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There is nothing voluntary on anyone's part when wage garnishments happen so far as US federal law is concerned.
I can scarcely believe my eyes. Some of you going out of your way to defend theft as a moral act - as long as it is government and for the public good.
Sure. In exactly the same way that the US Constitution begins with the words "We the People of the United States" thus making crystal clear that the National Government is also "We the People. The authors of the U.S. Constitution didn't lose their democratic ideals when they were nominated to represent their states interests at the Constitutional Convention. They brought them with them.
Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There was never a democracy that did not commit suicide.
A Republic if you can keep it.
Can a democratic Assembly, who annually revolve in the mass of the people, be supposed steadily to pursue the public good? Nothing but a permanent body can check the imprudence of democracy. Their turbulent and uncontrolling dispositions requires checks.
Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.
Pure democracy, like pure rum, easily produces intoxication and with it a thousand pranks and fooleries.
The aspect of our politics has wonderfully changed since you left us. In place of that noble love of liberty, and republican government which carried us triumphantly through the war, an Anglican monarchical, and aristocratical party has sprung up, whose avowed object is to draw over us the substance, as they have already done the forms, of the British government. The main body of our citizens, however, remain true to their republican principles; the whole landed interest is republican, and so is a great mass of talents.
To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, ‘the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, & the fruits acquired by it.
The general object was to was to provide a cure for the evils under which the United States labored; that in tracing these evils to their origin, every man had found it in the turbulence and follies of democracy.
The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness which the ambitious call, and the ignorant believe to be liberty
A democracy is a volcano which conceals the fiery materials of its own destruction. These will produce an eruption and carry desolation in their way.”
In speculation he was a real republican, devoted to the Constitution and his country, and to that system of equal political rights on which it is founded. But between a balanced republic and a democracy, the real difference is like that between order and chaos.
At no time, at no place in solemn convention assembled, through no chosen agents, had the American people officially declared the United States to be a democracy. The Constitution did not contain the word or any word lending countenance to it...
Absolutely not. Both levels of Government are "the People".
On the contrary, Wikipedia is agreeing with me completely. Under the Articles of Confederation, the State Governments 'donated' to the National Government, sometimes.
You are deluded to think that voluntary fund raising had any important part to play in the funding of Government initiatives once the initial establishment of the settlements were assured.
This is the part that you are failing to understand: when the State Governments did 'donate' funds to the National Government, the State Governments levied taxes to raise those funds, in exactly the same way as Governments have levied taxes for ever.
All three of those citations enforce EXACTLY the point I made in my post and describe the major failing of the AofC, and the major reason for the Constitutional Convention.
Why is this hard for you to understand? The fact that, under the AofC, State Governments donations to the National Government were voluntary, doesn't make the taxes imposed by the State Governments magically become 'non-taxes' or voluntary donations by 'the people' as if they held a bake sale or something.
In an open democratic society, 'the people' understand that they need to contribute funds to the welfare of the whole society, for roads, for defense, for administration, for education, for charity, for whatever. I am sure you understand that. Taxes are voluntary NOT because you have the option of refusing to pay, but because that is the implicit agreement in a democratic society.
Any penalties applied to you for failure to pay your taxes are not violations of your 'right' to refuse to contribute, but are penalties for your violation of everyone else's 'right' to an equitable sharing of the burden of society.
Your argument is 100% diversionary. In a democratic society, 'the people' institute governments to administer the needs of the society as a whole, and those governments can raise taxes because 'the people' give consent for those taxes.
And by the way your assertion that the Constitution mentions two classifications of taxation has been incorrect since 1913. The 16th amendment essentially makes income tax a third classification. See below.
by the previous ruling it was settled that the provisions of the 16th Amendment conferred no new power of taxation, but simply prohibited the previous complete and plenary power of income taxation possessed by Congress from the beginning from being taken out of the category of indirect taxation to which it inherently belonged
The distinction odd because Income is odd. A tax applied to income from rents, dividends, interest, and the like is a direct tax. See Pollack v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Co (1895) , but a tax applied to normal 'wage' income is indirect.
When the Constitution was written it was not understood or considered much of a problem that someone could derive all their personal income from rents, dividends, and interest.
That is simple. In the Colonies we issue our own money. It is called Colonial Scrip. We issue it in proper proportion to the demands of trade and industry to make the products pass easily from the producers to the consumers. In this manner, creating for ourselves our own paper money, we control its purchasing power, and we have no interest to pay no one.
By the case stated, only one question is submitted to the opinion of this court; whether the law of Congress, of the 5th of June, 1794, entitled, 'An act to lay duties upon carriages, for the conveyance of persons,' is unconstitutional and void?
The great object of the Constitution was, to give Congress a power to lay taxes, adequate to the exigencies of government; but they were to observe two rules in imposing them, namely, the rule of uniformity, when they laid duties, imposts, or excises; and the rule of apportionment, according to the census, when they laid any direct tax.
I consider the Constitution to stand in this manner. A general power is given to Congress, to lay and collect taxes, of every kind or nature, without any restraint, except only on exports; but two rules are prescribed for their government, namely, uniformity and apportionment: Three kinds of taxes, to wit, duties, imposts, and excises by the first rule, and capitation, or other direct taxes, by the second rule.
I believe some taxes may be both direct and indirect at the same time. If so, would Congress be prohibited from laying such a tax, because it is partly a direct tax?
The Constitution evidently contemplated no taxes as direct taxes, but only such as Congress could lay in proportion to the census. The rule of apportionment is only to be adopted in such cases where it can reasonably apply; and the subject taxed, must ever determine the application of the rule.
If it is proposed to tax any specific article by the rule of apportionment, and it would evidently create great inequality and injustice, it is unreasonable to say, that the Constitution intended such tax should be laid by that rule.
It appears to me, that a tax on carriages cannot be laid by the rule of apportionment, without very great inequality and injustice. For example: Suppose two States, equal in census, to pay 80,000 dollars each, by a tax on carriages, of 8 dollars on every carriage; and in one State there are 100 carriages, and in the other 1000. The owners of carriages in one State, would pay ten times the tax of owners in the other. A. in one State, would pay for his carriage 8 dollars, but B. in the other state, would pay for his carriage, 80 dollars.
I am inclined to think, but of this I do not give a judicial opinion, that the direct taxes contemplated by the Constitution, are only two, to wit, a capitation, or poll tax, simply, without regard to property, profession, or any other circumstance; and a tax on LAND. I doubt whether a tax, by a general assessment of personal property, within the United States, is included within the term direct tax.
I never entertained a doubt, that the principal, I will not say, the only, objects, that the framers of the Constitution contemplated as falling within the rule of apportionment, were a capitation tax and a tax on land.
All taxes on expenses or consupmption are indirect taxes. A tax on carriages is of this kind, and of course is not a direct tax.
As all direct taxes must be apportioned, it is evident that the Constitution contemplated none as direct bus such as could be apportioned. If this cannot be apportioned, it is, therefore, not a direct tax in the sense of the Constitution.
Perhaps a direct tax in the sense of the Constitution, can mean nothing but a tax on something inseparably annexed to the soil: Something capable of apportionment under all circumstances.
Luther Martin, in his well-known communication to the legislature of Maryland in January, 1788, expressed his views thus: "By the power to lay and collect taxes, they (Congress), may proceed to direct taxation on every individual, either by a capitation tax on their heads, or an assessment on their property."
In the New York convention, Chancellor Livingston pointed out that when the imposts diminished and the expenses of government increased, "they (Congress) have recourse to direct taxes; that is, taxes on land, and specific duties."
In Virginia, Mr. John Marshall said: "The objects of direct taxes are well understood; they are but few; what are they? Land, slaves, stock of all kinds, and a few other article of domestic property."
100 years later and major portions of the economy were invisible to the tax base due to the rise of the industrial revolution and the robber barons.
When the Pollock case pointed out this anomaly, 'the People' gave consent to the government to tax any genuine income, however it was generated and without regard to census or enumeration.
So, income tax is BOTH an indirect tax and a direct tax, at the same time. I would say that in effect the 16th amendment makes it a third class mentioned in the constitution.
The Classifications Direct and Indirect (and Income) don't have anything to do with voluntary or not voluntary. They have to do with how 'the People' have limited the governments ability to apply taxes.
They are voluntary because as a democratic society we have given consent to the government to raise funds through taxation via the Constitution.
That is also true. But it has nothing to do with 'the people' having voluntarily given consent to the government to impose taxes in the first place, only with respect to WHICH indirect taxes an individual wishes to pay.
That much is at least true. They are voluntary because as a democratic society we have given consent to the government to raise funds through taxation via the Constitution.
Do you have a license to backpedal? Because you're not very good at it. Further, your insistence in attributing "democratic ideals" to the authors of the Constitution is just more disingenuous. Instead of taking your dubious words on the matter of the Founders "democratic ideals", let us take their words for it.
And yet it is you who chose to make the distinctions that it is was the states not the people who paid taxes to the federal government, and emphatically so by capitalizing the words STATES not the PEOPLE.
Whether you like it or not, and Wikipedia, among other sources, certainly supports this, that the federal government was completely reliant on voluntary fund raising, and regardless of how successful or unsuccessful that was it most assuredly has an important part to play in the funding of government initiatives once the initial establishment of the settlements were assured.
This is the part you are failing to understand: Regardless of who levied the taxes, those taxes were always paid by the people.
They also enforce the voluntary nature of federal taxes, a point you proclaimed the O.P. to be delusional on.
Why is this so hard for you to understand? The fact that, under the Articles of Confederation, State governments donations to the federal government were indeed voluntary, thus when any state did impose a tax to fund the federal government it was doing so by the consent of those who held the inherent political power, they being the people.
Further, the so called "weakness" of the Articles of Confederation were that the federal government was unable to repay its debts, a contention so steeped in acrimonious irony the stench can be smelled all the way from the Land Down Under to here in The United States. Are you not aware of the insurmountable debt the federal government faces today, with Congress having the complete and plenary power of taxation?
First of all, it is not the province of any government to function as a charity.
Secondly, indirect taxes are most certainly voluntary in that any person not wanting to pay the tax can avoid doing so by not engaging in the specific activity that is being taxed. This means people do have an option on whether they will pay the tax or not, and that is one of the Constitutional principles of taxation under the republic of which we stand, not the so called "democratic society" you hopelessly try to make it into.
Wrong again! Any penalties applied to a person for failure to pay their taxes are based upon liability, and not based upon any violation of everyone's "right" to an equitable sharing of the burden of society. If a person is liable for a tax, this means they are subject to any applicable revenue laws, and any penalties accrued come from failure to comply with those applicable revenue laws, and have nothing at all to do with the implied but non existent contract you are yammering on about.
Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Originally posted by earthdude
reply to post by mnemeth1
You have to use things the government provides. Think about it. How are you going to survive not using roads. Who is going to protect you against stronger enemies? No way can you live apart from it, there will always be something the government is giving you.
Think about your claims yourself. How did people survive before the roads were built? In all honesty, roads tend to be made by private persons, and it is highways, freeways, and streets that are made by government. If government weren't making these highways, freeways, and streets, somebody would be, as this is the nature of humanity.
Did the government protect all the people who have been murdered from their stronger enemies? Did they protect all those who have been raped from their stronger enemies? Did they protect all those who have been beaten from their stronger enemies?
In order for government to "give" anything, it must first take from someone else in order to do so.
There is no backpedaling involved. You are just having a hard time with your reading comprehension.
I'm not going to debate democracy with you because you have a warped idea of what the words mean. Suffice it to say that America is not a "pure" democracy and no one, least of all the founding fathers ever thought so. Jefferson in particular knew that 'pure' democracy was useless beyond the scope of a small community. The U.S. Constitution defines a "Representative" democracy. Until you can understand the difference between the two, and that we operate under the latter, there is really no point in discussing it.
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
By the way, have you checked to see how many of the quotes you display are from people arguing for an American monarchy to replace the British Monarchy? They lost the argument.
John Adams "puffed at 'seegars' and believed in monarchy,"
Shall we have a king? Not in my opinion while other experiments remain untried. Might we not have a governor-general limited in his prerogatives and duration? Might not Congress be divided into an upper and lower house--the former appointed for life, the latter annually--and let the governor-general ... have a negative on their acts?
Adams's Defence can be read as an articulation of the classical republican theory of mixed government. Adams contended that social classes exist in every political society, and that a good government must accept that reality. For centuries, dating back to Aristotle, a mixed regime balancing monarchy, aristocracy, and democracy—that is, the king, the nobles, and the people—was required to preserve order and liberty.
All good government is and must be republican. But at the same time, you can or will agree with me, that there is not in lexicography a more fraudulent word... Are we not, my friend, in danger of rendering the word republican unpopular in this country by an indiscreet, indeterminate, and equivocal use of it? [...] Whenever I use the word republic with approbation, I mean a government in which the people have collectively, or by representation, an essential share in the sovereignty... the republican forms in Poland and Venice are much worse, and those of Holland and Bern very little better, than the monarchical form in France before the late revolution.
If a majority are capable of preferring their own private interests, or that of their families, counties, and party, to that of the nation collectively, some provision must be made in the constitution in favour of justice, to compel all to respect the common right, the public good, the universal law in preference to all private and partial considerations." Again: "Of all possible forms of government, a sovereignty in one assembly, successively chosen by the people, is, perhaps, the best calculated to facilitate the gratification of self-love, and the pursuit of the private interests of a few individuals.
A republic, by which I mean a government in which the scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect and promises the cure for which we are seeking.
A popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy; or, perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance: And a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.
An elective despotism was not the government we fought for; but one in which the powers of government should be so divided and balanced among the several bodies of magistracy as that no one could transcend their legal limits without being effectually checked and restrained by the others.
True enough. I was drawing a distinction between the State Government and the People who instantiate that Government, meaning that when the State Government chose to fund the Confederation Congress, it did so by taxing the people of that state. The refusal by some of the State Governments to pay their fair share is one of the main reasons for the Constitutional Convention.
So you are saying that the Feds raised money by bake sales and car washes?
I have said, over and over again and your Wikipedia quote supports this:
I understand that perfectly. Who else would pay it? I am pointing out that it was taxes that raised the funds. Taxes are not Bake Sales or raffle tickets. You can't decide not to pay your tax like you can decide not to buy a raffle ticket.
I explained what 'voluntary' meant in relationship to the Confederation Congress fund raising under the Articles of Confederation above, so I'll skip that part.
Which part of 'no Federal power to tax' under the Articles did you misunderstand?
Under the Articles there were no Federal taxes - voluntary or otherwise.
Never-the-less the Articles of Confederation ceased to have effect at midnight 3 March 1789 and any sense of 'voluntary nature of federal taxes' along with it, except the implied voluntary nature of consent of the people.
Under the Constitution that applies today, the National Government most certainly has the authority to impose taxes , consented to by 'We the People'.
The granting of this consent is the only way that Federal Taxes or State Taxes can possibly be considered 'voluntary'.
The power to tax is the power to destroy
You got it! Congratulations! Gold Star! I am really happy that you understand at last.
OK. Don't get carried away, you are going off the deep end again. The Confederation Congress' debts were basically war loans for the War of Independence, back pay to soldiers, widows compensation, and the like. You are seriously saying that the Congress had no business incurring those debts, and the States should have rightly told them to go jump?
Further, the so called "weakness" of the Articles of Confederation were that the federal government was unable to repay its debts, a contention so steeped in acrimonious irony the stench can be smelled all the way from the Land Down Under to here in The United States. Are you not aware of the insurmountable debt the federal government faces today, with Congress having the complete and plenary power of taxation?
It is if 'the people' wish it too
It is unlikely that you can avoid all specific activities though. For instance it is unlikely that you can avoid the activity of earning an income.
You do not have the personal voluntary choice to pay or not pay income tax, 'the People' have already given consent to the National Government to impose income tax and it is not voluntary.
Our system of income taxation is based upon voluntary assessment and payment, not upon destraint.
Sigh. You don't have a right to renege on your taxes, your fellow citizens have a right to expect you to pay your fair share the same way that they do.
It is indeed an implied social contract, established when 'We the People' gave consent to the Government to impose taxation.
Originally posted by daddio
reply to post by daddio
NOTICE
PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTION ___ day of August, 2010
James Atchison, County Assessor
Minneapolis
A-2103 Government Center
300 South 6th Street
Minneapolis, MN 55487
Dear Mr. Atchison:
I am requesting to have my property removed from the property tax rolls for the following reasons:
1. 42 USC 1982 Property rights of citizens
2. 42 USC 1441 Congressional Declaration of National Housing Policy
3. 18 USC 241 Conspiracy Against Rights
4. 18 USC 242 Deprivation of rights Under Color of Law
5. Article 1 Section 1, Bill of Rights, Minnesota State Constitution
6. UCC-1 filing number 0987654321
7. UCC-3 filing number 1234567890
With explicit reservation of all my rights and without prejudice, per U.C.C. 1-207, 1-308
Sincerely,
John-Henry: Doe, Agent
c/o non-Domestic, Foreign mail near;
1234 47th Avenue N.
Anywhere, Minnesota republic
Zip code exempt (DMM 122.32), As Amended
Without the U.S.
Included; Power of Attorney in Fact
Zip Code Exemption
Sent that in over a month ago and haven't heard anything since. Haven't paid property taxes or a mortgage for almost a year now.
Know the truth.
Prove up your claim or cease and desist under the color of law against the Sovereign in the party.....ME!!!!!
Originally posted by rnaa
reply to post by truthquest
There is nothing voluntary on anyone's part when wage garnishments happen so far as US federal law is concerned.
Income tax withholding is not a wage garnishment though. It is a 'pay as you go' scheme, with benefits and drawbacks for both taxpayer and government.
If your only claim is that a wage garnishment is an extreme measure that is enforceable by law, then you don't really have an argument, because everyone agrees.
And by the way, in what way does my 'option 1' where John pays Jane the full amount and Jane settles in her own way at the end of the tax year, differ from your 'option 3' where John pays Jane the full amount and Jane settles in her own way at the end of the tax year?
The Constitution for the United States of America, in fact, guarantees each state a republican form of government:
As ardent as you may be in your belief that "fair shares" of taxes should be collected and paid, the Articles of Confederation were not abandoned in favor of the Constitution because of some notion of paying "fair share" of taxes, but instead it was argued that the debt the fledgling nation had accrued because of the Revolution for Independence needed to be paid. This reasoning seems to pale when compared to the national debt this nation faces today with a federal Constitution in place and Congress have all the taxing authority they need to pay off debts.
Yes, I can. In fact, due to the outrageous amount of taxation on cigarettes, I have largely stopped smoking, and in doing so declined to voluntarily pay the taxes on those cigarettes.
In reality, prior to saying it this time, you had said it once, which make this twice. Over and over again implies at least three times, but that is in reality, something you are not all that big on.
Oh there you go again, Mr. rnaa. First of all, try to stop being so disingenuous. Under the Articles of Confederation there was no federal government, there was a national government,
Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by rnaa
...
Why is this so hard for you to understand? The fact that, under the Articles of Confederation, State governments donations to the federal government were indeed voluntary...
and any taxes collected on behalf of that national government were largely voluntary in the form of indirect taxes.
Liar, liar, pants on fire! While there was some direct taxes levied by the federal government, there were mostly indirect taxes levied by Congress, and it has been well established that an indirect tax is voluntary, not by the nature of voluntary electing members to Congress, but by the ability to opt out of the tax by avoiding the activity that constitutes the taxed event.
My, my, my, you must be flustered, but you are surely confused. First you speak of federal taxes under the Articles of Confederation, and now you refer to the federal government as established by The Constitution as a national government. It is, technically speaking, a federal government adhering to the principles of federalism.
Say, for example, indirect taxation as another possible way to voluntarily pay a tax.
shortly afterward there was the Whiskey Rebellion, which even though an excise tax, and thus voluntary,
The principles of Constitutional taxation do not mean that the people, you have so disrespectfully place in quotation marks, give consent for what is implied any old tax Congress deems necessary. There are two classifications of taxes, direct, and indirect taxes, and one is subject to the rule of apportionment, and the other subject to the rule of uniformity.
This is yet another lie. The 16th Amendment did not give Congress any new power of taxation, nor did it place any new burden upon the people, and instead works in harmony with the Constitution and the principles of apportionment and uniformity.
The Pollack ruling is precisely why the 16th Amendment was passed, and it wasn't to create a "third" category of taxation, it was to force future courts to view a non-apportioned tax as an indirect tax.
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
At least you tell the truth regarding "normal" income taxes on wages, which are most assuredly an indirect tax, and an indirect tax that must describe some specific activity. There are no subjectless taxes, and all taxes have a subject.
There is no statue of the Code that indiscriminately makes all "wages' the subject of any tax.
100 years later and major portions of the economy were invisible to the tax base due to the rise of the industrial revolution and the robber barons.
You are being more than disingenuous by implying that personal income taxation was a standard tax base for the federal government.
In his dissent to the Pollock decision, Justice Harlan stated:
When, therefore, this court adjudges, as it does now adjudge, that Congress cannot impose a duty or tax upon personal property, or upon income arising either from rents of real estate or from personal property, including invested personal property, bonds, stocks, and investments of all kinds, except by apportioning the sum to be so raised among the States according to population, it practically decides that, without an amendment of the Constitution—two-thirds of both Houses of Congress and three-fourths of the States concurring—such property and incomes can never be made to contribute to the support of the national government.[8]
In a nation where the Federal government was beginning its battle against monopolies and trusts, where the great bulk of wealth was concentrated in the hands of a few, the decision in Pollock was unpopular, much like the decision in United States v. E. C. Knight Co., 156 U.S. 1 (1895) of the same year.
In fact,...since the Pollack Court struck down as unconstitutional the entire income portion of the Revenue Act of 1894
This is a gross misrepresentation of both the Pollack ruling, and the 16th Amendment.
You are attempting to imply that the 16th Amendment relieved Congress from the rule of apportionment regarding income, and this is false.
The 16th Amendment
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
Income tax is not BOTH an indirect tax and a direct tax, at the same time, and the 16th Amendment, as explained by both Brushaber and Stanton, was written to act harmoniously with the rule of apportionment, not to do away the rule.
Again this is false. Any indirect tax can be defeated by simply avoiding the event that is taxed. This makes that taxed event a voluntary tax.
A capitation or poll tax is not a voluntary tax, but we the people have given Congress consent to levy these kind of taxes. You are willfully lying is my guess.
US Federal income withholding is a 0% interest loan to the government. Therefore, the benefits are incredibly lopsided towards the government, as is the case with so many government programs.
My argument is not that wage garnishment is extreme or enforceable by law.
People can do extreme things and that is just fine. People can enforce a law against someone who is harming another person and that is just fine with me. What isn't fine, and what my argument is, is that wage garnishment is simply a less nasty sounding name for petty theft. By exploiting an uninvolved party the government invokes two thefts rather than one theft.
The option 1 you listed on the previous page of this thread included various suggestions for Jane to spend the money in a specific way such as a savings account. Under option 3, John simply does not provide any input at all into what Jane will do with the $20 and simply hands it over to her. And of course that should be the norm for any employer as it is not the employers business what their employees are doing with their money and considered.
Second, there are three classifications of taxes: direct, indirect, and income. Dissemble all you want, income tax has both direct and indirect components and the effect of the 16th Amendment marks it as a class of its own.
In fact, the two great subdivisions embracing the complete and perfect delegation of the power to tax and the two correlated limitations as to such power were thus aptly stated by Mr. Chief Justice Fuller in Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & T. Co. 157 U. S. supra, at page 557: 'In the matter of taxation, the Constitution recognizes the two great classes of direct and indirect taxes, and lays down two rules by which their imposition must be governed, namely: The rule of apportionment as to direct taxes, and the rule of uniformity as to duties, imposts, and excises.'
It is to be observed, however, as long ago pointed out in Veazie Bank v. Fenno, 8 Wall. 533, 541, 19 L. ed. 482, 485, that the requirements of apportionment as to one of the great classes and of uniformity as to the other class were not so much a limitation upon the complete and all-embracing authority to tax, but in their essence were simply regulations concerning the mode in which the plenary power was to be exerted.
In the whole history of the government down to the time of the adoption of the 16th Amendment, leaving aside some conjectures expressed of the possibility of a tax lying intermediate between the two great classes and embraced [240 U.S. 1, 14] by neither, no question has been anywhere made as to the correctness of these propositions.
Moreover, in addition, the conclusion reached in the Pollock Case did not in any degree involve holding that income taxes generically and necessarily came within the class [240 U.S. 1, 17] of direct taxes on property, but, on the contrary, recognized the fact that taxation on income was in its nature an excise entitled to be enforced as such unless and until it was concluded that to enforce it would amount to accomplishing the result which the requirement as to apportionment of direct taxation was adopted to prevent, in which case the duty would arise to disregard form and consider substance alone, and hence subject the tax to the regulation as to apportionment which otherwise as an excise would not apply to it.
'The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.' It is clear on the face of this text that it does not purport to confer power to levy income taxes in a generic sense,-an authority already possessed and never questioned, [240 U.S. 1, 18] -or to limit and distinguish between one kind of income taxes and another, but that the whole purpose of the Amendment was to relieve all income taxes when imposed from apportionment from a consideration of the source whence the income was derived.
...the Amendment was drawn for the purpose of doing away for the future with the principle upon which the Pollock Case was decided; that is, of determining whether a tax on income was direct not by a consideration of the burden placed on the taxed income upon which it directly operated, but by taking into view the burden which resulted on the property from which the income was derived, since in express terms the Amendment provides that income taxes, from whatever source the income may be derived, shall not be subject to the regulation of apportionment.
...the contention that the Amendment treats a tax on income as a direct tax although it is relieved from apportionment and is necessarily therefore not subject to the rule of uniformity as such rule only applies to taxes which are not direct, thus destroying the two great classifications which have been recognized and enforced from the beginning, is also wholly without foundation
the command of the Amendment that all income taxes shall not be subject to apportionment by a consideration of the sources from which the taxed income may be derived [240 U.S. 1, 19] forbids the application to such taxes of the rule applied in the Pollock Case
This must be unless it can be said that although the Constitution, as a result of the Amendment, in express terms excludes the criterion of source of income, that criterion yet remains for the purpose of destroying the classifications of the Constitution by taking an excise out of the class to which it belongs and transferring it to a class in which it cannot be placed consistently with the requirements of the Constitution. Indeed, from another point of view, the Amendment demonstrates that no such purpose was intended, and on the contrary shows that it was drawn with the object of maintaining the limitations of the Constitution and harmonizing their operation.
the Amendment contains nothing repudiation or challenging the ruling in the Pollock Case
...the contention that the Amendment treats a tax on income as a direct tax although it is relieved from apportionment and is necessarily therefore not subject to the rule of uniformity as such rule only applies to taxes which are not direct, thus destroying the two great classifications which have been recognized and enforced from the beginning, is also wholly without foundation ...
Why do you have to be so hyperbolic and call every difference of opinion a lie. I did not lie, nor did I even give an opinion. I related a fact and what I said and what you said are not incompatible in any way.
And by the way your assertion that the Constitution mentions two classifications of taxation has been incorrect since 1913. The 16th amendment essentially makes income tax a third classification. See below.
by the previous ruling it was settled that the provisions of the 16th Amendment conferred no new power of taxation, but simply prohibited the previous complete and plenary power of income taxation possessed by Congress from the beginning from being taken out of the category of indirect taxation to which it inherently belonged
In effect, the 16th amendment did exactly that, create a third category of taxation in the Constitution. It doesn't reference the courts in any way, it grants Congress the power to impose a tax on income derived from any source whatever, and removes any confusion about apportionment or enumeration. Period.
but, on the contrary, recognized the fact that taxation on income was in its nature an excise entitled to be enforced as such
with respect to
with regard to; concerning
Excises are taxes laid upon the manufacture, sale, or consumption of commodities within the country, upon licenses to pursue certain occupations and upon corporate privileges; the requirement to pay such taxes involves the exercise of the privilege, and if business is not done in the manner described, no tax is payable.
The Sixteenth Amendment does not extend the power of taxation to new or excepted subjects, but merely removes occasion for apportioning taxes on income among the states.
A tax laid upon the happening of an event, as distinguished from its tangible fruits, is an indirect tax which Congress, in respect of some events not necessary now to be described more definitely, undoubtedly may impose.
The right to labor and to its protection from unlawful interference is a Constitutional, as well as common law right. Every man has a natural right to the fruits of his industry.
The subject matter of taxation open to the power of the Congress is as comprehensive as that open to the power of the states, though the method of apportionment may at times be different. "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises." Art. I, Section 8. If the tax is a direct one, it shall be apportioned according to the census or enumeration. If it is a duty, impost, or excise, it shall be uniform throughout the United Sates.
Together, these classes include every form of tax appropriate to sovereignty. [Citations ommitted] Whether the tax is to be classified as an "excise" is in truth not of critical importance. If not that, it is an "impost" [Citations omitted], or a "duty" [Citations omitted]. A capitation or other "direct" tax it certainly is not.
The income tax is, therefore, not a tax on income as such. It is an excise tax with respect to certain activities and privileges which is measured by reference to the income which they produce. The income is not the subject of the tax: it is the basis for determining the amount of the tax.
So 'exchanging labor for a wage' is not a specific enough activity? Says who? A wage is a "compensation for labor" and any compensation received for that provided labor is earned income. This argument is particularly specious. Wages is income. Period.
I know you have a whole armory of argument based on this particular point, but since this point is a false, your entire argument falls apart.
You are, perhaps right on that specific point, but because wages is income and the 16th amendment gives Congress the power to tax income doesn't make any difference.
Income tax is legal, and not voluntary, except in my sense of 'consent' and to the extent you can exist without earning any income (and even then you are paying tax, but the amount paid is zero).
Just pay your taxes, OK.
How does it feel to be the lick-spittle of Rupert Murdoch, David Koch, and the other Robber Barons of the modern day on this issue by the way?
An argument for repeal of the 16th is not an argument for an end of Income Tax on ordinary wages, no matter how you want to spin it, it is a fraud on the average wage earner.
No it isn't. It is a precise and accurate summary.
When the Pollock case pointed out this anomaly, 'the People' gave consent to the government to tax any genuine income, however it was generated and without regard to census or enumeration.
No, I'm not "attempting to imply" anything of the sort. I'm openly asserting it. And it is absolute fact.
Tax on Wages Income has never needed to be apportioned or enumerated before or after the 16th.
Tax on Rent Income, Dividend Income, etc did need to be apportioned and enumerated before the 16th and do not need to be so after the 16th.
It will thus be seen that whenever the government has imposed a tax which it recognized as a direct tax, it has never been applied to any objects but real estate and slaves.
In Veazie Bank v. Fenno (supra), the tax which came under consideration was one of ten per cent upon the notes of State banks paid out by other banks, State or National. The same conclusions were reached by the court as in the preceding case. Mr. Chief Justice Chase delivered the opinion of the court. In the course of his elaborate examination of the subject he said, 'It may be rightly affirmed that, in the practical construction of the Constitution by Congress, direct taxes have been limited to taxes on land and appurtenances and taxes on polls, or capitation taxes.'
a. A share of a surplus; a bonus.
In Scholey v. Rew (23 Wall. 331), the tax involved was a succession tax, imposed by the acts of Congress of June 30, 1864, and July 13, 1866. It was held that the tax was not a direct tax, and that it was constitutional and valid. In delivering the opinion of the court, Mr. Justice Clifford, after remarking that the tax there in question was not a direct tax, said: 'Instead of that, it is plainly an excise tax or duty, authorized by sect. 1, art. 8, of the Constitution, which vests the power in [102 U.S. 586, 602] Congress to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and public welfare.'
He said further: 'Taxes on houses, lands, and other permanent real estate have always been deemed to be direct taxes, and capitation taxes, by the express words of the Constitution, are within the same category; but it has never been decided that any other legal exactions for the support of the Federal government fall within the condition that unless laid in proportion to numbers the assessment is invalid.'
The first question to be considered is whether a tax on the rents or income of real estate is a direct tax within the meaning of the constitution. Ordinarily, all taxes paid primarily by persons who can shift the burden upon some one else, or who are under no legal compulsion to pay them, are considered indirect taxes; but a tax upon property holders in respect of their estates, whether real or personal, or of the income yielded by such estates, and the payment of which cannot be avoided, are direct taxes.
Our conclusions are, that direct taxes, within the meaning of the Constitution, are only capitation taxes, as expressed in that instrument, and taxes on real estate; and that the tax of which the plaintiff in error complains is within the category of an excise or duty. Pomeroy, Const. Law, 177; Pacific Insurance Co. v. Soule, and Scholey v. Rew, supra.
That is the exact accomplishment of the 16th amendment.
Which part of the amendment are you having trouble reading?