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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Originally posted by Baloney
The Antichrist was NERO CAESAR, the END.
there are still many other possibilites of who or what the beast is and may be. your response was a little single minded i think.
Originally posted by lestweforget
This is the catalist for a massive upheaval of the earths crust and possible
tilting of the earths axis, changing land masses and oceans as we know them.
Could this be an explanation for a beast rising from the sea?
Ford has expounded the "apotelesmatic principle" - that there can be multiple fulfillments of prophecy. He no longer supports the year-day principle of prophetic interpretation, although he had supported it earlier in his commentary on Daniel.
He believed Paul tried unsuccessfully to unite the two groups (Romans 14:5-7). This historical approach led him to reject the Sabbath. He published Sabbatarianism Re-examined in 1981 attacking the Sabbath. This led to a response by Desmond Ford, and then further dialogue between the pair in Spectrum magazine. Ford described it as the strongest case against the Sabbath he had ever seen, also describing Brinsmead as "a very intelligent man.
1CO 3:5 What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe--as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. 7 So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8 The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.
1KI 10:14 The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents, 15 not including the revenues from merchants and traders and from all the Arabian kings and the governors of the land."
1KI 10:23 King Solomon was greater in riches and wisdom than all the other kings of the earth. 24 The whole world sought audience with Solomon to hear the wisdom God had put in his heart. 25 Year after year, everyone who came brought a gift--articles of silver and gold, robes, weapons and spices, and horses and mules.
Originally posted by DISRAELI
Would the "Beast of Revelation" also be the "king who occupies the Temple", as found in other parts of the Bible?
And if so, in what way?
That's the connection I'm going to be considering.
Originally posted by pthena
In further posts I shall endeavor to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Christian Zionism is the anti-Christ of today, and that their mad schemes of having a stone temple built in Jerusalem endangers the existence of all life on earth.
Originally posted by Komodo
As many times as I've read Revelations, it occurred to me that what John was seeing was NOT a physical occurrence.. but spiritual one perhaps. We all think in the physical because we are physical beings, it's just natural.
However, DISRAELI, they ARE building the temple as we speak.. and that says a lot as well..
AS far as the interpretation for John's own time is concerned, I'm coming to the view that;
The Harlot is Rome the city
The first Beast is Rome the Empire
The second Beast is the Emperor.
Applying the interpretation to a later time then involves distributing those three concepts.
According to Ford's apotelesmatatic principle, prophecies are repeatedly fulfilled, not exactly the same way, so one to one comparisons are not required or even desired in issues concerned with the present.
It is part of the nature of Christianity that each generation views itself as the last generation, the generation that looks forward to witnessing the "final climax", the "end of history".
Originally posted by St Udio
First Beast=this will be an 'empire' built on a cult of Personality, a singular individual
2nd Beast=the False Prophet, (the Pope is the Vicar, The Maitreya is the bringer of the word ~which might equate to Prophet~
there are several religions in the world which have a 'Prophet'='Servant'
of the GOD as their messenger, so i'd look at one of those powerful religions to be the source of the end-time FalseProphet from the Land,
I wasn't in a position to talk about the plans of Christian Zionism in the OP because I know almost nothing about the movement apart from occasional allusions on this site. You know from the end of the OP that I see no necessity to expect a new physical temple.
By assessing the Jewish state's entitlement to territory in the light of the Old Testament promises God made to Abraham, Christian Zionists are aiding and abetting the activities of a highly motivated minority of right-wing and religious Jews in both Israel and America who oppose the establishing of a Palestinian state and so all peace plans. In this way and via American ballot box Christian Zionists are pouring more fuel on the flames of the dispute that lies at the heart of the Muslim world's sense of grievance against the West, and at the heart too, most would say, of the West's current struggle against Islamic fundamentalism.
None of the issue's fiendish complexity, none of its tragic and growing intractability, interests Christian Zionists. Millions of devout American Christians will never retreat from their unconditional support for the greatest of all possible Israels because they believe it is God's will. A poll conducted by Pew Forum of Religion and Public Life in July 2006 found that 42 per cent of all Americans believe 'Israel was given to the Jewish people by God' and 35 per cent believe that Israel is 'part of the fulfillment of biblical prophecy about the Second Coming of Jesus. In 2006 a Zogby International poll tightened up the question of Israel's biblical claim to the land and found that 31 per cent of Americans either 'strongly believe' or 'believe' that Israel must have all the promised land, including Jerusalem, in order to facilitate the Second Coming
Victoria Clark, Allies For Armageddon: The Rise of Christian Zionism, pg 5, Yale University Press, copyright 2007
Two thousand years ago, the Jews were sent into exile by God's decree, where they must remain until they are redeemed by God, as He has assured them through the prophets. The idea of a return to the country prematurely, without divine redemption, is wrong. In view of this, the Land of Israel belongs to those who have lived there for hundreds of years: the Palestinians.
The idea of a premature return was first conceived of by the Zionists, who at the beginning were a small Godless group, completely rejected by mainstream Jewry. They forced their plan upon the Jewish world through years of political maneuvering. Their slogan was that the Jewish people would finally stop waiting for divine salvation. "It is now time to take our destiny into our own hands," they said. "We must forget our past; we must leave behind the Divine message and the ancient role of the Jewish people in the world. Israel, the people of the Bible, must be transformed into a secular nation."
. . .
Now we are being given a unique, perhaps last chance to end the Zionist state on our own initiative, because if we do not, God will do it - the same God who sent His people into exile. He wants His people redeemed not by the Zionists but by Him alone, as He has repeatedly announced through the prophets. There is no getting around God's plan. Therefore, let us have the insight to put the solution into action under all circumstances. There is no time to lose!
Neturei Karta has a Solution to the Middle-East Problem
Originally posted by deadred
but aren't the Elect of God those who were chosen before the Foundation of the Earth?
If this is so, wouldn't God's true nation of Isreal be those who were scattered among the Nations from the 12 Tribes to the four corners of the Earth?
If the Third Temple can be viewed as both Real and Symbolic, might not the true nation of Isreal be symbolic as well, in a geographic sense?