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Questioning Official Sources

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posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 10:01 AM
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This is a general conspiracy-related question.

When the topic of conspiracies/paranormal/UFOs/alternative medicine are discussed, they are thorougly questioned and presumed "false" right off-the-bat by a skeptical public. No matter how much evidence is shown, no matter how much data, these topics are held to an extreme amount of scrutiny.

But when we get "official information" from the govt, the media, the police,
the army, our pulpits, our teachers, our doctors--from people in mainstream authority--the public more often than not either accepts it right-off-the-bat as true, or maybe grudgingly questions it a little bit & then stops caring & accepts it.

Examples:
1. Our doctor gives us a medication & says, take this for the rest of your life--how many of us do independent research on this medication before making the commitment (or at least give the doctor a whole battery of questions)?
2. Our government tells us that "unemployment is down" or "this tax plan will benefit you" or "we are going to war for xyz & this will make you safer"--how much of the public passively accepts this information simply because the government told them so?
3. Our minister will say: "do xyz because the Bible, which is the word of God, tells us so." -- how many parishoners have ever studied the history of the Bible & the church?
4. Our news-source of choice says: "this horrible thing happened because an official source says this group did it." What is the proof? Is the proof because the "official source" told us so? Aren't we operating on a bit of blind faith & the belief that the media & the "official sources" have nothing but our best interests & the Truth in mind?

Why do we as a society not bring our faculties of critical thinking to bear?
Do you have any idea how easy it is to manipulate the minds & emotions of the public this way? And why are people who use critical thinking & ask pointed questions in these situations considered "kooks," "radicals," & "troublemakers"?

We have a brain, & we have myriad sources of research & data at our fingertips. Let's investigate all sides. When we find ourselves believing something that really has no real "proof" behind it other than the words of people in authority, lets stop for a second & reassess.



[edit on 19-6-2004 by Cassie Clay]




posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 10:06 AM
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In the modern world, we lead such busy lives that we have to assume that what our doctors tell us is right even though they are only human. I believe most would find it hard to question everything they were told when it comes from reliable sources.



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by Hyperen
In the modern world, we lead such busy lives that we have to assume that what our doctors tell us is right even though they are only human.


The human cost of medical errors is high. Based on the findings of one major study, medical errors kill some 44,000 people in U.S. hospitals each year. Another study puts the number much higher, at 98,000. Even using the lower estimate, more people die from medical mistakes each year than from highway accidents, breast cancer, or AIDS.
--Institute of Medicine, 2000
www.iatrogenic.org...



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by Cassie Clay
The human cost of medical errors is high. Based on the findings of one major study, medical errors kill some 44,000 people in U.S. hospitals each year. Another study puts the number much higher, at 98,000.


Mistakes do cost many lives but doctors aren't perfect :- as we often forget, doctors aren't superheros, they are just humans. Sure mistakes are bad but doctors surely save many more lives. Maybe some of the mistakes can be preventable but some are going to be inevitable because of the human factor involved.

When I say doctors, I mean nurses and other healthcare professionals too.



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 10:37 AM
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You actually answered this yourself I think when you said,
Do you have any idea how easy it is to manipulate the minds & emotions of the public this way?.

People are Brainwashed!! There is another thread here talking about Mind Control recently that would apply here. When we think of Mind Control we think of Spooky Top Secret Brain Wave machines being controlled from some military base or something. (Which may also be true actually.)
However, there are much more obvious and dangerous signs of Mind Control going on all around us all the time to the point where it seems normal, which in itself is another part of Mind Control we are all under. Let's look at some more examples, similar to yours, shall we??

Here is a Mega-Big-Daddy one for ya, and one of my personal favorites:
1.) Ownership: Is it real? Does Ownership exist, independently of just being a little collective fantasy that we all are caught up in?? I'll tell ya, it's not real folks. Ownership is actually a completely conjured up fantasy, an illusion that people have created, accepted, refined and believe without questioning it's validity. Let me show you what I mean.

The reality of it, is that Ownership is a lie, whereas Possession can be a fact. Ownership is a concept, whereas Possession can be an actual event regardless of any intellectual understanding. Think of everything you 'Own' for example. Like your car, house, or even your clothes or a simple pencil or pen. Now, what does it mean to 'Own' that thing? If it is not actually in your physical 'Possession' right now, what makes it 'Yours'?

You say you have a receipt, or a deed or Bill of Sale which proves it's yours, huh? Well, how do those make it owned by You? You say by Authority of So and So or the Law of These Guys and Partners or whatever, huh? Well so what, I say, I've never heard of such things so it might as well be the law of 'Finders vs. Keepers' cause that is all that matters. You see Government, Law, Authority, Documentation of anything, and all other similar poofs to show Ownership of something are also just Illusions we collectively pretend are Real Things. The fact is all you can do is possess certain objects and once you don't possess it, it is simply up for grabs. In fact this whole idea never enters the minds of most Western Society while Eastern Buddhists would consider it common knowledge and found on page 1, line 1 of the book of Reality.

Ownership as well as about a Trillion other 'CONCEPTS' are nothing but the elements of Mind Control. How about Value for example? Does anything have a True Value that could be said for certain? On a personal level sure, but even that changes very quickly for any number of reasons. Food is very valuable when you are hungry, but after eating so much you're going to puke you'll give it away. So, back to ownership, it is nothing but a Collective Lie or Fantasy World of our minds that we consider Ownership to be real, punishable even to the point of death should someone infringe upon proving that it's all just a lie. Consider the difference between Public and Private Land. According to who exactly? All land is Public!! Let's say all the land was purchased already and you couldn't by a lot, would everyone toss you out into space then?? Probably!

Anyway, you see my point. So to answer you question, at least in a very all encompassing way, is that Everyone, each and every one of us, is, to various degrees, under many forms of Mental Control where our thoughts, which decide our actions, are simply being created for us and followed without even knowing why or questioning whether we should, or even if such a thing is Real or an Illusion.



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 10:39 AM
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I think people tend to find the answers that fits with their view of life. Those answers usually being the ones that are the most comfortable and poses the least amount of threat. Making sure those answers are true simply doesn't seem all that important. Well, until something goes really wrong, of course.



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 10:44 AM
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Hyperen,
I understand your point. But if a doctor gives you a potent drug it takes maybe 10 minutes tops to do a casual search on the internet & get the barest-of-bones data & list of side-effects. If it is a drug that your doctor is telling you to stay on permanently, then maybe an hour-long research period is warranted. The same thing goes for medical procedures. My question is why people don't even think of doing this--why is trust in authority so blind?



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by Cassie Clay
My question is why people don't even think of doing this--why is trust in authority so blind?


I would say it is because humans are generally lazy or have better things to do so they put their life in someone elses hands because they believe they can trust them. It is just the way we are and if we think we can get away with it, we will cut a corner whenever possible.



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by Hyperen
I would say it is because humans are generally lazy or have better things to do so they put their life in someone Else's hands because they believe they can trust them. It is just the way we are and if we think we can get away with it, we will cut a corner whenever possible.


While that is true for many many many people, Trust actually goes much deeper than that. Think about this.

When we are born one of the First Conditioned Parameters of Life we all establish is Trust. We have to as we are all helpless basically at that early stage of life. We trust that our mother or someone will feed us, care for us, etc. cause if they don't we would just die. Unlike most animals who learn to walk and quickly develop the life skills they'll need to live, humans begin forming relationships of dependency.

So now, we all develop Trust at the Primal stage of Life, and depending upon how that works out over time will result in either us being too trusting of others, not enough, or somewhere in the middle. Again, if we associate our trust with parents who identify primarily as Authority Figures, that will be the link that is developed. Very early one, and at the root of our first thoughts we would then link Trust with Authority and accept without thinking what that Authority Figure said to us or gave us or whatever.



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 05:05 PM
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I agree with Hyperen. People are just plain lazy there not interested in research they just simply want a quick fix and as long as it answers their question to a certain extent then that’s enough for them.

Course this IMHO is the f**king problem with the world.



posted on Jun, 22 2004 @ 08:34 PM
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I don't think the problem is laziness, but that we humans must have AN answer for every question, and have it QUICKLY. It's more comforting to strike a match and stare at it for a few seconds than to wait and contemplate the vast, silent darkness.



posted on Jun, 23 2004 @ 12:37 AM
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People are conditioned to recognize titles. Titles of authority, titles of power, titles of knowledge, titles of religion, so on and so forth. Your trust in titles goes only so far as experience allows you to. Your expectations in titles will diminish when they are not met, you're taken advantage of, or when the title holder takes zero accountability in their actions.



posted on Jun, 23 2004 @ 01:03 AM
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I agree whole-heartedly that this is the source of mind control. The reason we allow it to happen is because we see the government as our source of protection and guidance, because after all that is what it is there to do. The government is like our BIG DADDY. Now, if we disobey or criticize our government many people get the feeling that they have done something wrong. That maybe now the government will be mad at that time and won't show them the love they once got from the government. Hence, the reason so many people follow seemingly stupid laws. Actually, it goes a little beyond government in that people are finding out that criticizing or disobeying the government will result in a loss of love from their fellow citizens as well.
So in a way people have to rely on the government because not only do they see the government as a source of protection, they find out that this protection is limited by the person's capacity to follow in big daddy government's footsteps. So the more people don't question and just obey, the more love they will find in our society.
It is much like mojom was saying in that we project our trust, security, and most of all the LOVE we get from our parents onto authority figures. The love is the most important part of the equation because that gives us a contrast of what life is like while following the rules and what it is like when we are not.
All of the subjects you are speaking of are intertwined with the authority figure/government. The government has its official response to most of these enquiries. Ultimately, everything ties back there, such as the FDA that determines what drugs can and can't be allowed. So people receive a sense of security that anything being sold in the market must ultimately be good for you. The biggest exception of course being cigarettes. The masses would ultimately ask, If this drug is bad for you, why would they sell it? Then they decide to go ahead and buy it.
The funny thing about the paranormal is that many people have a religion, but ultimately decide that nothing exists except for what they see. They fail to realize that we see in a limited spectrum, hear in a limited frequency, taste only certain tastes, smell only certain smells, feel only that which isn't a gas or some higher vibration. Its amazing how this has been done.

Don't even get me started on politics and official goverment reports, everything that criticizes Bush is ultimately brushed off as liberal propaganda by the repubs and pro-Bush is repub propaganda to liberals. Neither one seem to realize that pretty much all of it is propaganda. Politics suck...

Mass mind control through these faculties is unto itself a conspiracy.



posted on Jun, 23 2004 @ 01:09 AM
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i think people go by occurances and ie: wierd happenings. also live feeds.



posted on Jun, 23 2004 @ 02:55 AM
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MIND CONTROL!! Jamuhn & I are not guessing or making up some crazy theory based on conjecture and assumption. People everywhere are CONDITIONED. It has been known for a very long time that you can CONTROL THE MIND and THE CONTROLLERS continue to refine and perfect their methods and techniques. Let's look at some examples to make things clear and hopefully you'll all start seeing a pattern developing and will then begin to recognize and expand the links from now on.

Original Questions
Why do most people 'Trust and/or Comply' with so called 'Official Sources, Experts, Specialists & Authority Figures' without bothering to question or investigate both Them or what they Say?

Examples of Mind Control and Conditioning from Various Sources
In school as we develop and form all the foundations of thought we are at all times surrounded by 'Controls' telling us What to Think & How to act.

Obey your teacher. Listen to what they say. Memorize what they tell you as you will be Tested. If you don't answer the Test Questions with Their Answers YOU FAIL. You don't talk, move, or pee without first 'Raising Your Hand' or 'Ask Permission' first, but also for them to 'Allow You' to speak or pee or leave your desk. You spend 12 years under these 'Conditions'.

Every day of those 12 years you also are trained to respond to the sound of a Bell/Whistle/etc. which tells you when to move or sit or when to arrive or leave or respond to your coach or stop running in the hall and so on. Are you familiar with Pavlov's Dog?

How about in ways others than School? How about your job? Clock in, Clock out, listen to your Boss or Supervisor cause they are Always Right and if you don't agree in Their Answers and Comply then YOUR FIRED.

What about Authority such as Police, Judges, Professional 'So in So', or 'Official Expert' Guy You-never-met, or 'Specialist' Whoever, or 'Grand Master' Something, or 'Our Benevolent' Self-Righteous Guy, or 'Your Honor', or 'Captain', or 'Majesty' or 'INSERT TITLE HERE' Person? Just because they are Named with some 'Title of Authority' does it really make 'Your Honor' Honorable, or 'The Specialist' Special? Because they have a 'Masters Degree' should you assume they have Mastered Anything or maybe that they are just you 'Master'?

Often times it is shown how similar Our Minds are to Computers. They both use Logic and Functions, Apply Values to Variables based upon Compiled Data. A computer is 'Controlled' by various 'Programs'. Isn't it Ironic that TV & Radio are known as 'Programing'? That they are in the business of 'Broadcasting' Their 'Programing'?

Who 'CONTROLS' the Media?

I'll stop here and hope you see where I'm going with this. Here are some other links you might find interesting.

The Battle for Your Mind
www.mindcontrolforums.com...

How are people CONTROLLED?
www.mindcontrolforums.com...



posted on Jun, 23 2004 @ 03:07 AM
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I don't agree with much of what has been said here.

I think people do question official sources a lot more now, especially in things that are personal to themselves/their family.

Quote from Cassie Clay

Examples:
1. Our doctor gives us a medication & says, take this for the rest of your life--how many of us do independent research on this medication before making the commitment (or at least give the doctor a whole battery of questions)?


We do tend to question our doctors now in a way that wouldn't have been seen as acceptable 30 years ago. Doctors are no longer seen as the "gods" they were in our grandparents time.

You only have to look at some of the medical threads here. Posters have taken a lot of trouble to find out about their medication and diseases. Our whole culture has changed. Its now so easy to google our way to knowledge.

Our education system encourages children to question everything, not to blindly believe all they are told. That's one of the reasons we have such knowledgeable and articulate young people on these boards. They have grown up in a culture expects them to investigate and gives them the confidence to challenge.



posted on Jun, 23 2004 @ 04:34 AM
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Originally posted by iwouldificould
I don't agree with much of what has been said here.


That's perfectly alright and I respect your opinion. I am however going to provide a following counter argument to yours, also further validating my previous post.



I think people do question official sources a lot more now, especially in things that are personal to themselves/their family.


This is of course a very subjective type of thing to prove as we will always see it from our perspectives as individuals. I think the most significant examples that I could use are Large Scale changes within Society in order to prove my case. For example:
1.) Increased use of Pharmaceutical Drugs in both Children and Adults. Children especially, even at early ages like 3 y/o are being put on meds. for things like Hyper, Depression, Shyness, or Difficult to Manage. This goes against the idea that most of these so called 'Disorders' come from things that Drugs don't fix. Like Dysfunctional Family and Society. Or even that children are simply playful and like to explore everything and no kid is supposed to like sitting quietly for long periods or live life in the worn out way adults have been forced to live.

2.) The increase in Bureaucratic B.S. within Politics, Business and Law. The Private sector is smaller and poorer while Government is Larger and Richer than ever, meaning there is less Self Reliance and more Dependence upon some Authority or Control System that directs the lives of the majority of the people of this country.


Quote from Cassie Clay Examples:
1. Our doctor gives us a medication & says, take this for the rest of your life--how many of us do independent research on this medication before making the commitment (or at least give the doctor a whole battery of questions)?

We do tend to question our doctors now in a way that wouldn't have been seen as acceptable 30 years ago. Doctors are no longer seen as the "gods" they were in our grandparents time.

You only have to look at some of the medical threads here. Posters have taken a lot of trouble to find out about their medication and diseases. Our whole culture has changed. Its now so easy to google our way to knowledge.


In part this is somewhat true. Although, I would again refer to my post above about the Over Medication of Society which has become so popular. Also, I think you are giving more credit to 'googling the answers' than is true. Yes, there are many people who do look around for 'Other Answers' as this site shows. It should be said though that the majority of the country still believes that places like ATS and those who post here are 'Nut Jobs' and Wacko's. (Which is debatable to some degree.
) Even a lot of what is here or on the web is nothing but Propaganda placed to Increase the Controls which are already in place.

If people were taking Personal Responsibility as they did 100 years or more ago I would think that there would be Less 'Frivolous Lawsuits', Big Business Monopolies, Reliance Upon Centralized Government, etc. Yet every one of those things have increased 10 fold. People are still Sheeple, as much as ever if not more. The most obvious I think is that there is simply an over all opinion that America as well as other countries have become increasingly more unstable and repressed. If it was the other way around, things like a fear of Police State, Religious Intolerance, Economic Failure and so on would not be as Probable as it is today.


Our education system encourages children to question everything, not to blindly believe all they are told. That's one of the reasons we have such knowledgeable and articulate young people on these boards. They have grown up in a culture expects them to investigate and gives them the confidence to challenge.


I disagree totally. Our education system is banning more books than ever. Cutting back in all areas, especially in the Arts and Music where kids are most likely to develop independent and creative thinking. They are being made to conform to Prison Like Learning Environments, have less freedom of expression than ever. There is more illiterate people than ever. They are being taught from books that are considered to be outdated. Teaching of subject matter is more P.C. and watered down than ever, if it's even mentioned at all. Kids in grades 1-6 are even getting expelled for things like having an aspirin in their backpack, or an Inhaler, or 'Saying the Word' gun, or playing Cowboys and Indians on the play ground. I could go on and on about this one as there is no end to it.

Honestly, I understand what you are saying. Although I think you are mistaking the fact that even though the Internet allows for access to info easier and faster, with the fact that people are actually using that info correctly. Most people use it as a means of getting a quick answer which once again just increases the problem. Rare is it that people, like many here at ATS, use it as a means or Researching additional material and then analyzing the full scale of information independently before coming to a conclusion.



posted on Jun, 23 2004 @ 07:22 AM
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Hi mOjOm,

We live in different counties (I‘m in uk), so are coming from different places here.

I totally agree with you about the Bureaucratic B.S. The industry I work in is over-run with it. You’ll get no argument from me on that account.

I. too, don’t agree with the over medication of kids & adults for ‘social’ reasons. However, believe it or not, there are still ‘pockets’ in the world where this is not common practice. I’m extremely lucky to live in a community where the first lines of treatment of ‘difficult’ kids are to be given resources rather than medication. In this country we are not yet into ‘Frivolous Lawsuits’ in the same way as you are (though I don’t doubt it will come), so don’t run the risk of being sued, for, e.g., not giving our children prescribed ‘controlling’ medication. I appreciate I’m lucky where I (choose to) live, as there are many parts of this country that do rely on pharmaceutical medication to control those in dysfunctional families. However, society is attempting to redress the imbalance and make parents responsible for their own children. We now have cases of parents being sent to prison for the child’s truancy and of families being evicted for the terror their children have caused.

I cannot agree with your statement

live life in the worn out way adults have been forced to live.
Adults now have a choice and the majority only has themselves to blame if they don’t like their lives. More people do take Personal Responsibility. 100 years ago the majority were dependant on others for not only their jobs, but for their housing, health care, education and family well-being, so had little choice than to ‘go along with authority’. Those that rebelled most likely ended up in workhouses, where they had no option at all to ‘question official sources’.

Our education system is now P.C. Yes, of course that’s true, along with the rest of society. (I mourn the loss of Janet & John books). It’s this very politically correctness that has given the young people of the day the tools with which to question authority. They know their rights and they question, question, and question. Not for them they blind faith that something is correct because its what they’ve been taught and it’s been that way for many years.

It’s not only those on ATS who use current resources to their full potential. There are many people in “normal” society (not that I consider ATS to be abnormal) who do not blindly do as told by those in authority. They investigate, whether it’s an illness, legal problem or whatever, and then question the person in authority. In this country, patients are encouraged to make ‘informed consent’ as to their treatment. Whilst not everyone ‘googles the answers’ they do find ways to seek information. Hospital departments are full of people who know more about their own illness than many doctors, and yes, they have researched and analysed.



posted on Jun, 23 2004 @ 08:29 AM
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Hi iwouldificould,


We live in different counties (I‘m in uk), so are coming from different places here.


Ahhh....Yes. Now this makes more sense!! We are living in two totally different worlds for sure. I don't know what it's like in the UK, but things in this country as well as the people themselves, generally speaking, are in a state of disarray and denial.

The ship is sinking.
The Captain and First Mate have already jumped ship with all the treasure as well as the only life boat.

Most of the crew seems to choose their Fantasy World Denial State rather than having to face the reality of becoming food for sharks.

While the rest of the crew have either gone mad with cabin fever or cannibalized what they could from the ship and are using it as a raft & hoping for the best.

Meanwhile there are an incredible amount of slaves, prisoners & stowaways down below who are basically just now waking up to find themselves shackled or behind a locked hatch with the water level up to their armpits.

Patching the holes seem unlikely without completely rebuilding the ship and even that would first require that people get their sh*t together and start working together instead of just thinking about themselves.

Well, I must say I am glad to hear that the People of the UK are doing their best to evolve past the Smart-Monkey stage. I'm not so sure many of the monkey-mindless-morons around here will qualify for natures next upgrade.

[edit on 23-6-2004 by mOjOm]



posted on Jun, 23 2004 @ 12:29 PM
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Great posts there mOjOm, really well thought out. I agree with you that people, from an early age, are taught to respect authority and obey authority and not question authority. It seems that this is done to make people easier to control in society.



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