Man Brutally Assaulted For Hurting Himself

reply to post by Holly N.R.A.


No he was tased because he didnt follow the officers commands. He could have avoided the whole situation by not mentioning hurting himself. You can not have a sense of humor with people in EMS. That is how you get sued. If the police and medics would have ignored that statement and he killed himself. The wife would have sued and won, and the medics would have lost there license to practice. I did not agree with him getting tased more than once. They handled that poorly. Every time the police taze someone they have to have a medical exam by EMS. That sure sounds jackbooted to me

"Stop resisting!"
"Stop resisting!"
"Stop resisting!"

The man is laying on the floor screaming in pain and that's all these brutes pretending to be law officers can say.

Dear God. This is sheer insanity.

Why were they even there??

He's going to win an insane amount of money if he gets a jury trial. The money won't take away his horrible experience and the people of Marin county will foot the bill. There is no justice.

reply to post by rakkasansct


Well, I have "joked" back and forth with the medics when they have helped me...and it has been more than once...they have also spoken to me as a person, asking of course, have I thought of hurting my self, and my answer was at one point "nope, but this pain is so bad maybe if I broke my arm, I might not think about it so much"...law suit ???ummm, the man's wife was asking the cops to quit tasing him, you can hear her screaming in the back round to stop. All the guy wanted to do was to go to bed and have all those people in his house just go away and leave him alone.

He was unarmed, stood up to leave the room, and it was the cops that escalated the situation to the point it reached. If someone would have tried speaking in calming tones, to the man, or his wife, instead of ORDERING them (and in their own home, at that) they may have been able to de-escalate the whole thing. Again, a medic might have been the best choice since they deal with medicine, which is a lot more non threatening than being a cop.

As for police/medics with military back rounds...how many of them complete psych treatment before taking their civilian jobs? When they forget that the American people are NOT the enemy they have been fighting for so many years....they may find they won't have to FEAR the possibility of lawsuits...and if the FEAR keeps the quality of their chosen profession from being it's best, maybe they had better think about going back into the military.

~holly

reply to post by Holly N.R.A.


What your talking about is different than joking about killing yourself. There is a high number of suicides in my area. Joking or not it is taken very seriously here not just by EMS and police. Also the ER, RNs and MDs. I agree with you a medic should have been talking to him. In most cases it is better to have EMS deal with pysch pts. But you can't always calm someone or talk them into taking a ride to the hospital. Thats when the police have to place them in custody.
You talk about fear of lawsuits and veterans. Maybe you should spend some time in a firehouse. Alot of the talk is about lawsuits. It is extremely common for people to sue EMS. They think its easy money. EMS and fire has to be extremely careful and diligent to avoid it. Which in turn makes you do your job better. No cutting corners. 100% right all the time.
Either way you look at this the police didn't need to taze him 3 times and the man didn't need to joke about suicide. The sensationalists on here are just trying to make all police officers look bad.

reply to post by rakkasansct


I stand by my belief that the tazers reduce officer's skills in handling people. Look at this situation specifically. They roll in, start to bark orders, and when joe citizen doesn't comply, they apply torture to force compliance. It really is that cut and dried.
The thought process they used was so simplistic and scripted that there was no room for de-escalation, no time allowed for the citizen to express his feelings and concerns, and certainly no logic applied to the legality of their actions.
Because they have tazers, cops follow an ABC incident plan:

A) Subject compliant to my will. No further action needed.
B) Subject uncompliant with my demands. Apply electro-motivation to subject.
C) Subject has weapon and is uncompliant. Shoot subject.

And as for good cops, of course there are good cops out there, but you cannot look at the direction of policing in America and not admit there is a fundamental shift happening for the worse.
What was a profession that served citizens is morphing into a "detain and process" force that has detached itself from constitutional values.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
"Stop resisting!"
"Stop resisting!"
"Stop resisting!"

The man is laying on the floor screaming in pain and that's all these brutes pretending to be law officers can say.

Dear God. This is sheer insanity.

Why were they even there??

He's going to win an insane amount of money if he gets a jury trial. The money won't take away his horrible experience and the people of Marin county will foot the bill. There is no justice.

Exactly... He was not resisting at that point. No need to shock a man with a heart condition... I would charge them with attempted murder with that needless freeking shock torture.

Please, come justify that one after watching the video..... crickets, thought not.

[edit on 2-9-2010 by infolurker]

Originally posted by rakkasansct
reply to post by richierich

 

Im trying to understand your guys reasoning on this. Do you have other proof or statistics besides one retired police chief? Has this happened to you? What created your hatred of cops? Internet propaganda?
Coming for a combat arms military background. The police I work with are very proffessional. I live and work in a rural county. So they might have a better attitude than big city police officers.

"No matter WHAT happens to me, I would never scream for a cop, unless I needed a report taken for something..they are useless other than that.
Why do cop groupies always say that we independent people will break down and whimper and call the cops? If we are armed and ready, who needs a cop? "richie rich

Have you ever feared for your life? Fought for your life? Killed for your life?
I have feared and fought for my life in Iraq and in the states. Seriously have you ever been in that situation? I understand some people are completely capable of protecting there life. And some only in there minds. Which one are you honestly?
Dozens of stories does not equal all police officers being jack booted thugs. I am not in anyway a cop groupie. But I have enough of an open mind and critical thinking ability to see. That not all police officers are good, and a very small fraction are the ones that are bad. Thats the way it is with everything in life though.

I have fought hand to hand and been in a shoot out, so I think I know what you mean. However, when cops are too afraid to walk up and take control and must kill or disable the citizen to avoid placing hands on them it has gone too far. Cops NO DOUBT perjure themselves all the time....ask any cop that you know well enough to be honest with you, and he will defend perjury as a necessary part of ' closing the case' and as all cops believe all suspects are guilty they have no qualms about lying under oath.

MOST cops lie under oath....no doubt. MOST cops cover up abuses by their pals....MOST cops abuse the people and process , sometime over and over, and it takes an almost incredible amount of evidence to get a cop arrested or charges, as other cops cover up so often.

One day the cops will be looking over their shoulders at us citizens for support, and if they do not change their tune, and fast, they will find out that the lead is coming from both directions, and then they will repent for all their crimes against the people. I hope it does not come to that, but if it does to get our rights back once and for all, so be it. Polite cops are the only ones we should allow to walk the streets.

reply to post by rakkasansct


Good points.. its wrong to try and make all cops look wrong because not all cops are wrong.

In my mind it is OK to say these cops were wrong for being tazer happy - because they were.

It is also OK to say the guy shouldn't have joked about killing himself -because he should not have.

Two wrongs don't make a right as they say..

As for the cops - if you / me / the other cops/ the powers that be / and the world at large let being "taser happy" be OK - then it becomes OK and it becomes the norm.

All it really takes for bad stuff to start becoming OK (regardless of who it is done by) is for good people to be silent about it.



[edit on 2-9-2010 by Frogs]

[edit on 2-9-2010 by Frogs]

Originally posted by Frogs
reply to post by rakkasansct

 

All it really takes for bad stuff to start becoming OK (regardless of who it is done by) is for good people to be silent about it.

Or for police officers to start doing it.

People have been having their children electrotortured and have even water-boarded their children.

Once the military or police do it and don't get charged, it becomes "acceptable behaviour" and can be done without too much worry by almost anyone else who is of a mind to do it. Some people begin to view torture as Okay. It has a devastating effect on society.

Hindsight is always 20:20...isn't it ?

So easy to play "Monday Morning Quarterback"...right ???

Not every situation is black and white, especially when it's going down...unless you live in a comic book.

Everyone hates the police until they need them.

So, rather than complaining...what's the solution ?

No solution...we're all hypocrites...including myself.

Originally posted by salman rushdie

No solution...we're all hypocrites...including myself.

So you cannot think of a single solution?

Alas.

Perhaps this man would not have been tortured if the officers were not given implements of torture - it is often the simple things that are the best remedy.

The officers didn't need to blow his head off, and so they did not need to torture him with an electro-torture device. Statists will disagree.



Edit:

When the benevolent dictator finally gets elected, I'm going to lobby for a law to have torture supporters thrown in jail. To the camps with them.

[edit on 3-9-2010 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by Onet Wosix

Originally posted by mnemeth1

Originally posted by Hefficide

Wow. Add mental health care and 72 hour suicide assessments to the long list of atrocities that are being imposed upon the mentally ill in this country.

What barbarians we are.

If mental health care includes electro-shock therapy, count me out.

Count me out as well - they used to think lobotomys were the best thing going at one time.

Horrible ...check this...

en.wikipedia.org...

Kinda off topic, sorry, but apparently the lobotomy procedure is still being performed in some countries in Europe:




I think some police departments are a little too quick to use the Taser, and some officers don't mind using it freely once is is deployed on a subject.

reply to post by salman rushdie
To be fair, some people hate the police after they need them...

And they don't show up in time to be of help, or show up at all.

Or when they do show up in time, they arrest the wrong person,

or write up the accident report intentionally using the wrong vehicle tag number so that their friend that drove down the street hitting parked vehicles did not get in trouble, nor did he end up being liable for the damages that he caused.

Some people hate that some officers go home to use drugs that they seized from teenagers earlier in the day, letting the kids off with a 'warning'.

Some people hate them because they leave parties inebriated, and when told that they are in no shape to drive, retort: "Who is going to arrest me?".

Some people hate to see their first cousin, who was previously law-abiding, break any number of laws, AFTER becoming a state police officer. Just because he knows he can get away with it.

I am not anti-cop, I am anti-hypocrite, and all of these examples(plus plenty more that I haven't listed) are from my first hand knowledge.

[edit on 3-9-2010 by butcherguy]

Originally posted by Hefficide

Wow. Add mental health care and 72 hour suicide assessments to the long list of atrocities that are being imposed upon the mentally ill in this country.

What barbarians we are.

If you can't see that using a taser as a standard order compliance device is unwarranted torture and a severe health hazard, then perhaps you should be sent to a mental health clinic for evaluation. Tasers were developed as fire-arms alternatives. If you think that was a good time to use a fire-arm and shoot him, there is something wrong with you. The police who did that belong in prison, perhaps along with you if you ever do the same thing. They could have killed a man simply for disobeying an order. The only valid reason to use a taser is when it would also be valid to use a fire-arm. Tasers are supposed to save people, not kill people as you and many government thugs seem to believe.

Originally posted by rakkasansct
reply to post by Holly N.R.A.

 

No he was tased because he didnt follow the officers commands. He could have avoided the whole situation by not mentioning hurting himself. You can not have a sense of humor with people in EMS. That is how you get sued. If the police and medics would have ignored that statement and he killed himself. The wife would have sued and won, and the medics would have lost there license to practice. I did not agree with him getting tased more than once. They handled that poorly. Every time the police taze someone they have to have a medical exam by EMS. That sure sounds jackbooted to me

As a medic you should know that the only valid use of a taser is an alternative to a fire-arm because of the risk of triggering a heart attack and/or death upon use of the taser. To say it would be okay to use the taser once is more or less saying it would be okay at that point to shoot the guy in the leg which probably has an equal death risk to the use of a taser gun. So, would you say the cops would have been okay to shoot him in the leg just one time? It would only be once.

reply to post by richierich


Amen brother, amen.

For almost his entire life my father said that if you were too stupid or lazy to do anything else you always could teach school or be a cop. Over the years I see more and more truth in what he believed.

I'll admit that over the years I've met a couple of cops that were credits to their profession but most are horrible human beings that prove the maxim that the grass is always greener over the septic tank.

I have, on several occasions, given the advice to those wronged and brutalized by the boys in blue to do nothing other than take note and be patient. America the great is crumbling and will soon collapse upon itself from the internal rot that has hollowed it out.

In that not too distant future when anarchy rules the day scores of all kinds will be settled vigilante style. The big mistake the badge toting troglodytes make is believing that they will remain at the top of the food chain for all time. With a finite supply of ammo and an infinite supply of humanity natural selection will make quick work of the gorilla in a man suit.

In the end we all get what we deserve. There is a cosmic justice at work in the universe that may, for a time, allow the scales to tip in favor of one side over the other. The greater the imbalance the more violent the correction when it comes and come it will.

I make these remarks as a way to encourage the badge wielders of this country to carefully consider the gravity of their actions in performance of their duties.

"I was only doing my job" didn't cut it in Nuremberg. After a brief reign of terror the gallows and the prison were the recompense of thugs. And so it will be here.

There is a bit of an update on this..

Now the sheriff is saying the man was tazered because he charged the deputies.

Sheriff says man 'charged' deputy before being Tased

SAN RAFAEL, CA (KGO) -- The Marin County Sheriff's Department says a deputy fired his Taser at 64-year-old Peter McFarland at his home in June 2009 because McFarland "charged at deputies."

But the video recorded by a camera mounted atop the Taser appears to show McFarland getting up from the couch calmly, not displaying any aggressive move toward the deputies.

Ok - I looked at the same vid. My 2 cents - he was angry at the deputies. But he didn't charge them.. all he did was stand up, and he did that very slowly. No aggressive move at all on his part that I saw.

Of course, this proclamation could just be one of the perks of getting to investigate your own angency to determine if you did anything wrong.

Originally posted by platipus

Originally posted by Nventual
Only in America, thank God.

yes, because every terrible thing happens only in that place.

That's not true. Sometimes they take it elsewhere!!



This new ATS is making me read old threads for some reason. It's got no hot topics and no current threads that i can find... oh well, the list doesnt see to change in this firehose thing which I've never used, so I will apologise if I bump threads :/ not the same if I cant see whats new the way I used to... too much work now.

But anyhoo, why do these threads always contain one or two who say what is going on is ok? It's NOT. saying I'll kill myself should not mean I get tortured into submission. Guess what, if Im serious I'll let you do your crap and then I'll be 100 times more crapped off and might take it further.

"Do NOT harm youself sir, or we will harm you!" - brilliant logic.

I do not know a single cop who is worth my respect....