Is Jesus your personal beast of burden?

Is Jesus your personal beast of burden?

Here are a few links where the authors think that vicarious redemption or blood atonement is immoral. I tend to agree with them.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.truegnosticchurch.org...

www.thenazareneway.com...

www.evilbible.com...

acimmessages.blogspot.com...



Believers should know that a hero is carried by his fans and not the other way around.

If getting into heaven can only be done by profiting from the murder of an innocent Jesus then heaven is an immoral place.

Do you see God pleased with everyone riding on the shoulders of an innocent victim to get into heaven?

I see God wanting to see all sinners carrying Jesus as a hero and not a beast of sinners burdens.

Who should bear the blame for sins? Jesus or the sinner?

Who would likely wants to see Jesus bent to the ground burdened by the responsibilities of sinners?

God or Satan?

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am

Do you think it is immoral that babies should allow their parents to carry them around?
Just because babies don't have the power of walking?

reply to post by Greatest I am


I understand what you're saying, but the way you describe it is different from the actual nature of Jesus' sacrifice. Jesus is not a separate entity from God or just a "victim," he is God's son, and part of God himself. So when God accepted Jesus' punishment in place of ours, in a way he was taking the punishment for our sins himself. I don't think you can say there is anything immoral about taking the place of someone who wronged you, or forgiving someone of their debt to you.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Do you think it is immoral that babies should allow their parents to carry them around?
Just because babies don't have the power of walking?

Yes if they are carried so long that their legs atrophy like your brain and morals have.

The penalty that your scapegoat supposedly died for is one that he was imposing himself.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by HarvestMoon
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

I understand what you're saying, but the way you describe it is different from the actual nature of Jesus' sacrifice. Jesus is not a separate entity from God or just a "victim," he is God's son, and part of God himself. So when God accepted Jesus' punishment in place of ours, in a way he was taking the punishment for our sins himself. I don't think you can say there is anything immoral about taking the place of someone who wronged you, or forgiving someone of their debt to you.

So a rape victim is the one who should be jailed if your policy is sound.

Where is it written that an immortal God can somehow die?

You need to see this and revue your silly literalist views.

www.dailymotion.com...

Regards
DL

Okay OP. you've presented a stinging prosecution. Now it's time for the defense to present it's case before the jury. Are you willing to do what you've asked us all to do and watch the defense's arguments?


Why did Jesus come to Earth?

Jesus died in our place.

Jesus died to crush our enemies.

Jesus took our wrath.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Okay OP. you've presented a stinging prosecution. Now it's time for the defense to present it's case before the jury. Are you willing to do what you've asked us all to do and watch the defense's arguments?


Why did Jesus come to Earth?

Jesus died in our place.

Jesus died to crush our enemies.

Jesus took our wrath.

He did! He really really did!

www.dailymotion.com...

You have presented biblical quote to go against my biblical quotes.

Would you like to go into a logic and reason debate now or will we just continue to thump at each other?

If I may present my first piece of evidence.
A point of logic and fairness statement.

It is up to the victim of sin to forgive that sin when possible as in the Hebrew customs of which the Bible is based on.
Once forgiven for that sin by the victim, God has no role to play.
A sin does not need to be forgiven twice.

Regards
DL

It Seams to me that you forget what Jesus sacrifice was for. And if you trying to prove that Christianity is wrong this is a weak way to prove it.

Actually I kinda agree with your premise (although I haven't checked any of your links, sorry ).

This is one of the major problems I have with Christianity, and one that is the reason I am not a Christian today (at least in the traditional sense of Christianity).

Some people may bring up "the Crusades", or "Christians are against evolution", or "Christianity is against science", but these are all side issues, and not relevant to the core of Christianity.

I find the very core of (traditional) Christian thought to be theologically (and otherwise) illogical:
Why should MY sins, MY mistakes be the responsibility of ANYONE other than MYSELF? How can I morally toss them off and hand them to a completely innocent bystander, a third party, who I have so much respect for? Considering how much Christ was supposed to have suffered during the Passion, *I* do not want to have to add MY burden on that as well.

Well, that, and the concept of the Original Sin.

[edit on 25-8-2010 by babloyi]

Originally posted by slymattb
It Seams to me that you forget what Jesus sacrifice was for. And if you trying to prove that Christianity is wrong this is a weak way to prove it.

I do not have to prove anything.

www.youtube.com...

It has to prove it's worth and as the numbers decline that believe in it, it will die.

As it should if it does not lose it's literalists.

The God of some that it created will return as He was. The God of all.

It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are Religionists.
They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief. They make us all into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a God but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Belief in fantasy is evil.

www.youtube.com...

They also do much harm to their own.

African witches and Jesus
www.youtube.com...

Jesus Camp 1of 9
www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

Originally posted by babloyi
Actually I kinda agree with your premise (although I haven't checked any of your links, sorry

).

This is one of the major problems I have with Christianity, and one that is the reason I am not a Christian today (at least in the traditional sense of Christianity).

Some people may bring up "the Crusades", or "Christians are against evolution", or "Christianity is against science", but these are all side issues, and not relevant to the core of Christianity.

I find the very core of (traditional) Christian thought to be theologically (and otherwise) illogical:
Why should MY sins, MY mistakes be the responsibility of ANYONE other than MYSELF? How can I morally toss them off and hand them to a completely innocent bystander, a third party, who I have so much respect for? Considering how much Christ was supposed to have suffered during the Passion, *I* do not want to have to add MY burden on that as well.

Well, that, and the concept of the Original Sin.

[edit on 25-8-2010 by babloyi]

I understand and even if I sound a bit like an atheist, I am not.
We are in the same camp but just have a different view. Do try those links and they will explain much. That or at least, become like me. A Deist without a creator God.

God began as a sun before man made him a son.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


No,infact you (not just speaking to writer) are jesus's burden,such a burden terrible things happened to him.
to understand this you have to understand that time and space are connected through a spider web like network.

reply to post by spokthunder


Ya ya, spider web.
Now you think silk comes out of your God's ass.
Smooth.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am

It is up to the victim of sin to forgive that sin when possible as in the Hebrew customs of which the Bible is based on.
Once forgiven for that sin by the victim, God has no role to play.

Really? "No role"? But Psalms states we sin against God and Him alone:

"Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, be clear when thou judgest." Psalms 51:4

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

It is up to the victim of sin to forgive that sin when possible as in the Hebrew customs of which the Bible is based on.
Once forgiven for that sin by the victim, God has no role to play.

Really? "No role"? But Psalms states we sin against God and Him alone:

"Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, be clear when thou judgest." Psalms 51:4

Quite the God who will sit there and let himself be raped while watching a real rape.

Is that what you would do?

Does he feel every stoke like the victim does while he watches and does nothing?

When someone steals money, does he do without something like the real victim does?

Think about it and discard your foolish notion of God being sinned against.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


He is the author of the commands we violate when we sin.

We may hurt our fellow man, but we only sin against God.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

He is the author of the commands we violate when we sin.

We may hurt our fellow man, but we only sin against God.

Ok. I guess that is why he is always killing us in the O T.

Quite the God of love you have there.

Say HEIL for me when you see that genocidal maniac.

Regards
DL