Politics and Racism

I was thinking recently about how the different kinds of racism/bigotry fit into peoples political ideologies. Of course here I'm talking generalities and about the more extreme wings, so no need to jump in and say "I'm a liberal and I love Jews!" or similar.

Something I've noticed, is that more left wing people tend to be bigoted towards Jews, and more right wing people tend to be bigoted towards Blacks.

The idea I had, is that this is about the power structure, and stereotypes.

Left wing people tend to be against 'power'. They dislike things like corporations, and hate 'the elite' (Except when it's them, or their big government hehe). A big part of their ideology seems to be about empowering the weak, by methods such as redistribution. This is why they tend to be associated with Democracy, as they don't want an elite ruling over them, they want the population to decide.

Therefore, in my view, they tend to dislike Jews because the standard stereotype is of the Jew as all powerful, running the banks, running the media. The Jews in the stereotypical view are above them in the power structure.

Right wing people tend to be more pro-power/authority. They believe in the role of corporations. They believe in an 'elite'. For example, the whole idea of a Republic is that an elected elite rules, and can override the whim of the populace, because they are the best, and know best. This is touted as being useful, as it stops mob rule, and stops the dumb populace making stupid decisions they make take in 'mob rule'/democracy.

Therefore, they tend to dislike Blacks, because the standard stereotype is that blacks are lazy and stupid, placing them below them in the power structure.

So it may be rather simplistic to say that the Left hate people above them in the power structure, and the Right hate people below them, but it seems to add up in this one case.

What do you think?


[edit on 12/8/2010 by harpsounds]

Alright, this could actually turn into a good discussion. Granted you are speaking in pure generalities, I know what you are talking about.

You are speaking of the Political Spectrum.

There have been many intelligent analysis of the various flavors of politics, and in some cases diagrams have been formed.

Now keep in mind many of these diagrams are somewhat different, but many of them are based on each other. And also keep in mind that no diagram can explain everything or keep track of everything.

We can use the diagrams to get a general understanding of the different types of political belief there is, and plot them on a chart to indicate where it falls in respect to other political systems.

Here is the Wikipedia link on the topic of Political Spectrum.
en.wikipedia.org...

Open that page and check out the diagrams.
Look down a bit at the diagram labeled "Hans Slomp projection of the European political spectrum".

Each of the political systems are click-able links, each directing you to a more detailed article on that topic. Mouse over the various names like "anarchism" or "social liberalism" or whatever, nifty thing that is.

Here is a link to the section on the "Nolan Chart" which is one of the most popular renditions of this method of classifying political systems. en.wikipedia.org...

Now, I am going to go read these links further in depth because there is some really cool information there. I hope anyone who reads my post will go read this stuff as well.

Just since I am posting here I guess I may as well attempt to classify myself on the spectrum, despite the fact I do not like putting labels on myself, but oh well it's not that big of a deal.

I guess I am pretty much an "Anarchistic Libertarian", if that makes any sense.

About Racism along the Spectrum ::

Granted some groups may lean towards "group beliefs" that can at many times be construed as racist, that is still a gross over-generalization. But as long as no one harms anyone else's liberties, and respects each other, there is nothing really wrong with racism.

Everyone has a right to think what they want. No one has a right to enforce their belief on someone else, including racism or anti-racism.

Just do not harm anyone's liberty, and you are free to hate anyone you want. You can say any nasty opinion you want. You can be racist, classiest, soulless, whatever you choose. Free Will and all that.

But the minute that violence starts, all the rules are out the window, and no holds are barred. So I just ask that everyone stays non-violent, so that this will not turn into a psychotic and bloody type ordeal like World War 2 or World War 1 etc.

Sorry to make a big post, but I am bored and was just sitting here slapping away at the keyboard.

Bigotry doesn't have a political party, a race, a gender, a religion, or a national origin. Bigotry only has ignorance and those willing to perpetuate it.

Just my thoughts as a liberal conservative, or maybe a conservative liberal who has never met a human being that I did hate.

Originally posted by Hefficide

Bigotry doesn't have a political party, a race, a gender, a religion, or a national origin. Bigotry only has ignorance and those willing to perpetuate it.

Just my thoughts as a liberal conservative, or maybe a conservative liberal who has never met a human being that I did hate.

Aren't you being bigoted against bigots?

So what now?

How about accept bigots as equal humans? Because you and I are all bigots in the end.

No one's perfect.

Treating bigots like lesser people is wrong and bigoted itself.

So I accept their views. I love hearing people's different opinions, including yours. And I accept you despite that.

I just hope you can forgive them and accept them too. That's just my personal hope for all humanity. The hates gotta stop right? So why dress it up and parade it as something it's not?

Because that is what you just did. You dressed bigoted hate up in fancy words that most people would accept at face value. But I know what is under those cloths. It's bigotry and hate.

Like I said, everyone's guilty. You me everyone. I forgive us. I just hope all of you can too.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Honestly, bigotry is something that I truly have never experienced on a personal level. I don't know if it is how I was raised, or just some bizarre mutation that I happen to have. I just don't see people as being defined by what they are, ever.

Now that isn't to say that there aren't a boat load of people who haven't peaved me beyond words. That isn't uncommon at all. I just always see the behavior as the issue and not the person.

But you do have a point, being bigoted against bigotry is, technically, bigotry in and of itself. I also must confess, as the shirt I happen to be wearing right now states "stupidity should be painful" that being bigoted against bigots isn't my only bias!

reply to post by Hefficide



I need to get one of those shirts.

You reminded me of a thread I wrote like a year ago, where I was talking about something like this.

I forgot exactly what I said, I'd have to go look it up.

But it went something like this :

"I just realized I am bias. I am bias against murder, I am bias against theft, I am bias against lies, etc. Wow I am a hella bias partisan person.
Hey at least I can admit I am bias and partisan right??? Most people hide it and pretend they are not."

And after thinking about it, I stand by those words LOL!


Just trying to get a laugh out of a tense topic thats all.

reply to post by muzzleflash


No troubles dude, you're not the only one who sees the humor as well as the seriousness of the subject matter! Laughter never hurts difficult topics. That's why the greats (Bruce, Pryor, Carlin etc...) were so brilliant!

reply to post by harpsounds


Ultimately the left is all about power - state power. A "progressive" agenda has never been implmented absent the jack boot.

The "right" is about state power as well. The right looks to constrict freedom as well, just in different ways as the left.

politics = power and both ends of the spectrum strive for it and that is why both ends of the spectrum are fundamentally dangerous.

Right now, it is the right who is most supportive of freedom, hence most libertarians find themselves closer to the right than the left. Thirty years ago the opposite was true.

The best solution to all of these problems is for everyone to vote and never vote for an incumbant, ever. I have never voted for an incumbant. Not for any office and never will.

[edit on 12-8-2010 by dolphinfan]

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by harpsounds

 

Ultimately the left is all about power - state power.

Untrue.

The "right" is about state power as well.

Untrue.

politics = power and both ends of the spectrum strive for it and that is why both ends of the spectrum are fundamentally dangerous.

Not always. Power isn't inherently dangerous, either.

Right now, it is the right who is most supportive of freedom, hence most libertarians find themselves closer to the right than the left. Thirty years ago the opposite was true.

Only in America. Europe's Libertarians are almost all left-wing.

The best solution to all of these problems is for everyone to vote and never vote for an incumbant, ever. I have never voted for an incumbant. Not for any office and never will.

Surely that should depend on whether the incumbent is actually a decent candidate?

reply to post by harpsounds


Well I know left wingers on three continents and have no idea of any anti- Jewish sentiments so I would challenge your premise as false. The left tries to be non - elitisit so does not like to feel that it has any bigotries.

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by harpsounds

 

Well I know left wingers on three continents and have no idea of any anti- Jewish sentiments so I would challenge your premise as false. The left tries to be non - elitisit so does not like to feel that it has any bigotries.

Most of us don't like the actions of Israel (although I'd hardly limit that solely to people on the left).

Maybe that's what the OP means?

reply to post by LeftWingLarry


Sorry I am not sure what you are getting at.

Well the Jews that I know in the left are strongly anti Israel. The black people that I know in the left hate white supremacy as much as they hate black nationalists. Bigotry and any form of “ism” is totally against the sentiment of Marx, Lenin and Trotsky. Simply put bigotry divides the working class sadly this is a noble sentiment that is not necessarily realised by those who have adopted the only the title of “Socialist”.

I agree with the Original Poster 100%, for all their reasons given. Unlike LeftWingHarry (who evidently decides the definition of being left-wing) I can identify with these stereotypes without resorting to some kind of Orwellian, “detail distraction”.

Basically blacks = sponge, and Jews = Inherently, deceptively evil, Social Conspirators.

I know the Jews are put this way because they are statistically way ahead of the population in terms of I.Q, political positions, and of course income.

I know Blacks are put this way because they are statistically more guilty of crime, poverty, and IQ en.wikipedia.org...:SAT-math-by-race-ethnicity.png

Sad thing is there are actually geniuses and idiots in every group, and whilst the concentrations vary, they don’t (morally) justify discrimination against someone, (at least when you’ve chance to interview their personality).
One Catch 22 is that knowledge of race always affects how you’ll interpret a personality (even if you don’t want it to) although I’d always choose a mind that was enlightened & free, than enslaved and ignorant.

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by LeftWingLarry

 

Sorry I am not sure what you are getting at.

That many of us on the left despise the actions of Israel. Many people seem to confuse 'anti-Israel' with 'anti-Semitic'. I then speculated that this could be what the OP meant.

Well the Jews that I know in the left are strongly anti Israel.

Which would make my point, really.

The black people that I know in the left hate white supremacy as much as they hate black nationalists. Bigotry and any form of “ism” is totally against the sentiment of Marx, Lenin and Trotsky.

# Lenin, Marx and Trotsky, to put it nicely.

Simply put bigotry divides the working class sadly this is a noble sentiment that is not necessarily realised by those who have adopted the only the title of “Socialist”.

It divides everyone, not just the working class.