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Obama Now Defends Health Insurance Mandate As A Tax...

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posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 10:15 PM
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Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax.
WASHINGTON — When Congress required most Americans to obtain health insurance or pay a penalty, Democrats denied that they were creating a new tax. But in court, the Obama administration and its allies now defend the requirement as an exercise of the government’s “power to lay and collect taxes.”

And that power, they say, is even more sweeping than the federal power to regulate interstate commerce.


Source: www.nytimes.com...
www.drudgereport.com...


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[edit on 17/7/2010 by Mirthful Me]




posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 10:22 PM
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So, How many of you kept telling some of us, that there would no taxes to pay for health insurance?


I think now you understand your Dear Leader a little better.
One of the parts I don't like is this: [Many people will be eligible for federal subsidies to help them pay premiums. ] So, you'll be paying not only for your own health insurance, but also a portion of some one else that can't afford the full cost for themselves.

THAT SUCKS FOR YA
DON'T IT LIBERAL OBAMANITES.
Hows That Hope and Change Working Out For Ya Now?


[edit on 17-7-2010 by guohua]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 10:37 PM
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Here it is, for you Obamanites that didn't believe Obama said it won't ever be a tax.

[For us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase,” the president said last September, in a spirited exchange with George Stephanopoulos on the ABC News program “This Week.” When Mr. Stephanopoulos said the penalty appeared to fit the dictionary definition of a tax, Mr. Obama replied, “I absolutely reject that notion.” ] end quote.
NOT A TAX INCREASE
Your President said. I don't conceder him my POTUS, he lies more than the last 6 did.


You Voted For Him, You Pay The Tax, I'm Retired F.L.E.O. I'm insured.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by guohua
Congress can use its taxing power “even for purposes that would exceed its powers...


That's unreal.. Orwellian double speak which translates to "We can do whatever the hell we like, hey we're congress."



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 10:41 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



The Administration and the Legislature can call it a tax and that they have the power to tax until they drop over dead for being too stupid to breath. It does not change the fact that the individual is making a purchase and that purchase is a medical coverage policy from an insurance company.

A mandatory purchase of anything is not a granted power of the US Constitution of the federal government.

"A Rose by any other name."

Personally, I think they should all be incarcerated for life under hard labor, with no parole, for violation of their oath of office. And immediately, both the ones that voted for it and the ones that voted against it and doing nothing about it. The entire federal government, including those nine robe wearers of the Supreme Court for not stepping up and saying "No, you can not legally do do this without an Amendment to grant this power."



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by guohua
Congress can use its taxing power “even for purposes that would exceed its powers...


That's unreal.. Orwellian double speak which translates to "We can do whatever the hell we like, hey we're congress."


Yes, it is unreal and I think we'll see more of this blatant abuse of power from this Administration.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by Ahabstar
 



Yes they all should be and I mean ALL! I agree with you.
The new POTUS and Congress and House should all be held accountably to us by not only term limits put I think a probation period of 12 months, we could just do a recall or vote them out.

We need to stop with the Lawyer politicians and this Rich as Sin crowd that gets in there for life. If we're happy with your performance maybe two terms, no, no, no special interest groups allowed.
Just my thoughts.


[edit on 17-7-2010 by guohua]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 11:02 PM
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This health care reform is just evil. Better hope you can afford to buy the insurance. If not you will be forced into medicare. They have something called estate recovery. Which basically means when you die, even if you leave a will, they will take everything you have to cover any medical bills they paid for you.

edited to add this:

www.alllaw.com...


Social security and Medicare taxes, also known as FICA taxes must be withheld from your employees' wages. As an employer, you must also pay a matching amount of FICA taxes for your employees.

We pay taxes for medicare and when you die you will pay again.

[edit on 17-7-2010 by ohioriver]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by Ahabstar
 


Obama is right, Congress' authority to tax is complete and plenary. There are to classes of taxation, direct and indirect. Indirect taxes deal with specific activities. Congress can and does tax specific activities. Where Obama is failing is that all taxes owed, are only owed by those who are liable for a tax. Congress cannot mandate a law requiring people to perform an activity so they may tax it. They only have the authority to tax the activity, not force people to engage in the activity. An indirect tax is a defeatable tax.

If Obama attempts to declare this an indirect tax, then it must be uniform throughout the states, and only on specific activities. If Obama attempts to declare this a direct tax, then it must be apportioned among the states, and it is not a defeatable tax. Direct taxes are either capitation taxes, (of which Congress has never legislated a capitation tax), or a direct tax on property.

Where Obama is correct that Congress has the complete and plenary power of taxation, that power does not come without restrictions. Further, a tax owed is a tax liability. Who would assess this liability? No matter how Obama attempts to argue this, he will run afoul of the Constitution he claims scholarship over. Of course, now a days, a Constitutional scholar is someone who argues end runs around the Constitution are legal.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 11:12 PM
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brain hurts......obama nonsense over load whens barry gonna stop this nonsense and at least stick with a story dont care hes a dem wouldnt care if he was a republican lieing like this shouldnt be allowed when is some one some where gonna do something about this guy

(note to the evil SS i am not advocating nor am i claiming in any way shape or form a threat or violence implied or otherwise against mr suttero aka the crazy kenyan aka illegal president obama )



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by ohioriver
 


WOW,
now that website was an eye opener. Thank You for posting that


Can you believe this Sh$t, They want to have you from cradle to grave.
The employers, look how their going to be treated
, this is insane.

It's no wonder that no one is hiring, their saving as much money as possible.
I think their waiting before they hire to be sure Obama gets voted out.

Then we need to repeal the crap he's started that is destroying our Nation and our large corporations will star hiring again.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Jean Paul Zodeaux, Sir: I would like you to look at a flier I received and let me know your thoughts Please.

Why was Barack Obama's law license inactivated in 2002?

Why was Michelle's law license INACTIVATED by court order?

There is only one Barack Hussein Obama according to the U. S. Census and he has 27 Social Security numbers and over 80 aliases. ( I find this hard to believe. )

The one he uses now originated in Connecticut where he is not ever reported to have lived. No wonder ALL of his 'records' are sealed!!!

At least we only have 3 years of this mystery man left before we can replace him.

Was He There?

Who IS He?

I have always wondered why NO ONE ever came forward from Obama's past saying they knew him, attended school with him, was his friend, etc.

NO ONE, not one person has ever come forward from his past.

This should really be a cause for great concern.

To those who voted for him, YOU HAVE ELECTED THE BIGGEST UNQUALIFIED FRAUD that America has ever known!

This is very interesting stuff. Sort of adds credence to the idea of The Manchurian Candidate thing having happened here!

Stephanopoulos of ABC news said the same thing during the '08 campaign. He too was a classmate of BO's at Columbia class of 1984. He said he never had ONE class with him.

Was he there?

While he is such a great orator, why doesn't ANYONE in Obama's college class remember him?

Maybe he never attended class!

Maybe he never attended Columbia ?

He won't allow Colombia to release his records either.

Suspicious isn't it???

NOBODY REMEMBERS OBAMA AT COLUMBIA !!!!!!!

Looking for evidence of Obama's past, Fox News contacted 400 Columbia University students from the period when Obama claims to have been there, but none remembered him.

Wayne Allyn Root was, like Obama, a political science major at Columbia who also graduated in 1983.

In 2008, Root says of Obama, "I don't know a SINGLE PERSON at Columbia that knew him, and they all know me.

I don't have a classmate who ever knew Barack Obama at Columbia . EVER! Nobody recalls him.


"Root adds that he was also, like Obama, "Class of '83 political science, pre-law" and says, "You don't get more exact or closer than that.

Never met him in my life, don't know anyone who ever met him.

At the class reunion, our 20th reunion five years ago, who was asked to be the speaker of the class? Me. No one ever heard of Barack!

And five years ago, nobody even knew who he was. The guy who writes the class notes, who's kind of the, as we say in New York, the macha who knows everybody, has yet to find a person, a human who ever met him.

Is that not strange? It's VERY strange. "Obama's photograph does NOT appear in the school's 'yearbook' and Obama consistently declines requests to talk about his years at Columbia, provide school records, or provide the name of any former classmates or friends while at Columbia.
en.wikipedia.org...-one

NOTE: Root graduated as Valedictorian from his high school, Thornton-Donovan School , then graduated from Columbia University in 1983 as a Political Science major (in the same class as Barack Hussein Obama WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN IN).

Sir, you don't have to reply, I know it's a long read and could very possible bogus, I never attended a college or university, just the Army and The U.S. Government. I did know a lot of people though and still do.



[edit on 17-7-2010 by guohua]



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 12:42 AM
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reply to post by guohua
 


My friend, I just don't know what to say about the mysterious Barack Obama's past. Until he had entered the race for the Presidency, I had never heard of him...well, I had heard of him shortly before that when there was speculation as to whether or not he would throw his hat in the ring, but I knew nothing at all about him.

I have voted a straight Libertarian ticket for over 15 years now, so I have never really concerned myself with politicians outside of the Libertarian party. When Obama was first elected, I remained fairly silent on the job he had done, as I just do not think it right to judge any President on the first year in office.

Then came the passage of the so called Health Care Reform, and his involvement on that fiasco compelled me to speak my mind. Then there was the dubious Nobel Prize awarded him. The big question as to his eligibility is an interesting mystery, but thus far, it seems to remain just that, a mystery. A conspiracy theory, if you will.

Frankly, I do not think George W. Bush was "eligible" as President, in that I don't think the current position of POTUS is what our Constitutional Republic is about. Even the vaunted Ronald Regan, (I man I liked very much) did more to expand government than he did to restrain it. He may of paid lip service to limited government, but he expanded government just the same.

You know what I think? I think until recently, members of Congress loved the idea that all focus and attention has been placed on the POTUS. I think until recently, the American people paid little to no attention to what Congress was doing. I think the American people have placed to much reverence into what the SCOTUS thinks, and I think the American people, those who hold the inherent political power, have abdicated their own inherent political power in favor of expedience.

Even today, a time where more and more people are becoming more active in the political process, they are doing so, out of expedience. As the song goes; "Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose." As more and more people have less and less to lose, it becomes more expedient to actively work towards effective change. The problem, in my opinion, is that this change is still politics as usual, in that change is perceived as being who we elect into office, as if the only authority we the people have is to vote.

I have heard it all too often that the mark of a free country is the ability to elect its leaders. Having experience in the military, you must have some experience then, with the inherent dangers of following leader. If these leaders are dynamic leaders, they are leaders as dangerous as Napoleon, Hitler and Stalin, or Roosevelt, Nixon, Clinton, and now Obama.

Dynamic leaders are a product of an ignorant populace. The more ignorant the populace, the more likely a dynamic leader will surface, usually spouting off populist rhetoric to appease the masses who want nothing more than to be taken care of. This is what brought Obama into office, and whatever the facts are regarding his eligibility, it matters not, his mysterious rise to power is due to a populace who worships the POTUS as if it were a Monarchy. This American Monarchy is nothing new, and few challenged the dubious title of Camelot when this was ascribed to the Kennedy administration, and few question the wisdom of referring to the POTUS as the "most powerful man in the world".

The United States seems less powerful to not just the rest of the world, but to many Americans, because all that power has been transferred to a single person. The concentration of power does not increase power, it corrupts it. What made the once powerful nation of The United States so powerful was that this power was spread evenly among the people. This is the way to maintain power, to keep it evenly spread and protected from any centralization. This power, now centralized, still exists as power, and it is power that belongs to each and everyone of us. If The United States is to ever regain its greatness, it will not be by electing a leader who will take us back to greatness. It will be because we the people, told those who have usurped our Constitutional Republic to piss off.

If Barack Obama has perpetuated a fraud upon the American people and is not eligible per Constitutional mandate, the truth will come out. In the mean time, it is best to assume he has this "eligibility" and to focus on the clear and present usurpation's this man has perpetuated. Legitimate citizen or not, Barack Obama has usurped the office of the Presidency, and before him George Bush usurped this office, and before him, Bill Clinton, before him Bush's father, and even Ronald Regan, and the office of the POTUS has been usurped since at least Woodrow Wilson's day, possible further back.

In the end, it is not a string of consecutive political candidates who have usurped our Constitutional Republic, it is the king makers who have done so. It is those nameless, faceless people, that too many people love to ascribe the acronym TPTB to. They are the culprits, and they have pulled this nifty little trick off by the willing acquiescence of the American people.

Our Forefathers defied Great Britain back in 1775 and began a revolution sparked by an outrage over tax on tea. On tea, for Christ's sakes! At that time there was no such thing as an income tax. Imagine how an income tax would have gone over in 1790, or 1810, or 1840, but in 1913 when Congress levied an income tax in perpetuity most Americans barely batted an eye. Most Americans barely batted an eye, because the income tax was sold as a tax on the rich, and a wealth re-distribution scheme. As long as most Americans believed they would not be taxed, but receive the benefits of others being taxed, few had a problem with this odious tax, including the rich who were the ones supposedly being taxed. Suspicious? You bet it is!

The death of the Republic came when people began voting for "free" money, and this is when the ingenuity of Americans turned into a nation of plunderers. There is a reason pirate movies do so well at the box office in this country, and that is because we are a nation of pirates who love to plunder. It is not just the corporations who are plundering, it is most of us who are plundering. Instead of telling Congress to piss off with their perpetual income taxation scheme, Americans pay the damn tax. The irony of this is that most Americans can not explain how it is they are liable for that tax. If you can't explain how you are liable for the tax, what makes you so sure you are liable? Nobody really knows, because nobody really bothers to read the revenue laws that explain liability.

Instead of being a nation whose collective dream was to own their own business and be their own boss, we are now a nation who bemoans the loss of jobs, and we want our jobs back! If and when we get those jobs back, our employers will tell us that we must sign a government contract which is either a Form W-4 or a 1099. If we ask our employer why, that employer will explain that it is the law. If we ask our employer to show us what law they are referring to, they will resort to extortion and inform us that if we do not sign these government contracts they will not hire us. Instead of telling those employers to piss off, out of expedience, we acquiesce to the coercion and sign the contracts. That contract make us liable for sure. Whatever made us liable before that, nobody knows, but for sure, once the contract is signed, that contract serves as prima facie evidence of liability.

It was not Barack Hussein Obama who perpetuate that fraud upon the American people, as that fraud has been in place for nighe one hundred years now. If Barack Hussein Obama is not eligible then this fraud is just one more in a long line of many. The beauty of this current question of fraud, for the usurpers, is that most American's care more about this, than they do the fraud of income taxation. People would still rather pay the income tax, because people still want the government handouts, (plunder).

As we wake up and realize the mess we are in, some will point to treatise such as Henry David Thoreau's On Civil Disobedience, but this essay comes with a fatal flaw, as Thoreau recommends we take from the government what we can, and ignore them for the rest. The problem with that is that you can not take from a government and expect to be able to ignore them afterward. If we are ever going to bring The United States back to its former glory, we must ignore the government as it is today, and do what we must to bring it back to what it supposed to be. This means we must stop taking from this government, and just ignore them.

Elect officials yes, but fraudulently or not, Obama was elected. Now that he is elected, the only possible way he can be "the most powerful man in the world" is if we the people acquiesce to his assertions of power. I say non acquiescence is the key, and it is high time we tell this government to piss off. If you can not afford health insurance, then don't buy a policy, and do not accept a government hand out. Instead, create the wealth you need to purchase what you need, and only pay taxes on what you owe, and what you owe is only that for which you are liable for. If you do not know how you became liable for the so called income tax, make them prove you are. Make them prove it to a jury. Make them explain the law that nobody understands. Do you think they can? I doubt it.

This is how you tell a government to piss off, and this is what really matters. If we are to defeat the king makers, we must begin by asserting our own powers and becoming a nation of kings and queens in our own right. Let TPTB fight a nation of sovereign kings and queens.



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 12:52 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Elect officials yes, but fraudulently or not, Obama was elected.


We have no recourse to our own electoral system anymore. I don't know if you're familiar with the subject, but this thread should give you an idea of how far gone that system is from us.
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 04:42 AM
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Again I'll ask. Where are the Obama supporters in this thread? The tea party haters?

Where are you. Defend this obvious lie to us, show where we are wrong about him.

You didn't stand up in a thread about the tea parties being called rasist to the NAACP, where are you now to defend obamacare?

I said it before, I'll say it again. Trust obama, but if you do defend him, defend this thread. Or stay silent, like the cowards you are.



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


My Friend Thank You, Well Said, Well Said. I am one of many who knows what you've said to be true.

We need to take the power back and this Administration has woken many Americans to that fact.

[edit on 18-7-2010 by guohua]



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 12:44 PM
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Numerous investors, businesses and solar industry consultants involved or familiar with Chinese and other foreign investments in Arizona’s solar landscape declined or refused to comment on the nature of that financing and why many of the deals are kept private.


www.bizjournals.com...

Seems China is taking part in ATS to Guohua. that is a Chinese name right. So what is your agenda?


Confucius Institute at Arizona State University
The Arizona State University Confucius Institute offers a sustained source of knowledge about China for Arizona citizens through the following programs:

* Faculty exchanges between ASU and Sichuan University

* Public, socially embedded Chinese language and culture programs

* Symposia and lectures related to China

* K-16 Chinese language programs

* Professional training programs for teachers of Chinese in Arizona

* Support for overseas study for graduate students

* An intensive Chinese language summer program in Chengdu, Sichuan

ASU CI extends connections to the business community and actively seeks partnerships with local business professionals and corporations to offer Chinese culture and language training.

themandarincenter.org...

Is Arizona going Chinese?


Right-wing absurdly claims U.S. "apologizing" to China because of Arizona immigration law
May 17, 2010 7:19 pm ET by Kate Conway

Right-wing bloggers and Rush Limbaugh are pushing an absurd distortion of an AP report on a meeting on human rights to claim that the U.S. "apologized" to China over the Arizona immigration law. In fact, nothing in the reports indicates that the U.S. "apologized" to China.


mediamatters.org...

Whats up with China and Arizona?



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by JBA2848
 


Yes, Guohua is a Chinese name and yes I am Chinese by birth.
Until I meet my husband, if you'd taking the time to read our profile, I'm sure you'd see I have no agenda other than being an American which I'm very proud of being now. I will be the best American I can be and now I can vote, you should be assured I will not vote for Obama and nor will my husband.

I really hope you were asking that stupid question about my agenda as a joke, you really don't need to be afraid of little old me
just ask my husband.

Years ago, I will admit I had an agenda when I worked for the Chinese Peoples party, But no different than my husband who had an American agenda working for the American Government at the time we meet.

I Love America and hurts my heart to see what your Liberal Party and Obama as done to it.

And by the way, your Obama Administration did apologizes. The United States and China met over the weekend for a 2-day round of talks meant to move the Chinese government toward improving its human rights record. The talks had no real result except for laying the groundwork for more talks to come – and the bombshell that the American delegation brought up the Arizona immigration law as an example of American human rights abuses. From the AP:

Posner said in addition to talks on freedom of religion and expression, labor rights and rule of law, officials also discussed Chinese complaints about problems with U.S. human rights, which have included crime, poverty, homelessness and racial discrimination.

My father who still resides in China and still works for the Chinese Government, also heard about this Apology.
I will not say anything else other than America is my home and after every thing my husband went through to get his family to America, I can Dislike Illegals Very Much.

Source:wellsy.wordpress.com...

[edit on 18-7-2010 by guohua]

[edit on 18-7-2010 by guohua]



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 09:06 PM
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Of course it is a tax. It was always a tax and spend program creating over a hundred new and vastly expensive federal agencies we will all have to deal with one way or another.

It is also going to become a rationing program. How could it not when one of the biggest complaints from the supporters of it was that the last year of anyone's life is the most expensive? Better not have any premature babies or infants with birth defects as that too will be considered too expensive.

The hope is that people will have to wait so long for diagnostics and treatments that they just up and die without those things.

Just yesterday the new Health Care Czar announced that he was going to push through a public option so we are right back to an entirely socialized system. No doubt this will come at a high price for all those who actually pay taxes.



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 09:38 PM
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Hay there were a few on here back durring the flap that were calling it a tax. Way to go ATS.



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