US
There is alot more that i can say but i dont want to take up more space....maybe in another post


comments?

What was the California recall about? Getting people ANGRY over taxes, and STARCROSSED over an emotionally appealing hero. Schwarzenegger.

Actually the recall was started by Democrats. Didn't need to get people angry over taxes, it was plain to see. And it was more about how he said they money would be spent, then didn't do it the way he promised. We had 2 million dollars per school(higher education school), cut in one year, and still adds going out for extra state government jobs opening, car tax more then tripled. Yes I payed $1200 to register my car. We pay 30-50 cents more then the national average per gallon for gas, all because of some fake ass amissions standard that is actually worse for the enviorment.

Arnold is very charismatic, he is also very fiscally conservative(what the state needs and wanted right now), but he is very social moderate(pro-choice, ect..) He, or any canidate that had the balls to stand up for those same beliefs would have beat Davis.

You talk about this election no one wins, you must have missed the Grey Davis/Bill Simmons race. Hmmm libral spender with the personality of a dead fish, or conservitve bible pounder who lead a business to bankruptcy as it's CEO. Guess what, Cali didn't want either.

Arnold is very charismatic, he is also very fiscally conservative(what the state needs and wanted right now), but he is very social moderate(pro-choice, ect..) He, or any canidate that had the balls to stand up for those same beliefs would have beat Davis.

Don't get me wrong I like him as an actor, but this description is just political make over, and don't get me started with the macho, porn, and rape allegations.

Stocks are twice as high as a decade ago. More jobs are being created monthly than at any time in history. Unemployment is in Florida where I live is near its all time low and employers are having a hard time finding employees who want to work. Employment is higher nationally than at the end of Clinton's first term.

Business profits and employee income is rising faster than economists expected and the economic growth rate outpaced every major economist's predictions for the last two quarters.

If this is a ruined economy, can you imagine what a "good" economy would be?

www.onealclan.com

Originally posted by cyberdude78
Who ever wins we lose. Bush will screw the economy but Kerry will screw our military. If Kerry reduces our military then terrorist will attack with out fear of reprsisal. If Bush wins well everybody hates him for a lot of reasons. I just wonder what happened to the good old days when we had good presidents. What will we do with these horrible leaders.

Yes, the days of an independent Executive are long gone. Whoever occupies the office now is nothing but a tool of the shadow powers, the elites, the international bankers and military-industrial-pharmeceutical cartels.

I'm not blowing my horn for Kerry, but he is actually calling for beefing up the regular forces. What worries me is that he is making noise about enlarging the special ops. That's all we need! There are some damn fine ex-commandos, but on the other hand, this is also where so many "terrorists" and freelance mercenaries come from. That's bad news.

Americans do not have a choice for a true leader at this point. We all know that. Voting for Kerry will probably only push back the inevitable by a small handful of years. He would've pushed the Patriot Act down congress's throat just like Bush did. They serve the same master. They just have completely different styles.

If Bush wins, the coup de tat is complete.

You need to go back to the beginning of the thread and read,

I think you by pass the hole thing.

Yes, guilty as charged.

If I have time I will. I just wanted to comment on the author's first comment.

Please don't shoot me, Marg!

I was not talking about you EastCoast kid, You know what is going on is the person before you. Sorry I should have specify who it was, Im guilty.

Originally posted by 2012
More jobs are being created monthly than at any time in history. Unemployment is in Florida where I live is near its all time low and employers are having a hard time finding employees who want to work. Employment is higher nationally than at the end of Clinton's first term.

Please examine the the previous page of this thread and the US Dept of Labor Survey and show me these jobs...who's getting them....how we're better off than 4 years ago? I'm not saying you're lying, or spinning more good ol' Bush "optimism" but where's the data? Are your claims based on the widely held assertion nothing Clinton did counts? I'm going to look at the monthly charts again just for you and ignore the 2000 unemployment lows Bush inherited (and hates being compared to) and the 9/11 drop and just see what Bush has done these last few years and months that Republicans are so proud of....

Unemployment stats by demos in the following order...

Year Beginning '02 : '03 : '04 : (and May/current)
White People: 5.1 : 5.1 : 4.9 : 5.0 (flat)
Black People: 10.0 : 10.5 : 10.5 : 9.9
Hispanics: 7.8 : 7.9 : 7.3 : 7.0

I do see job growth for minorities since 9/11 though still down overall past 4 years (see previous analysis). So that's something, but as a middle class white guy...well let's just see.

Year Beginning '02 : '03 : '04 : (and May/current)
< HS education: 8.3 : 8.8 : 8.5 : 8.8
HS education: 5.2 : 5.2 : 4.9 : 5.0
Some College: 4.3 : 4.8 : 4.5 : 4.0
College+ Degree: 2.9 : 3.0 : 2.9 : 2.9 (flat)

Only job growth area since 9/11 then is among some college/associate degree types, but still nothing to brag about (4.3 to 4.0). My quesion is where's the job growth for white college educated under Bush? India?

One more looksey just to see if he's screwing men too.

Ok, no trend difference in Men v Women to cite, though men do report more current unemployment (5.2 : 4.8). NOTE: Not reporting this with any political agenda other than curiosity if my fellow educated white males feel as bleek about things a I do.

Speaking of which...DISCOURAGED JOB WORKERS REPORT.
Defined as not in labor force, want a job NOW, discouraged by prospects and see no jobs available...

Year Beginning '02 : '03 : '04 : (and May/current)
IN THOUSANDS: 328: 449 : 432 : 476

Just keeps getting worse under Bush doesn't it?

It's really interesting how high expectations were when Bush took office. The 10 year low of discouraged workers is well after the tech bubble popped. 232 in Oct 2000 under Bush and relatively unphased by 9/11 (285).

So despite all the Bush "optimism" ads and his apologists posts about how great things are....America disagrees. The numbers disagree. My anecdotal experience disagrees. And no matter how much the stock brokers (aka Fox News) want me to have confidence in Bush's steady leadership, I know better.

[edit on 24-6-2004 by RANT]

Hey - no problem!

Regarding the post above mine.. This economy sucks. I don't care what the media is currently saying. In all my working years, I've never seen things so bad. This administration thinks flipping burgers is manufacturing. Have you ever heard anything more ridiculous?

DEFICITS! Thanks George W. and the war machine! We have deficits, or chains around us, for the remainder of our lives and our children's children's children's lives now.

We are all slaves of the IMF. Hail the plutocracy!

Originally posted by RANT
Ambient, that's a completely unfair assessment of Democrats as a group IMO. Especially considering your implication that Republicans are strictly logical and above emotion or election shinanigans.

Do you actually believe that right now the Democrats don't have lawyers getting themselves familiar with election law, "just in case"?

That is pretty naive if you ask me. I expect both parties are preparing for this and it would be stupid not to considering the chaos of 2000. The Republicans know it's probably coming. Democrats tried to go around the system once so I see no reason why we shouldn't expect it again.

And no, I do not think the Republicans would have challanged the results in 2000 in the same way if the situation had been reversed.

[edit on 24-6-2004 by Ambient Sound]

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
We have deficits, or chains around us, for the remainder of our lives and our children's children's children's lives now.

They said that before. The 90s showed that deficits can be delt with...

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
They said that before. The 90s showed that deficits can be delt with...

Really!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Well that is why my husband and I have to worry about retirement now (second for him) because we could not live with one, like his father and mine, and that is why my daughter is worrying about the future of social security and her own retirement and she is still in college.

Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Some people are still in denial, wait when you be in your retirement age, and don't talk to me about portfolio, we have one and is not looking good for long term. We have lost money so far. After the gains we had during Clinton administration.

[edit on 24-6-2004 by marg6043]

Marg, who promised you a retirement? Nobody has promised me one. Is it this country's responsibility to provide for you? No, that is your responsibility and that of your children. That is how it has been for 99% of human history.

You are promised nothing here except opportunity and the right to be free to persue it.

[Edit added] You were never promised success and it is not our responsibility insure that you have it. [edit end]

[edit on 24-6-2004 by Ambient Sound]

Huh? Marg and her husband have worked their a$$e$ off. They have built their retirement. They should have full value on it. And yes, Marg - portfolio values have dropped like a lead stone. A friend of mine laments the loss of value so much so that he is thinking about cashing in now while there is some value left (In the last few years its taken a helluva hit).

That 'who promised you a retirement' line is nothing more than brainless Rush Limbaugh gibberish.

Yeah!!!

At least my husband and I have plans, many if not millions of people does not have anything, and guess whose is going to carry that burden, our children and grandchildren.

I am just been realistic, not mean but just realistic, when you are young you think that the government is going to be there for you as you get older you realize by looking around and see people struggling to put food in the table, sometimes we tend to disassociate from others because we do not fall in the same category. The future of this country is in jeopardy.





[edit on 24-6-2004 by marg6043]

There is a looming crisis that young people have no concept of. The baby boomers are getting ready to retire soon. When that happens and they start looking for their social security, the coffers are gonna empty quick. It's gonna be a genuine fiasco. And people below the age of 25 or so will be utterly screwed. Wake up!