Economic Armageddon: Ladies and Gentlemen, the Double Dip is Here!

Originally posted by Mobius1974
reply to post by Ben81

 

When the SHTF... My game plan includes heading straight up through Canada.

I walleye fish on some property we own in Canada every year.. I love Canada...

in what province ??
Quebec ?
i love Canada but Quebec is the best for many reason
we have a 100 yrs old hockey team in the NHL the oldest one in the world .. and its pretty mix up here .. many nationality... all living in peace....its mostly French but also a lot of english people
we have our own china town lol
montreal downtown is very nice to ..
if you visit come see me

Originally posted by Ex_MislTech

The Chinese have found they can simply take the massive debt we
owe them and buy our politicians with it.

They can just buy our nation a little at a time.

I guess they read Sun Tze who said the ultimate victory is
when you can win without fighting.

That is how the Loral deal for advanced missile guidance systems was
done, and if you or I had done that deal we would be held for treason
for selling advanced guidance system tech for nuclear weapons to
a communist nation.

So china can take all these nations without firing a shot.

The city of Industry in California is basically their land now.

The port of Long Beach is basically their land now.

They own large shares of multi national corporations with offices
right here in the US.

All the goods that come to the US via COSCO is a never ending
revenue stream for them.

But not only due they ship the goods , they make the goods too.

The working conditions at the Iphone plant are so bad ppl jump
out the windows and kill themselves.

www.thefirstpost.co.uk...

Working conditions that are illegal here are used there to sell us
goods for a lower price, when they should be illegal.

The law should be that anyone selling goods in the US must do so
under the same laws that apply here.

For tickles and giggles they made fake IC chips to put in cisco
routers that ended up in the pentagon and the US government
and had a total back door into all US network traffic.

hardware.slashdot.org...

They did this to other nations as well.

www.independent.co.uk...

The war is already underway, and they are winning.

The truly hilarious part is all they have to do is buy off our corrupt
piece of turd politicians and they help them subvert our nations.

Based on how most ppl are distracted by bread and circuses
I might even go so far as to say the war is over, and we lost.

[edit on 28-8-2010 by Ex_MislTech]

There was one time back in the 80s when the exporting nation of Japan became hugely rich, and then started buying up properties and companies in US, Australia and around the world. Their Corporations did what the military failed in WW2 and many thought the Jap domination had became a reality.

Unfortunately, they failed, because of cultural issues. For example, when they bought over Hollywood, the execs fled enmass and the Japs presuming they were culturally and worth ethically superior, found they could not perform as well as the sale was supposed to bring.

It tanked, along with many other properties. In they end, they had to rehire back the natives to get their investments running again. The original sellers - the elite were laughing all the way to the bank.

Today, history repeat itself, with China attempting to dominate western industries. They have the money, and many of the greedy elites are more than willing to offload their brands to the chinese.

May the Chinese rich be more intelligent and discerning, because at the salaries the chinese workers are getting, there is no way they could afford the goods, nor the western world as well, for workers are laid off or have reduced salaries.

To think that the Chinese had won is premature. They should know what a dud they had gotten. But then these elites are just as greedy as their western counterparts.

Instead of sharing wealth with their workers, they hoarded it up to buy duds. A fool and his money will soon be parted. The ones who will gain the most are the greedy and unconcionable western elites.

I shed no tears for the chinese CCP rulers and their 30 million CCP member bootlickers. As for the masses, they too had woken up and are leaving cities and factories in droves for the countryside, or demanding better wages.

Thus the true enemy of humanity is not the Chinese masses, nor even the foolish corrupt CCP, but the greedy corporations. Just becareful when the war drums are beaten, and know who the real enemies are so that we do not end up being manipulated to kill our own brothers.

Originally posted by bluestar.ranch

Originally posted by jrmcleod

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I am of the opinion that the US needs this...we need to go flat broke...lose absolutely any and all ability to do anything, from a complete breakdown of governmental systems, to whatever else it takes.

At that point, the last straw will fall, and we will have to slash our military budget to a fraction..after living a couple years with no troops abroad, no weapons being invested in, etc etc etc, and living in general peace, we can rebuild without the concept that we need a hyper inflated military budget...just a tiny token force of nerds and robots to protect the homeland and that is it...let the rest of the world sort out their own problems and stop trying to find enemies to test new tech on...pretty simple.

If thats what it takes for America to start walking in the right direction, then so be it unfortunately.

Its not just this that needs to change in the US, its the US dream that needs to change. The dream that they are incharge and the best at everything. They are only percieved to be the best and strongest because they hide behind money. Its the American people i feel sorry for, they have been led down the rocky path of "live completely outta your means, live the hollywood dream".

What needs to happen is all world economy crashes, there is a world war to sort out all the crap and get rid of all governemts, we then retreat to our own plot of land, farm, trade and live in harmony without ever ever ever leting a king, governor, mayor, president or prime minieter ever be elected again.

Here here! well put... I am sooo rich rich RICH... ...living on my small farm... I would not trade the fresh air, birds singing.. roosters crowing, the train whistle all night... running creek...fresh canned food and eggs , well water, (no floride) home grown beef and chickens to eat.... well you see the picture. who can compare this to ANY mall, TV, or material items.....My life changed from a six figure city income to a poor country bumpkin when I "lost it all".... But I feel richer than ever.

God Bless USA and what is coming... We all need to get prepared and have a plan....

Sounds fantastic...i want one

I really cant wait for some thing like this to happen already. I'm not trying to be sadistic or anything like that, but I think its time for an eye opener. People are just out of touch or to busy or can't be bothered. Thats the problem everyone is to distracted to give a crap.

But put in a big monkey wrench like this and people start to listen and begin fixing things. It will never get better till we hit a rock bottom.

Is there anyone that can provide some concrete proof of this i would really like to know

This is interesting because the time wave project shows a steady decline in the economy up until the end of the year and a sharp drop off in January that surpasses levels we have never seen before. I don't have the link but you can check it out on Youtube.

Double dip my behind.

It has been one continuous slide since 2008.

The stock market may have recovered, but employment never has.

There is only one answer, and that is for the fed to stop trying to prop up things, and allow the deflationary forces to to do what they are going to do anyway. The longer the fed fights the inevitable re-balancing of the market caused by foolish supply side, investment driven, feed the rich economics, by allowing deflation to take place, the worse things are going to be.

Let the market collapse take place.

Originally posted by prophecywatcher
This is interesting because the time wave project shows a steady decline in the economy up until the end of the year and a sharp drop off in January that surpasses levels we have never seen before. I don't have the link but you can check it out on Youtube.

Well, as long as the time wave project says so. I wouldn't believe it any other way....and it's on Youtube...WOW! It must be TRUE!!!!

Guess I'll sell everything off and move to the hills.

reply to post by alchemist2012


You want proof? Just listen to the media. The economy is growing. Now they are talking about the possibility of a double dip. If you're unemployed or still have a reduced pay check, you're probably asking what recovery? It was a recovery driven by increased government spending on borrowed money. We'll have to pay that back or lose out even more with sky high inflation. I heard someone suggest that Obama was going to help destroy the US currency the same as other world currencies. How? By borrowing like there is no tomorrow until there is no tomorrow so that the US can not possibly pay back all the borrowed money. Then the elites can cause another international currency crisis and force all of us to accept a new world currency. Your money will have become worthless or only worth pennies on the dollar. I think that may still be a few years away. I'd rather not see it happen so the longer it gets delayed, that is fine with me.

reply to post by starseed33


Okay, panic attack on the side, the USA is vast with lots of farm land. My relatives say most of their product goes abroad to feed other nations.
So, it will be other nations that will starve first. Secondly, you can garden in a relatvely small space, save the seeds from foods you eat now. Wash them, dry them and save in envelopes. Start a compost pile for organic fertilizer. Lots of non traditional things are edible: pine cones, pine straw, kutzoo vines, acorns, etc. Get a book on wild things to eat. If push comes to shove Americans can do away with their grass lawns and plant gardens.
Buy mouse traps and eat roasted mouse. Learn to fish, crab, and catch shrimp. Learn to smoke meats and cure meats in salt. Buy a cow, goat,rabbits, and some chickens. I personally don't think the economy is that bad, we may have a temporary set back but people will always have needs for consumer products...stuff wears out.

Nice thread.

In Spain banks are actually getting into the real estate business, isn't that happening in US also? There is for example .Servihabitat.

About China... don't you think that they are also waiting to collapse? I mean China's growth has to do mainly with cheap labor. I understand that cheap labor in China means that there is people over there that are practically slaves. They do also have a medium-high social class growing so it'd probably reach a point when the low class majority will again rebel. And that would be it for China's economy. I might very well be wrong on this.

Lastly, let's assume US economy would collapse... Then what? I mean, there will still be people needing bread, there will still be people baking the bread and selling it. There will still be need for all the products and services that are needed today so there will still be supply... What it might quit existing might be the current level of speculation and all the jobs related to that, but apart of that I really fail to see more consequences. So if anyone feels like elaborating on this, please do.

Titanic Arrogance: Obama Is Sinking America

The United States of America is racing towards ruin at breakneck speed and her captain, President Barack Obama, seems blissfully ignorant of the peril he is piloting the nation towards.

As Obama traveled the country to beg Americans to vote Democrat last week, new images of the RMS Titanic’s wreck were published. Taken from three miles deep in the Atlantic, the photographs are further testament to a time when technological arrogance and Edwardian pride believed that government and industry could surmount all challenges.

When completed in 1911 the Titanic was considered the Eighth wonder of the World. Its captain, Edward J. Smith, boasted that the ship was unsinkable.

“I cannot imagine any condition which would cause a ship to founder. I cannot conceive of any vital disaster happening to this vessel. Modern shipbuilding has gone beyond that,” Smith said.

The Titanic’s aura of invincibility stemmed from the period; it was the onset of the 20th Century and men believed machinery could overcome all, even nature. This was a notion the populace, especially the traveling public, was eager to swallow.

Im i alone to see the similarities between the invicible Titanic and the mighty current USA ??
the 2-3 days trip of the Titanic cruisading in a rich environement is not so much different from the current condition the white house is living.. and Obama is the captain..
who was sleeping until the alarms went up about a GLACIER... RIGHT AHEAD !!!
the titanic trip was made of gold..diamants..marble..eating caviar on a hundred dollars plate
everybody on that ship was feeling invicible and safe
until faith crossed their destiny with a huge glacier...
again a calculated mystery life coincidence made the ship sink to the bottom of the ocean
with their gold and diamants..peoples sinking with them thousand of feet deep in the ocean...

This was a divine sign:
To avoid thinking you are invicible and superior to others
money doesnt make you invicible
this Titanic sinking sad event was a blow to the heart of Greed itself
has a reminder to anyone who would think they are more superior compare to others
hope people has learned because of the Titanic and .. hope people will learn from the USA mistakes thinking they were invicible

CNN: Poverty in the U.S. spikes

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The nation's poverty rate jumped to 14.3% in 2009, its highest level since 1994, and the 43.6 million Americans in need is the highest number in 51 years of record-keeping, the government said Thursday.

The Office of Management and Budget defined the poverty threshold level as less than $21,954 for a family of four in 2009. The poverty rate increased for all racial groups except Asians.

The jump, reported as part of a regular annual Census Bureau report on income, poverty and health insurance, was not unexpected. The U.S. economy went through a very rough 2009.

Many Americans lost their jobs. The unemployment rate jumped from 7.7% at the beginning of the year to 10.1% by October, before inching down to 10% the rest of the year.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4f133e013f17.gif[/atsimg]

Another sign of the obvious .. nothing is getting better
the US should cut 50% of the military budget if it care about their citizens
that would certainly help the economy BIG TIME
and it would make a advancment for the world peace possible

Market Watch

reply to post by Ben81


Your hockey team plays like its 100 years old!! Go WIngs!!!!! Detroit for the win in 2011!!! The return of Hudler!!!
2nd line

Doomsday warnings of US apocalypse gain ground

WASHINGTON — Economists peddling dire warnings that the world's number one economy is on the brink of collapse, amid high rates of unemployment and a spiraling public deficit, are flourishing here.

The guru of this doomsday line of thinking may be economist Nouriel Roubini, thrust into the forefront after predicting the chaos wrought by the subprime mortgage crisis and the collapse of the housing bubble.

"The US has run out of bullets," Roubini told an economic forum in Italy earlier this month. "Any shock at this point can tip you back into recession."

But other economists, who have so far stayed out of the media limelight, are also proselytizing nightmarish visions of the future.

Boston University professor Laurence Kotlikoff, who warned as far back as the 1980s of the dangers of a public deficit, lent credence to such dark predictions in an International Monetary Fund publication last week.

He unveiled a doomsday scenario -- which many dismiss as pure fantasy -- of an economic clash between superpowers the United States and China, which holds more than 843 billion dollars of US Treasury bonds.

"A minor trade dispute between the United States and China could make some people think that other people are going to sell US treasury bonds," he wrote in the IMF's Finance & Development review.

"That belief, coupled with major concern about inflation, could lead to a sell-off of government bonds that causes the public to withdraw their bank deposits and buy durable goods."

Kotlikoff warned such a move would spark a run on banks and money market funds as well as insurance companies as policy holders cash in their surrender values.

"In a short period of time, the Federal Reserve would have to print trillions of dollars to cover its explicit and implicit guarantees. All that new money could produce strong inflation, perhaps hyperinflation," he said.

"There are other less apocalyptic, perhaps more plausible, but still quite unpleasant, scenarios that could result from multiple equilibria."

According to a poll by the StrategyOne Institute published Friday, some 65 percent of Americans believe there will be a new recession.

And the view that America is on a decline seems rather well ingrained in many people's minds supported by 65 percent of people questioned in a Wall Street Journal/NBC poll published last week.

"It is true: Today's economic problems are structural, not cyclical," argued New York Times editorial writer David Brooks.

He said the United Sates is losing its world dominance much in the same way the British Empire began to crumble more than a century ago.

"We are in the middle of yet another jobless recovery. Wages have been lagging for decades. Our labor market woes are deep and intractable," Brooks said.

Nobel Economics Prize winner Paul Krugman also voiced concern about the fate of the fragile economic recovery if voters return the Republicans to political power.

"It's hard to overstate how destructive the economic ideas offered earlier this week by John Boehner, the House minority leader, would be if put into practice," he wrote in a recent editorial.

"Fewer jobs and bigger deficits -- the perfect combination."

The Wall Street Journal, usually more favorable to Boehner's call for tax cuts, ran a commentary from another Nobel Prize-winning economist -- Vernon Smith -- that failed to provide much comfort for readers.

"This fact needs to be confronted: We are almost surely in for a long slog," Smith wrote.

And it seems such pessimism has even filtered into the IMF, which warned on Friday that high levels of national debt and a still shaky financial sector threaten to derail the global economic recovery.

"The foreclosure backlog in US property markets is large and growing, in part due to the recent expiration of the home buyer's tax credit. When realized, this could further depress real estate prices."

This could lead to "disproportionate losses" for small and medium-sized banks, which could in turn "precipitate a loss of market confidence in the recovery," the IMF warned.

And we have this news from CNN :

Recession officially ended in June 2009

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The Great Recession ended in June 2009, according to the body charged with dating when economic downturns begin and end. But the news comes amid rising fears of a double-dip recession.

The National Bureau of Economic Research, an independent group of economists, released a statement Monday saying economic data now clearly points to the economy turning higher last summer.

That makes the 18-month recession that started in December 2007 the longest and deepest downturn for the U.S. economy since the Great Depression.

The NBER acknowledged the risk of double-dip recession in its statement, but said "The committee decided that any future downturn of the economy would be a new recession and not a continuation of the recession that began in December 2007. The basis for this decision was the length and strength of the recovery to date."

The committee that made the finding said it "did not conclude that economic conditions since that month have been favorable or that the economy has returned to operating at normal capacity." Rather, it decided that June was when the economy hit bottom, and that it has been slowly but steadily growing since then.

Which one to beleive ???
the NBER is own by the government ...
its not in their interest to show that the USA economy is seriously wounded

Its like in Irak in 2003-2004 when Bush declared mission OVER now its all good we have win the war

Its good for political lying that everything is good no trouble .. its a strategy to control the crowd with positive MSM... while all signs are pointing that its far from being over
the US economy can get crushed in a instant .. it is now SO FRAGILE
it can be influenced by negative foreign data in a second and freefall drop to hell..

I hope you all will be able to see through these uncertain times the clearing in front of us. It's a sad fact but only true change can happen when we hit rock bottom - that's just the way we are. There is always a light and you need to focus on how to help, rather than spreading fear. Together we need to make the medicine to cure our diseases and heal the entire planet as a whole. Remember who you are and that change is the only constant on this rollercoaster we call life. We are all here for a reason, especially right now! We need to work together and focus on the things that matter: love, laughter, life, beauty, family, friends, and joy. Let us not be beaten down by all of this trouble. Let's live in higher frequencies and teach by example

another expert pointing to the obvious :
i dont feel any progress .. the system is broken .. we need to change it before it broke the country to

Recession Not Over, Double-Dip or Worse Coming

Just last week, I ridiculed a group of academic economists for calling an end to the longest recession since World War II. The National Bureau of Economic Research proclaimed the recession we STILL find ourselves in ended in June of 2009. The NBER is the official arbiter of the timing of the U.S. business cycle. Well, I’m not the only person who thinks the NBER’s ascertainment of the economy defies all statistical evidence.

In his most recent report (it came out yesterday), economist John Williams of shadowstats.com says, “The official call of the recession’s end does not in any way alter the economic outlook, either as to existing underlying business activity or as to the course of likely future economic activity; only the nomenclature that will be used in describing current activity has been changed. The re-intensifying economic downturn — already underway — simply will be called the second-dip of a double-dip recession, at such time as the NBER gets around to recognizing the “new” contraction in economic activity.”

So, in my book, it’s “official” the recession is definitely NOT over, and it won’t be for a very long time.

Banks' $4 trillion debts are 'Achilles’ heel of the economic recovery', warns IMF

Lenders across Europe and the US are facing a $4 trillion refinancing hurdle in the coming 24 months and many still need to recapitalise, the Washington-based organisation said in its Global Financial Stability Report. Governments will have to inject fresh equity into banks – particularly in Spain, Germany and the US – as well as prop up their funding structures by extending emergency support.

“Progress toward global financial stability has experienced a setback since April ... [due to] the recent turmoil in sovereign debt markets,” the IMF said. “The global financial system is still in a period of significant uncertainty and remains the Achilles’ heel of the economic recovery.”

I think we got the msg .. we are in the last phase before the big depression make a full hit
they are to do something drastic ...legalise something or eliminate the millitary budget
it will save the USA from a economic collapse and the world from the USA military arrogance

reply to post by Ben81


I just noticed this post Ben.. sorry about the delay..
Its on lake Temiskaming
Lake Timiskaming (French: Lac Témiscamingue) is a large freshwater lake on the provincial border between Ontario and Quebec, Canada.The lake, which forms part of the Ottawa River, is 110 kilometres (68 mi) in length and covers an area of almost 295 km2 (114 sq mi). Its water level ranges between 175 m (574 ft) and 179 m (587 ft) above sea-level, with a mean annual average of 178.4 m (585 ft).[1] The lake is in places up to 216 m (709 ft) deep. There are several islands on the lake, notably Mann and du Collège Islands.

The walleye fishing is the best in the world IMHO.....

The collapse of the stock markets will be the first sign of "Economic Armageddon" When that happens the new rules will be set into place to reform governments and the people will call for it to get economies back going and get people back to work. That's the sad thing people will want what they are planning to do... I'm still amazed they are able to keep it afloat this long.