My Solution for Arizona- Ignore the Federal Court Ruling!, page 3
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reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 08:40 AM by MikeNice81
reply to post by abecedarian



Simply put the wording of the decision says that enforcing the listed subsections and sections would hamper the federal government's ability to fight crime. That means that legally any attempt to enforce thos sections would put those trying in direct violation of their own state law.



The avenues of recourse available to the executive branch of the government wouldn't be favorable towards the federal government:


All that would have to happen is the president tell the govenor to enforce her own laws. If she refused the DOJ could step in "independent" of the president and start a corruption probe. Then the president just sits back and watches as the top level is skimmed off and the chain of succession takes over. Special elections would be held for sherif and new mayors would apoint new police cheifs.

All it would take is a few dozen DOJ employees. There would be no need for troops or massive numbers of federal agents. It would be over and done before most people know what happened.


My point though was that there own law prevents them from ignoring the judge's order. If they ignore her order they are effectively hindering immigration enforcement by the federal government. At least that is the finding of the court. Plus they would potentially be affecting and deciding foreign policy (according to the judge) which is unconstitutional.

So, should Arizona violate its own law and the constitution?

I think they should just rewrite the "bad" sections of the law and resubmit it for a vote. It would be faster, cheaper, and would actually address the issues stated that make it illegal. The consensus in the legal field seems to be that a simple rewrite would make it legal and keep most of the teeth in the law.

Politicians have to grand stand though. It is an election year and somebody has to get crapped on. I bet if a cost analysis of continued fighting and simply rewriting was presented to Arizona'a citizens they would want a rewrite.

Four good lawyers could get together, and using the order as a guide, rewrite the controversial sections to be compliant in a weekend. If they started right now they could probably vote on it by Wednesday.

This is just another example of the politics of emotion being used to control groups and win favor.


reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 10:30 PM by Phedreus
reply to post by MikeNice81



According to reports, Arizona law enforcement officers, received training by federal ICE personnel, in federal enforcement of federal immigration laws. This was paid for with stimulus money and was aimed at allowing State and local police to reinforce and expand the resources avalible to ICE to deal with ever increasing load.

“Part of the law that the governor signed makes it illegal for any "officials, agencies, and political subdivisions" to refuse to cooperate with or hinder federal laws and law enforcement.”

Arizona lawmakers would be derelict in their duty not only to the federal government but to the citizens of their state if they did not use state resources to attempt to enforce federal immigration laws, in lieu of the federal government’s inability to do so
The ruling the judge passed down limited Arizona as to what sections of its state law it could enforce. It did not in any way address the issue of state police enforcing federal law as it applies to Illegal immigration. Their trained for it, and until the federal government can respond with adequate resources to control this problem it has an obligation to do so.
Arizona lawmakers also take an oath to defend the people and the rights they as citizens have in their state.


Article 4 section 4 clause 2

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

The Executive of the state of Arizona as well as the legislature have made such Application and the federal government has failed to respond. It falls to the state governments as members of the federation of states, to see that federal laws are enforced and that the people of their state are protected, until such time as the federal government can address the crisis.



[edit on 7/30/2010 by Phedreus]



reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 10:56 PM by SheaWolf
reply to post by ProfEmeritus


According to this article it was all done in the wrong court by the wrong judge. This would mean that AZ still has it's law intact.

canadafreepress.com...


reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 11:28 PM by fred call
From what I'm hearing from my sources in Arizona, if you are someone in Arizona who shouldn't be in Arizona, you don't want to illegally spit on the streets.

You don't want to illegally pass gas downwind in Arizona.

You don't want to have a broken tail light.

You don't want to even walk down the street with a blood alcohol level of more than .01.

Not that I'm saying the Arizona law enforcement people are any more creative in arresting people than law enforcement people in any other state. But it sounds like the Arizona law enforcement people might be a little more motivated in finding a reason that could have you end up spending a couple hours in jail. If not the night. Not to forget mentioning that you could find yourself paying a fine for whatever infrction you committed.

Now, who was that rap artist who said something to really tick off the New York Police. Yeah, I think it was Lil Wayne. He said some things that really grated the New York Police the wrong way. Lil Wayne was set to perform in New York City. His people told him not to drive his road bus through New York City. Lil Wayne said he was not afraid of the New York Police.

Surprise! Surprise! Lil Wayne is doing prison time. The New York Police found illegal drugs on Lil Wayne's bus.

There's something to be said as a warning if you are prone to pizz off the police. And that word of warning is: don't go anywhere where the police can see you.

New York. Arizona. Texas. New Mexico. Florida. Georgia. Etc. Etc. Etc. It's a universal law.

The Arizona Police do not have to arrest illegals for being in Arizona illegally. There are soooooooo many other reasons the Arizona Police can arrest a body.

My advice to illegals: the protestors are getting arrested. The protestors aren't going to stay in Arizona forever. You might want to think about moving to Los Angeles rather than Arizona. Your life might go simpler that way.

I'm just saying in a matter of fact way.


reply posted on 31-7-2010 @ 12:33 AM by oniongrass
Originally posted by MikeNice81
...
All that would have to happen is the president tell the govenor to enforce her own laws. If she refused the DOJ could step in "independent" of the president and start a corruption probe. Then the president just sits back and watches as the top level is skimmed off and the chain of succession takes over. Special elections would be held for sherif and new mayors would apoint new police cheifs.

All it would take is a few dozen DOJ employees. There would be no need for troops or massive numbers of federal agents. It would be over and done before most people know what happened.

...


Nope, they could try and do an investigation. It would be all over the news. After due consideration they would decide whatever, and if it's adverse to Arizona, then Arizona would just say OK, we'll ignore that too.

What happens then -- US sends in troops? Everyone knows the Federal government doesn't appoint state government. That's what "federal" means and it's not completely dead.

US troops would strongly resist taking out the Arizona government.

When the next election rolls around, Jan Brewer doesn't run but endorses another candidate who is about the same as she is. Sort of like Putin / Medvedev. New administration, and Obama gets to start again ...

Your whole scenario has no precedent in US history that I know of. You're just making it up. In this country, the states are really not just subsidiaries of the central government.

They should not rewrite the law, because it's fine as is. It should not change, although if they can grease the wheels with some cosmetic changes, why not.


reply posted on 31-7-2010 @ 12:47 AM by abecedarian
Originally posted by SheaWolf
reply to
post by ProfEmeritus


According to this article it was all done in the wrong court by the wrong judge. This would mean that AZ still has it's law intact.

canadafreepress.com...

Article III, Sec. 2, clause 2 says:

In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction.


GOOD CATCH!!!
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