Dow surges over 200 and now today the economy is improving.

Is it just me or are we getting conflicting news everyday about the economy? They report 1 tidbit of good manufacturing news and all of a sudden all is well again? Please... tomorrow's headline will be another downer and we will be going to hell in a hand basket again. How can anything be improving when we are trillions in debt and we continue to borrow from China? When will the government get real with us?

reply to post by Jeremiah Johnson


"When will the government get real with us"


Did you mean that as an aside point to your statements about the market?

Originally posted by Jeremiah Johnson
When will the government get real with us?

They will never get real with us, because that would require admitting that they are the ones responsible for this mess and the misery of millions of people.

They will keep lying and scapegoating and dividing and conquering right up until the day they finally implode.

reply to post by Kaytagg


Well I believe to an extent the government controls what the media is allowed to report so I hold Washington responsible for any market news considering all the connections between politicians and the bankers. I don't use the market as a gauge for the health of the economy but IMO it seems to be presented as such by the news media. I look at the amount of unemployed and debt to get a better understanding as to what is going on.

Their trying to fool and convicne us by lying, hoping we go out on a spending spree, thats all the smart ones will bank thier money, invest it not spend it*

To me it just seems like lazy reporting. The DOW is up b/c of (link random recent news story here). The DOW is down b/c of (something I just read on the news ticker). No discussion of what is normal variation, historical context, etc. Just random guesses disguised as facts. Anyone who understands data analysis knows that single points are meaningless. You need sustained movement over many points to say anything definitive. Lazy reporters just randomly linking one thing with others. IMO.

Originally posted by Jeremiah Johnson
reply to post by Kaytagg

 

Well I believe to an extent the government controls what the media is allowed to report

You may believe that, I choose to believe that Corporations control the government. Think about who owns 'the media'? The media is owned by the same people who control other aspects of our lives. Multi-national corporations are more powerful than governments. They're bigger than Jesus, one might say!

Looks like the plunge protection team may be active again.
Funny (but not) how a couple days ago according to the MSM foreclosures were skyrocketing, consumer confidence was sinking, housing prices were diving, unemployment remained the same week after week (month after month...), and now it's all on the mend and things look just cheerio!

Talk about a bipolar media - we're up, we're down, we're, optimistic, we're pessimistic, constantly changing on a daily basis. More and more people are wondering why they waste their time listening to these inept talking mouths who can speak all day but say nothing, very much like a politician.

Dylan Ratigan on MSNBC is the only one worth listening to on the MSM now. CSPAN is complete B.S. like the rest of them.

I like to go to www.cepr.net... for my economic news.

reply to post by TypeSH2001


Well said and echos my view

Well, you must remember that the stock market is not necessarily a direct indicator of economic health (or lack thereof).

Yes, when a real economic turning point hits, the market will rise/fall quite a bit. The problem is that with high-frequency trading, plunge protection teams, and all of the the financial "instruments" and "packages" out there, it is impossible to get an accurate picture of how the actual economy is doing based on stock market changes.

As others have said, the media does not help. The media knows that people look to the DJIA and other indexes on a daily basis so they will write headlines that try to explain the gain or drop on the major indexes. Of course, this is just the media trying to give the consumers what they think the consumers want.

Is it inaccurate and irresponsible? Yes. Is this any surprise that the MSM would do such things? Nope.

My favorite is when Bloomberg.com will air a headline to the effect of "Markets climb on speculation that _______ will strengthen the economy." then a few hours later when the market starts falling the headline will switch to "Markets fall on speculation that _______ will lead to another recession."

What you see right now is an implosion in VERY EXTREME SLOW MOTION. Volatility will continue to increase and we will start seeing these triple digit losses and gains until the bottom falls out. Give it a little time.... remember, that this is all in very slow motion.

I believe the more manipulated the markets are, the slower this process will drag out. I also believe that no matter what happens, the end result will be the same. Remember folks, this is all cyclical.

[edit on 1-9-2010 by nydsdan]

reply to post by Jeremiah Johnson


It is to keep the masses from pulling out of the market. Everything is starting to tilt. Check this out from the 29th.

Safehaven

You are not going to believe this, but on Friday, August 27th, we got both a fifth official Hindenburg Omen observation and a 90 percent up day. Completely bizarre combination, which is the point. It is this sort of confrontational confusion inside markets which is the basis and background for all of the stock market crashes over the past 25 years.

Ok, so it went up a little. That means alls right with the world now...right? How does that mean the economy is improving, because it went up a little bit in one day? It does this all the time, just like a roller coaster. Does this include the stock manipulation that goes on there?

The fraudulent "market" hasn't moved but 30 point off its high today, once again displaying that it's a manipulated JOKE....

Yesterday, 70 points in losses vanished in minutes after the Ponzi scheme opened, yet it can "trade" for hours "in a range" near the high during "rallies"....

The interference during losses is painfully obvious, as is the lack of volatility during these manufactured "rallies"....Once again, it'll take weeks for this fraudulent "market" to regurgitate this laughable, unjustified "rally"....

The US stock "market" truly is the laughing stock of the financial world, and the most powerful mechanism of legalized fraud on the planet.

[edit on 1-9-2010 by FermiFlux]

Originally posted by Jeremiah Johnson
Is it just me or are we getting conflicting news everyday about the economy? They report 1 tidbit of good manufacturing news and all of a sudden all is well again? Please... tomorrow's headline will be another downer and we will be going to hell in a hand basket again. How can anything be improving when we are trillions in debt and we continue to borrow from China? When will the government get real with us?

The problem is that people are idiots.
They don't understand how to read between the lines.

For example, a report will be that spending rose by 1.5% in August, but that's in comparison to July. It might actually be 50% lower than this time last year, but they won't mention that.

They manipulate the numbers. It's just confidence game where they tweak figures and omit information to make everything appear to be improving. This fools the markets who willingly accept any good news to allow them to continue their gambling. All they need is an excuse to carry on playing the game, even if they know it's as fake as their entire system.

You have to consider that the real economy is not reflected in the markets. The two are, of course, completely separate animals.

The Government won't mention this, because they only see this as the important sector; the rich guys, the traders and global commerce. They couldn't give a crap about the real economy, as long as the markets are okay and their own investments and business interests are safe and still growing.

Never trust a word any of them say. They either didn't see this coming, or they failed to act to prevent it, therefore your government (and mine, and every other government on Earth) has either been grossly incompetent or insanely corrupt. In either case we shouldn't be trusting ANY statistic, any announcement by government or any plan to rectify it.

Originally posted by Jeremiah Johnson
Is it just me or are we getting conflicting news everyday about the economy? They report 1 tidbit of good manufacturing news and all of a sudden all is well again? Please... tomorrow's headline will be another downer and we will be going to hell in a hand basket again. How can anything be improving when we are trillions in debt and we continue to borrow from China? When will the government get real with us?

You can't just look at a broad measure or statistic and assume the number is good. The manufacturing number was higher than expected, but that was due to higher than expected imports and larger inventories than estimated. Those are not positive things for the economy, but for this statistic it drives the number higher. Additionally, buried within the statistic is the commentary from manufacturers that their manufacturing is being driven by foreign demand.

So here's what this number today really says:

1) We imported even more than we thought we would, so our trade deficit is higher.
2) Inventories are higher than expected which means they aren't being drawn down and bought as quickly as thought. Thats bad.
3) Foreign economies are placing more orders than the US with manufacturers..... that with the US being the biggest consumer.

So this manufacturing number is not as good as it looks. Its like someone saying they lost weight, so people assume they are working out and eating healthy, but its actually because they have been sick and throwing up all over the place.

reply to post by johnny2127


Good analogy lol

reply to post by Jeremiah Johnson



I agree and i find the unemployment weekly numbers bogus beyond belief...as well as the 9.6% too

reply to post by tspark


Definitely bogus, I have had 3 friends get laid off in as many weeks and that is just this past month, that isn't counting the friends from the past year that got the axe. Everyday I come into work I wonder if it will be my last, I work for a very large and well known corporation and they won't think twice about kicking me out the door but on a side note they have no issue giving the CEO a 12 million dollar bonus the past 2 years while the rest of us haven't seen a raise in 3 years.

reply to post by nydsdan



yep....some of the reasons they come up with for the drop/surge are comical..

used to be the price of oil that cracked me up.....

There may be a storm coming into the gulf...."oil jumps $5/barrel"
Israel has a car bomb goes...."oil spikes"
people are eating out less each week thus less travel "oil plunges $1"