Originally posted by Gainsayer
Groundbreaking ideas and opinions.
Shia and Sunni sectarian violence you say? Iranian influence? Both have been going on for years, and it's decreasing, not increasing. The slight
spike Iraq has been receiving lately is an insurgency in it's death throes.
Couldn't agree more.
Even under Saddam Hussein the conflict between Sunni and Shia was brewing. He was able to maintain control with extreme brutality. I've wonder the
wisdom of trying to spread "Democracy in Iraq" The issue between Shia and Sunni has been going on for centuries. It would be foolish IMO for the US
or anyone else for that matter to think that it could be solved in only 7 or 8 years. Civil war? Sure, why not. It's not like it hasn't already been
Maybe a good old fashion all out civil war between Shiites and Sunnis is whats needed for that region to finally get it's head out of it's backside.
Most if not all of the deaths and attacks in Iraq have been sectarian in nature over the past 3 years or so.
As far as Iran's influence goes Iran has had it's tendrils in Iraq
now. Mahdi Army
The US have not 'pushed' the Shia and Sunni into any 'position'. Violence between the two denominations has been going on since the
inception of Islam. If anything, the US has finally given them equal footing and a chance to deliberate, not retaliate. Naturally, changing your
thought process does not happen overnight. Regardless, nobody is to blame but themselves for the mass killings and genocidal neighborhood sweeps they
were committing against each other. Kindly try not to put all the problems in the world at the US' feet.
Here is a quick rundown of the history between the two.
570: The Prophet Muhammad is born.
598: Ali, who will become the fourth caliph and the first Shiite Imam, is born.
610: The year Muslims cite as the beginning of Muhammad's mission and revelation of the Koran.
613: The public preaching of Islam begins.
630: The Muslims, led by Muhammad, conquer Mecca.
632: Muhammad dies. Abu Bakr is chosen as caliph, his successor. A minority favors Ali. They become known as Shiat Ali, or the partisans of Ali.
656: Ali becomes the fourth caliph after his predecessor is assassinated. Some among the Muslims rebel against him.
661: Violence and turmoil spread among the Muslims; Ali is assassinated.
680: Hussein, son of Ali, marches against the superior army of the caliph at Karbala in Iraq. He is defeated, his army massacred, and he is beheaded.
The split between Shia and Sunnis deepens. Shia consider Ali as their first Imam, Hussein as the third Imam.
873: The 11th Shiite Imam dies. No one succeeds him.
873-940: In the period, known as the Lesser Occultation, the son of the 11th Imam disappears, leaving his representatives to head the Shiite faith.
940: The Greater Occultation of the 12th or Hidden Imam begins. No Imam or representative presides over the Shiite faithful.
1258: The Mongols, led by Hulagu, destroy Baghdad, ending the Sunni Arab caliphate.
1501: Ismail I establishes the Safavid Dynasty in Persia, and declares Shiism the state religion.
1900: Ruhollah Khomeini is born in Persia.
1920-1922: Arabs, both Shia and Sunni, revolt against British control of Iraq.
1922-1924: Kemal Ataturk abolishes the Ottoman sultanate and the Turkish Sunni caliphate.
1925: Reza Khan seizes power in Persia, declares himself Shah, establishing the Pahlavi dynasty.
1932: Iraq becomes an independent nation, under King Feisal, a Sunni Arab.
1935: Persia is renamed Iran.
1941: Reza Shah abdicates throne in favor of his son Mohammad Reza Shah. British and Soviet military forces occupy Iran.
1953: A joint CIA/British intelligence operation in Iran keeps the Shah on the throne and ousts nationalist Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh.
1963: Amid widespread protests in Iran against the Shah, Ayatollah Khomeini is arrested, then exiled to Najaf in Iraq.
1967: Israel defeats Egypt, Syria and Jordan in the Six Day War.
1968: The Baath Party seizes power in Iraq.
1973: Israel defeats Egypt and Syria in the Yom Kippur War.
1978-79: Widespread protests force the Shah to abdicate and flee Iran. Ayatollah Khomeini returns to Iran to lead the revolution.
1979: Saddam Hussein seizes power, becomes president of Iraq. Iranian revolutionary students seize the U.S. embassy in Tehran and take diplomats
hostage. They are released in January 1981.
1980: Saddam Hussein orders the Iraqi army to attack Iran.
1980-1988: Iran-Iraq war. Hundreds of thousands die on each side and the war ends in a stalemate.
1982: Israel invades Lebanon, seizes Beirut. Hezbollah is formed in Lebanon.
1983: Suicide truck bombers, believed to be Hezbollah, kill 241 American servicemen in Beirut.
1989: Ayatollah Khomeini dies in Iran.
1990: Saddam Hussein orders his army to seize Kuwait.
1991: The U.S. military ousts the Iraqi army from Kuwait. Shia of southern Iraq rebel against Saddam Hussein, who puts down the rebellion brutally.
Thousands of Shia are killed.
1991-2003: Iraq is placed under economic sanctions. U.N. weapons inspectors destroy most of Iraq's nuclear, biological and chemical weapons
2001: Al-Qaida, led by Sunni Muslim fundamentalists, mounts attacks in the United States, killing 3,000 people. The United States invades Afghanistan
and ousts the Sunni Taliban government.
2003: The U.S. military invades Iraq, topples Saddam. An Iraqi insurgency erupts, led by Sunni Baathists and al-Qaida.
2005-2006: Iraqi elections bring Shiite political parties to power in Baghdad, backed by Iran. Sunni-Shiite sectarian violence intensifies.
2005: Hard-line fundamentalist Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is elected president in Iran. Iran pursues acquisition of nuclear technology.
2006: War breaks out between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon. The U.N. Security Council imposes economic sanctions on Iran in response to nuclear
2007: The United States sends additional troops to Iraq.
Here is a present day break down of
the situation in Iraq between the parties involved.
As I stated in the other thread concerning this conspiratorial and ludicrous claim that the US is gearing up for war with Iran, somebody should
explain to our Generals that pulling/planning to pull our troops out of the region isn't a good way to start an invasion.
First off, there are too many members here who want the war in Iraq to continue even though it's over. If you miss all the war and mayhem may I
suggest watching all the countless old Youtube videos over and over again. Second, there seems to be a cheering section at ATS for a war with Iran
which by the way is due any second.
Could Iran pull off a military upset against the US?
Iran Invasion Plans
Scott Ritter Says Iran Attack in June
Iran plans to knock out U.S. with 1 nuclear bomb with electro-magnetic pulse
US prepares for Iran war with split Nato
War with Iran predictions
April 6 Sneak Attack On Iran
Israel seeks US green light for Iran attack -- report
Are we hours away from war with Iran??
Massive US naval armada heads for Iran
Military official: Iran digging 320,000 graves for invaders
U.S. Intel: Iran Plans Nuclear Strike On U.S.
Bush Plans On Attacking Iran Before Leaving Office!!! CNN Report!!!
Iran by December 2010
Israel vs Iran War Definitely before August 2009
There WILL be war with IRAN!