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NASA Flight Director Confirms 9/11 Aircraft Speed As The "Elephant In The Room"

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posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by TiffanyInLA
 


We have seen that Deets has no experience in these aircraft and was only guessing with his probabilities. We know that no pilot on these boards has ever attempted to fly the aircraft under these conditions and in spite of all the handwaving, no one knows what is possible and what isn't possible.

We can be reasonably certain that there was no reason to modify any airframes nor was there a facile way to do it and substitute the aircraft without anyone discovering the hot engines or strengenthened airframe. As it is, there is no direct evidence of modifcation.

Given that, we are left with bad radar data, bad NTSB analyses, or planes that exceeded safety limits. It seems that analyses are not in error, so we must conclude that the speed was correct and the planes were caable of flight .




posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 07:16 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 07:23 PM
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Thanks Tiffany in LA! Now, I am now convinced that the American people have been lied to, and there are in fact factions STILL engaged in a cover up. Fortunately, their arguments have zero credibility, they cannot pay everyone with expertise to keep silent, and the true patriots will continue to stand up and be role models for our youth.
Perhaps by the tenth year anniversary, people like you will have made such a difference in increased awareness that we can get some justice served.
Thanks again for your excellent analysis of the facts.

Edit to change there to their, so they're.


[edit on 15-7-2010 by Stewie]



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 07:25 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by pteridine
Given that, we are left with bad radar data, bad NTSB analyses, or planes that exceeded safety limits. It seems that analyses are not in error, so we must conclude that the speed was correct and the planes were caable of flight .


Of course they were. I just got back from a business trip today. The little CRJ taxied up to the terminal and parked right next to a 767. I remembered how "TiffanyBob" equated a P-51 with a 767 with regards to airframe strength and just had to laugh. I explained to a querying co-worker that this Balsamo guy said the 767 would break up from overspeed forces before a P-51 would.

Its good and cathartic to share humor.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by ipsedixit
 


Apparently gravity is an issue with her "in person comment" and falling aircraft.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 08:54 PM
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You know none of this information really matters...truth is in any reality situation no hijacked plane would have got anywhere near Washington without being confronted by the military...



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 09:20 PM
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9/11 MADNESS
post removed because of personal attacks

Click here to learn more about this warning.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by TiffanyInLA
 


I notice you are getting heated and insulting people now.. After your chest comment, I had to un-ignore you. So, why the long face tiffany? It is not a hehe LMFAOROFLMFAO.

Look I understand that you don’t believe any part of 911.....There simply has to be some truth to the day... were they actually airplanes, were they actually buildings, were they actually people? But, come on... I watched your video.. I have read your posts.. I have not responded to any of the flight knowledge related statements (simply because I am ignorant when it come to the specifics of aviation), but you have not answered any questions.. You start this thread. You seemed to be able to debate well (at first).

Then, it is noticed that you are simply regurgitating info from every truther site on the net! So, people start asking you valid questions.... But you have no answers.. The people who wrote your thoughts have not expanded enough for you to answer these questions.. so you resort to flattering yourself and insults..

It’s rather pathetic, if you ask me.... Look at the bright side... The member by the name Stewie thinks you are the cat’s meow..

You could say Hitler was justified and he would cheer you on.. I would recommend you browse the net for a few days... So you can digest some more nonsense and then come back here and regurgitate it to us sheeple.

To say it again again. I don’t buy the entire story being fed.. But I am smart enough to know that this subject is utter nonsense!


[edit on 15-7-2010 by Mobius1974]

[edit on 15-7-2010 by Mobius1974]



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 10:22 PM
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9/11 MADNESS
post removed because of personal attacks

Click here to learn more about this warning.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by Mobius1974
 

No, Mo b.s., I think YOU are the cat's meow.


You are right here.. I am the master of my world!


Your supreme understanding of how one can ruin a thread is inspiring to those that aspire to such high heights of idiocracy.


Did I not just admit that I do not know the details of aviation.. But thanks for pointing that out captain obvious.



You have understood nothing the OP has offered, you have clearly demonstrated that.


There you truthers go again, shooting from the hip and insulting anyone that does not share your logic. (if you can call it that)



You have continually worked to change the subject, asking the OP for answers and opinions outside of the scope of the thread.
You have made emotional appeals that have nothing to do with the subject matter of the thread.


Have you read anything that I have written? The questions that I asked pertained to this subject AND ONLY this subject. This statement alone defines and proves your mental compass.



And, you promised you would go away, and you lied. So, you have no integrity.
Fitting.


Ok here we go.... Anyone want to see what back peddling looks like?

Please show me where I promised anything. Can you find me saying "I promise I am done here"? No, wait you can't... do you know why you can't.
Beause I never promised I wouldn't come back.It leads me to wonder ... How many 911 facts have you gotten wrong also? As to why I decided to respond.. member Stretchfacelong posted something that I simply could not ignore. Cant a member debate another member without some hormone driven kid turning it into a argument? How about you stop the insults and answer the questions for it, since it is clearly not planning on answering any questions outside of its flash points.






[edit on 15-7-2010 by Mobius1974]



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 11:50 PM
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LA Woman as you can no doubt see, the spooks are out in full force now....
which confirms that what you allude to is hurting them...


I have no interest in Needlepoint...

I steer clear of Needlepoint forums...

This is a standard human trait...


It has always stuck me as very suspicious when hordes of people seem to hover, on almost 24 hour standby, around the 9/11 conspiracy threads, insulting and mocking others whilst patronisingly advising that there is NO conspiracy...

If they don't believe that a 9/11 conspiracy exists, it seems laughable that they seem to spend sooooo much time here, arguing theres nothing to argue about.....


Clearly they know( as the majority of posts here confirm) that something is undeniably wrong with the events on that day when 3,000 people were murdered.....thats not even open to debate in my mind(and many others...),let alone the nasty baiting that can be seen repeatedly in this thread...


Keep your cool up LA Woman.....their tactics are clear.....and they are well trained, hunting in packs, trying to provoke you ....you have won the Moral Battle here....now to win the War...

I hope to see many more of your well thought out and presented threads soon here on ATS....



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 12:36 AM
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"If they don't believe that a 9/11 conspiracy exists, it seems laughable that they seem to spend sooooo much time here, arguing theres nothing to argue about..."

Either these people don't have much of a life (which is obvious), are insecure little twits who get their jollies from ridiculing others (also obvious), or are extremely threatened to see their despicable scam falling apart, piece by piece.

Whatever the case, it is better to have a conscience and stand on the right side of history, than to be a morally corrupt dirtbag who has to whore around and sell his soul for a paycheck or a pat on the back. Only someone with a very limited intelligence and no moral compass is capable of such behavior. Therefore, their constant juvenile and idiotic responses should come as no surprise to anyone.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 12:52 AM
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Originally posted by TiffanyInLA
Click here to learn more about this warning.[/url]



This whole "discussion" has turned around the claim by "Tiffany" that the aircraft in question were incapable of reaching the speeds that were calculated and recorded on 9/11 and if they *were* at those speeds, they should have broken up into itsy bitsy pieces.

Which is nothing but blatant speculation at best and hogwash at worst.

Some information, easily obtained from the web and other sources:

From Twenty –First Century Jet – The Making and Marketing of the Boeing 777, Karl Sabbagh

Page 320 (comments paraphrased)


A Pan AM 707 flying Paris – NY encountered CAT and began a dive to deck. Recovery occurred at 4.5 g’s (limit 3.75 g’s)

1965 outboard engine of a 707 exploded, destroying 25’ of wing. Plane circled around and landed (fuel load, etc)

767 static test aircraft subjected to test loads – the fuselage broke before the wings did.

777 wing test - wing failed at 154% beyond design specifications



In 1965, a 707 collided with a Constellation at 11,000, lost 35’ of wing. – a/c landed safely and the Connie, which lost a good portion of its tail, made a crash landing - only 2 passengers and the pilot, who had returned to the burning aircraft to rescue a passenger, died.

Bunches of military aircraft have had parts of their aircraft ripped off from midairs and from high-speed runs and still flown back to a base.

Then there was the 737 in January 2009 on a customer demonstration flight profile, entered into a 21,000 fmp dive at observed speed of above 440 indicated. A/C recovered (Vmo was exceeded by 100 knots). Oh yeah...that aircraft is still flying, as of Dec 2009 (www.airframes.org... )

Don't forget that the Concord had an MMO of 2.04, but the certification aircraft went up to M 2.23. It was one of the reasons the two certification aircraft (201 and 202) never went into service in the end. It was extremely difficult to assess how much of the aircraft's "life" (in terms of fatigue cycles) had been used up by the certification flights to the edges of the envelope.

The L1011 was flown well in excess of Vmo during flight test, and indeed, considering Mmo, which for the TriStar is M.90, flight test was performed...at M.98.

(links to the above available on request)

How about some wacky "Believe It or Not" aviation tidbits? How about the 71st Fighter Interceptor Squadron F-106 that got into a spin where the pilot - the only pilot - ejected at 12,000 feet and the aircraft made a perfect wheels up landing in snow-covered field? They hoisted it up, loaded it onto a railroad flat car, too it to a dept and repaired it - and it flew for a number more years. It now sits in the big AF museum at Wright Pat. I love this line from the article:


"Major Wolford got a call from the sheriff about an airplane sitting in a field with the engine running and wanted to know how to shut it off."


The point being is these aircraft can indeed exceed, sometimes to a large degree, the airspeed and structural integrity limitations set by manufacturers guidelines, which for passenger airliners is set very low for safety sake.

Stick a hijacker bent on crashing a 767 into a skyscraper - he'll do it, at as fast a speed as those big turbofans can get him.

Good thing Mr. Deets or "Tiffany" weren't around on the Concorde flight test team - the planes would have broken up as soon as they exceeded M 2.04.

I'm not claiming fraud here, but it sure doesn't look like Mr. Deets and "Tiffany" know what they is talking about. I smell an agenda. I also bet any rebuttal from "Tiffany" will have a link back to the Pilots for 9/11 Truth page along with a line "The list grows", since that is the only reason "Tiffany" is here.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 12:53 AM
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This thread has pretty much run it's course anyway. When people reiterate both questions and answers a thread turns from a conversation into a typing match. It starts to give the impression of a mobius strip in print.

A mobius strip appears to have two sides but it only has one.

I thought you weren't coming back mobius1974. But a mobius always comes back doesn't it?



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 12:56 AM
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Good,thread OP! S&F for ya!
It looks to me that you have came across a major find here when we have a NASA flight director telling us that there is something amiss with the planes speed then you should at least hear them out.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 04:59 AM
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reply to post by TiffanyInLA
 


TiffanyInLA, I think you are doing a wonderful job and I commend you for your hard work at debating the issues on this thread topic.
It has been awhile since I have seen this many negative debunkers tag teaming up on one individual. I have encounter most of them myself from time to time. We must remember the debunkers who support the OS are only supporting the proven lies.

What evidences do they have to support anything regarding the OS, nothing they have absolutely nothing, that is why these OS supporters are so frustrated, because they have nothing to support their version of the OS. The only thing left is to ridicule and insult the messengers because they are in denial or really do not want to know the truth and that is my opinion.

It is my opinion, that some debunkers are paid to sit on some of these boards and threads to deliberately railroad the topic because of the credible “sensitive information” that Truthers are able to prove that our government and military may have committed a false flag operation, anyway this comment deserves it’s own thread.

I have not seen a single debunker in here win a single debate with you, on your thread topic. I have not seen a single debunkers prove your information is wrong either; keep up the good work you are a true patriot.



[edit on 16-7-2010 by impressme]



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 05:49 AM
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All this ....and you've even seen the video footage?



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 06:31 AM
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reply to post by TiffanyInLA
 



On a day like Sept 11, the WTC Center is visible from Albany, Montauk, Philly and near Harrisburg.


Huh? Really? You do know, of course, that the earth is round and curves, right?

This statement tells me that basically you are full of it. I live there and the WTC is not visible from Albany unless you are in low earth orbit. You are clueless. Same goes for Philadelphia, Harrisburg, et al.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 06:57 AM
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reply to post by hooper
 

Does she mean from an airplane?

That would be my interpretation of what she said. Are you saying not even from an airplane?






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