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Originally posted by PplVSNWO
Originally posted by explosivo
*sigh*, so many misguided souls in here trying to set facts where in reality these facts are nothing more than mere speculations, and that's being generous.
This thread could've ended long ago.
You say the holocaust never happened? That's strange, because Adolf Eichmann (...for those of you that don't know - Eichmann was a high-ranked officer in charge of many issues regarding the camps, that was caught and kidnapped by the Israeli Mossad in 1960 and was brought to Israel for a trial...) admitted to all sorts of accusations in his trial while his defense was that he only recieved orders.
Why would Eichmann say such a thing if the holocaust never happened? Must be a Zionist conspiracy! ...
[edit on 9-8-2010 by explosivo]
Sigh, I think your "facts" are misguided and I'm surprised nobody has pointed this out yet.
Eichmann is a perfect example of why you can't use torture to extract confessions. Eichmann signed a confession to killing some 5 million. This Auschwitz, and I already posted a court ruling establishing 300,000 died at is obviously a complete lie, there were nowhere near 5 million killed at Auschwitz.
In spite of all the international commotion and the vast barrage of irresponsible print which has flooded the world on Eichmann since May, 1960, there is not the slightest substantial evidence that Eichmann ever deliberately ordered even one Jew gassed in a German concentration camp, to say nothing of having ordered and supervised the extermination of six million Jews
Before you start busting others' chops about learning the facts, maybe you should learn some real history yourself first.
Originally posted by PplVSNWO
reply to post by duality90
I don't really have a clue what you are asking me. Which part of my post do you need a source for?
Originally posted by blah yada
reply to post by aspx
I sit very much on the fence on this topic and always try to handle any info on it in an objective and critical manner.
How can we be sure that all or any the corpses in those pics are Jewish?
Those bodies all bear the hallmarks of chronic malnutrition.Why go to all the trouble of gassing when they are already dying of malnutrition?
Why not cut off the food and water,keep the bullets and furnace fuel for the war effort,and avoid having to spend a dime on gas?
Alternatively,slow acting poison could have been administered in food which would have been devoured in minutes.
Before anyone decides to fire the old anti- Semitism charge my way,my mother is a Sephardic Jew,albeit secular.I am an atheist for the record.
Originally posted by duality90
To the best of my knowledge, any photographs of malnourished corpses are just that - photographs of malnourished corpses. Prisoners were not kept for slave labor and then later gassed (at least, I do not think that this was a widespread practice. At the large death camps in Poland you were either pressed into slave labor or sent to the gas chambers immediately, although I think at any of the other camps except Auschwitz, no purpose was to be served there except immediate liquidation, as Auschwitz-III Monowitz was where the prisoners interned at II-Birkenau went to work).
Zimmerman asserts that during the typhus epidemic the sick detainees were killed en mass. Let us see what happened during the month when the typhus epidemic reached its peak: August 1942.
3 August: 193 "gassed"
10 August: an indeterminate number of "gassed"
29 August: 746 "gassed."
We can say that the round figure is 1,500 "gassed."
All other deaths were therefore due to "natural" causes. Now in August 1942 there were 8,600 deaths overall, of which 7,100 were due to "natural" causes. What caused this extremely high mortality if it was not typhus? As we see, this "myth" is truly fatal.
September 2, 1942
For the first time, at 3:00 A.M. outside, attended a special action. Dante's Inferno seems to me almost a comedy compared to this. They don't call Auschwitz the camp of annihilation for nothing!
September 5, 1942
In the morning attended a special action (note by Nichirasu: "special action" = "Sonderbehandlung" in the german original) from the women's concentration camp (Muslims); the most dreadful of horrors. Master-Sergeant Thilo (troop doctor) was right when he said to me that this is the anus mundi. In the evening towards 8:00 attended another special action from Holland. Because of the special rations they get a fifth of a liter of schnapps, 5 cigarettes, 100 g salami and bread, the men all clamor to take part in such actions. Today and tomorrow (Sunday) work.
In the body disposal study I had erroneously claimed that Mattogno never addressed the issue of open air burnings. In his reply, he called my attention to a publication entitled My Banned Holocaust Interview where he discussed these issues. At the time of writing the study I was unaware of this publication -- and for good reason: it is very difficult to obtain and not as accessible as Mattogno's other publications. However, thanks to John Drobnicki of "The Holocaust History Project", I was finally able to obtain a copy of this tract.
Much of argument on the issue of open air burnings centers around the May 31, 1944 photo. In my body disposal study I had supposed that Mattogno received any information he had about this topic from John Ball. In the article Mattogno wrote with Franco Deana he had twice referred his readers to an article by Ball when discussing the gravesites in the area outside of the camp that appear on the May 31 photo. He wrote: "John C Ball demonstrates in the present volume that the air photos taken of Auschwitz by the Allies show no traces of mass incineration in pits."13
I was able to show that Ball has lied consistently about those photos. Mattogno now states (Reply, 3) that he possesses all of the aerial and surface photographs of Auschwitz from 1944. This is quite a revelation since he has given no less than three different versions of what is on this photo. Mattogno writes that "f I change opinion concerning interpretation of specific points, that depends only upon progression of my studies, and not due to the fact that later books have published documents which I have already possessed." (Reply, 3) But since he already had these photos, one wonders what could have changed on them to give varying accounts of their contents. Did he actually examine them or did he rely on Ball? I strongly suspect that Mattogno was deceived by Ball but is now too embarrassed to admit it.
The first version was in his 1994 monograph when he wrote that this photo does not show "a trace of smoke, no trace of pits, crematory or otherwise...no trace of dirt extracted from pits." 14 In my body disposal study I quoted extensively from a report by photo imagery expert Carroll Lucas that proves that Mattogno's original claims concerning this photo are outright false. Mattogno has not addressed Lucas's report in his reply -- possibly because he relied on Ball's false account of the photos' contents. The full text of this report will be reproduced in Appendix IV of my forthcoming book. Mattogno already had the May 31 photos, so I wonder how he could have missed the pits near Krema V since he has copies of "all the Auschwitz aerial photographs..." (Reply, 3) The late Mark Van Alstine told me that he was able to identify these pits from the aerial photo reproduced in John Ball's book.
In 1994 the photo was published in a volume of essays entitled The Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp where smoke was identified in the area of the Krema V. In his second explanation, which appeared in 1995 -- and quoted in the body disposal study -- Mattogno now claimed that the smoke was most probably from "trash incineration." Mattogno vehemently denies making any such statement. He writes: "This is false. I never wrote such a thing; not in that booklet or elsewhere." (Reply, 3). What is particularly disconcerting about Mattogno's denial is that he only needed to go to the denier website where his article appears to find that he wrote the following:
"The small column of smoke rising from the courtyard near Crematory V which appears in the aerial photograph is consistent with outside trash incineration..." (italics added).15
It is one thing when Mattogno denies the Holocaust, but quite another when he denies his own writings. However, he still did not address the issue of pits near Krema V
His third version appeared in the 1996 tract, which I recently learned of and acquired. Here he admits that there may have been some open air burnings in the area of Krema V but "supposing that the smoke comes from a [outdoor] cremation facility" meant only that "there was a shortfall for coke in the crematory ovens or when the crematoria were shut down for repairs." 16 Mattogno's problem was to explain why outdoor burnings would be needed at a time when 437,000 Jews were being deported from Hungary to Auschwitz if the ovens were functioning so he tried to argue that the ovens were probably not functioning. He did not present one shred of evidence to support the assertion that the ovens were not functioning.
The source Mattogno cited in support for the possibility of the crematoria not functioning was Danuta Czech's, Auschwitz Chronicle entry for August 2, 1944, three weeks after the Hungarian operation had been concluded. He describes the entry as "cadavers of Gypsies alleged to have been homicidally gassed on 2 August, 1944, were cremated out in the open because the crematory ovens at that time were not working." However, he could cite no sources which mention any oven failures during the Hungarian operation from mid May to mid July 1944. Moreover, he used a technique that, as noted in the body disposal study, he had utilized when trying to justify positions he was advocating for which he could not cite the original source. One of the principal sources Czech used for the crematoria not operating on August 2, 1944 -- not mentioned by Mattogno -- and therefore necessitating outdoor burnings was eyewitness testimony. I obtained this testimony from the Auschwitz State Museum. It was given in Polish by native Poles. My thanks to Dr. William Samelson of THHP for translating this testimony for me.
This testimony cited by Czech, when read in its entirety, discusses the gassing of prisoners. Czech describes the testimony as follows: "Trucks drive into the camp and 2,897 defenseless women, men and children are driven to the gas chambers. After the gassing the corpses of the murdered are incinerated in the pit next to the crematorium, since the crematorium ovens are not operating at the time." 17
Mattogno had to argue that the crematoria were not functioning, otherwise he would be unable to offer any justification for outdoor burnings. Why? Assuming that Kremas II and III were operating and further assuming that each of them could only burn one body per hour in a 20 hour period, it would mean that they had the combined capacity to burn 600 bodies, a number which has been advanced by Mattogno on the capacity of the 30 ovens of Kremas II and III. 18 Why would it be necessary to utilize open air burnings if there was a capacity to burn 600 bodies? Such open air burning would be consistent with mass murder. Even if only one of the Kremas was operating there would not be a need for open air burnings absent mass murder.
Mattogno also has another problem which he avoided in My Banned Holocaust Interview. In the article he wrote with Franco Deana and cited throughout the body disposal study, he had admitted to outdoor burnings in the area outside of the camp, but only for the period prior to the building of the crematoria in March 1943. This area, as noted by Mattogno, is visible on the May 31, 1944 photo. The problem is as follows: since there already was an area available for these burnings, why was it necessary to create a second area near Krema V? Why not simply use the site that was available and used previously? The fact that there are two such areas visible on the May 31 photo is consistent with mass murder. (... Nichirasu)
Originally posted by NichirasuKenshin
Originally posted by filosophia
Allow me to use your own words in order to illustrate a point.
Yes. The problem is, though, that all the so called "evidence" in the video has been refuted.
Notice how you use quotations around "evidence" in order to show us you dismiss it, without giving any detail I might add. In the same way, David Cole called his documentaries "documentaries" as if to dismiss his own work, which, as you know, only someone who is insulting someone else's work does this. In addition, the letter was type written but a signature at the bottom. So, those are two good reasons that you can DENY prove the letter is a forgery.
I have already given arguments why your version of the "forged letter" is not plausible.
I will continue to write "evidence" until you or someone else can point to anything in those videos that refutes the Holocaust. So far no one has, therefore it's "evidence" (claimed) and not evidence (real).
I see we are running out now? Were are your arguments that it didn't happen or happened differently?
Where's the so called "explosive" material?
[edit on 11-8-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]
Prüfer relates that he has told Krone, who has just returned from Auschwitz, that the camp can be provided with enough cremation muffles to bring the cremation capacity up to 2650 per day, or 80,000 per month. However, Prüfer notes: "Mr. K said that this number of muffles is not yet sufficient; we should deliver more ovens as quickly as possible."
Thus, Prüfer has been informed by the Third Reich's Buildings' section that a cremation capacity of slightly less than 1 million per year is not enough for Auschwitz's needs! This is the first document which has emerged before the building of 46 ovens in four crematoria in the Birkenau section of the camp (there were already six ovens in the Auschwitz main camp) which gives a true picture of the homicidal nature of Auschwitz from the perspective of how the SS in Berlin viewed the camp's real cremation needs. The memo categorically refutes Holocaust deniers who claim that the Auschwitz crematoria were merely used for normal sanitary purposes. No denier has ever claimed that normal sanitation would require such an extraordinary cremation capacity. At the time the memo was written, gassing victims were burned in outdoor areas near two provisional gas chambers.
Originally posted by filosophia
I'm on BUCHENWALD, episode 14.
This video states that the major strength of the holocaust myth is its ability to get people to become emotional rather than critical for the purposes of justifying war.
Rather than learning the lessons of world war 2 by knowing that militarization is bad for society, the holocaust myth gets in the way and people assume that militarization is the solution to militarization. We are worried that Iran is building nuclear weapons, and so we must destroy them first? The game of chicken has a fifty percent chance of ending in destruction.
So, explain to me how this view is wrong, that militarization is the only solution to the world's problems. That would mean justifying Fascist actions, and thus justifying Nazi policies, which would greatly insult any survivor of the holocaust. The fact that genocide is a recurring cycle in society is not new, but what people don't understand is that it is the myth of fear that perpetuates this genocide and the hierarchy of us and them that leads to the holocaust. Even as we speak, the war drums are beating to invade Iran because Iran wants to "wipe Israel off the map," so as the only solution, we, being the united states led by Israel, must wipe Iran off the map for Israel. And you're calling me racist?