It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Was Muhamed possessed?

page: 1
1

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 10 2010 @ 09:27 PM
link   
I'm not trying to bash Islam, or hate on Islam in any way. This is an objective analysis of the religion.

From what I know, Muhamed was "possessed" by the "Arch-Angel Gabriel" when he told his secretary what to write down to create the Koran.

Now, in Christian beliefs, if someone is possessed, it is either by the "Holy Spirit" or a "Demon" such as "Lucifer".

In other religious beliefs where possessions are common, such as Vodou, a person is possessed by a diety/spirit/god.

Now, if one were a Christian reading in the Bible's New Testament, they would notice the story of "The Temptation of Christ".

In that story, the Devil tempted Jesus. The Devil used many passages of the Old Testament, literally quoting scripture trying to convince Jesus.

Also, the Devil showed him all the kingdoms from a mountaintop, saying he could give Jesus all of them if he served Satan. This must mean the Devil is in control of all the kingdoms.

Now, first of all, Islam does not have a separation of church & state. Islamic Law controls many governments. If the Devil is in control of all the kingdoms, than any religion controlling a government serves the Devil.

Also, Muhamed, while possessed by "Gabriel", used many stories from the Old Testament in the creation of the Koran, in a similar way as the Devil used scripture of the Old Testament to tempt Jesus.

Muhamed's "Gabriel" also made rules & regulations, many of which are sexist, or unfair to non-Muslims. Also, it brought back such things as stoning women. Let me give an example of that over time:

1. Old Testament says to stone the adulteress.

2. Jesus says not to stone the adulteress.

3. The Koran says to stone the adulteress.

This brings me back to the separation of church & state. A true follower of Islam can't be compatible with a free and equal society. In the same way to be fair, a true Catholic cannot be pro-choice, or pro-gay-marriage. Those are just a couple examples. There are many more.

Any thoughts?




posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 04:45 AM
link   
Muhammad wasn't said to be "possessed" by the Angel Gabriel, just that he heard his voice, or sometimes saw him. He wasn't "controlled" by him (my general understanding of the term "possesed").



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 06:01 AM
link   

Originally posted by babloyi
Muhammad wasn't said to be "possessed" by the Angel Gabriel, just that he heard his voice, or sometimes saw him. He wasn't "controlled" by him (my general understanding of the term "possesed").
Muhammad told his wife the he thought he was becoming possessed and she told him, no that's just an angel of the Lord. So then this "angel" claims that God has no Son.

But we learn that the REAL Gabriel is the one who tells Mary that God will bear a Son through her. Muhammad was encountering a deceiving spirit, who presented himself as an angel of God, but was really a demon.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 02:42 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


That's a good addition. It couldn't have been the same Gabriel that announced God's son, then 600 years later says God has no son. Thanks.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 03:10 PM
link   
Certainly, if one were looking at the question from the point of view of a Christian, they would assume the position of Jesus being Son of/God to be the correct one, and the Islamic one to be wrong.

Of course, if one were muslim, they'd claim the exact opposite.

And at this point there would be a deadlock. Probably only solvable through a critical comparison of the Christian and Islamic scriptures- something far out of the scope of a thread on BTS.


But meanwhile, I shall return to watching the match. VIVA ESPAÑA!



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:51 PM
link   
Anyone who marries a 6 yr old girl and consimates the marriage at 9 years of age, has to be possessed by something.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 11:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by babloyi
Certainly, if one were looking at the question from the point of view of a Christian, they would assume the position of Jesus being Son of/God to be the correct one, and the Islamic one to be wrong.

Of course, if one were muslim, they'd claim the exact opposite.

And at this point there would be a deadlock. Probably only solvable through a critical comparison of the Christian and Islamic scriptures- something far out of the scope of a thread on BTS.


But meanwhile, I shall return to watching the match. VIVA ESPAÑA!


Christ miracles, prophecies, and being risen from the dead speak to Him being the Son of God.

Heck, even Christ's enemies admit He did the miracles, however, they attribute it to Him being some sort of "magician". He most certainly was raised from the dead, His risen body was seen by over 500 witnesses in Jerusalem, not to mention all the apostles turned from hiding cowards immediately after His death on the cross, into fearless apostles unto brutal deaths after they witnessed Him risen.

NO MAN dies willingly for a lie, let alone 12.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by NOTurTypical]



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 01:28 AM
link   
Muhamed was not possessed, nor did he hear/see the "Archangel Gabriel". He was a Warlord who saw the power that Christianity and Judaism had over it's followers, and created a "Religion" with himself as the central figurehead here on Earth, the "Prophet". One need only to see how Islam controls every aspect of one of it's follower's life to see that this is the ultimate goal of Islam, total control of the entire human race...

With that said, I'm sure I'll have a Fatwah issued calling for my execution shortly... Yippee!


[edit on 12-7-2010 by JaxonRoberts]



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 01:38 AM
link   
reply to post by Carseller4
 

See, the problem is that there is no confirmation that these are the ages. Calculations through some of the narrations give ages all the way up to 16/18.

The major point is that she was mature.


reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Hey, NOTurTypical!
Muslims also believe that Christ performed many great miracles, but definitely don't call him a "magician". They just say that it doesn't mean he's Son of God. Moses also performed miracles. Many of the other prophets performed miracles, gave prophecies, etc.

And unfortunately, dying for one's cause is not proof. People can be mistaken or even misunderstood.

But all that is besides the point. Once again, while some of what you may say is true, it comes back to Quran vs. Bible. The only confirmation we have that Jesus is Son of God is from some interpretations of the Bible. The only confirmation that Jesus was crucified/died for our sins is from the Bible. The only confirmation that the disciples and his other followers believed him to be Son of God/risen from the dead is in the Bible.

Now if one believed in the Bible, this would be all well and good. But otherwise, it again comes down to this book vs. that book.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts
 

There's got to be SOME reasoning given for all the otherwise unexplainable stuff...in order to not have to question their own faith, when unable to find a suitably derogatory answer, some people resort to "devil inspired" or "demonically possessed".

PS: It is spelt Gandhi, not Ghandi. Ghandi is what sounds like a naughty word in hindi
.

[edit on 12-7-2010 by babloyi]



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 10:32 AM
link   
Another interesting note is they have direct quotes of Jesus in the Koran that contradict the character of Jesus in the Bible. However if you look into it the Bible was written about 70 years after Jesus and the Koran was written about 700 years after Jesus so the most likely accurate quotes I could look for in the Bible.

One of the quotes I am referring to in the Koran is when God ask Jesus why he equated him self and his mother with God and Jesus pretty much responds that he is sorry and wont do it again.

However all through out the Bible he never equates his mother with God however he does equate him self with God in more ways than one. One example is the beginning of John where it states "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God... And the word became flesh and dwelt among us... referring to Jesus." Jesus him self was recorded stating I and the father are one. Basically that he was a portion of the Spirit of God in a man but that God was not totally contained in Jesus and you notice that Jesus communicates back to the rest of his body by prayer fulfilling the plan of God.

The plan of God that God had set in motion since way earlier when Abraham almost sacrificed his son at Gods command and then God substitutes the Lamb instead of his son (symbolic of the Lamb of God Jesus) but in Old testament. Not to forget Psalms 22 (old testament) I believe it is that is all about Jesus on the Cross.

[edit on 12-7-2010 by forevereternal]



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 02:49 PM
link   
reply to post by forevereternal
 

Heylo forever!

I think you're mixing it up. Jesus in the Quran was sinless. He didn't equate himself OR his mother to God in the Quran (in fact, he emphatically states even in the Bible that he is less than the Father). What he WILL SAY is:


Surah Al-Maidah, Verse 115
And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

(sorry for the flowery old englishy translation, it is the one I remember)

PS: I'm not too fond of this "portion of god" theory...it seems to imply polytheism.

[edit on 12-7-2010 by babloyi]



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 05:58 PM
link   
Some of you are going off on tangents.

I started with Muhamed and his relationship with Gabriel, and how the Koran was written. Also, that Islam does not have a separation of church & state.

The trinity, by the way, is not polytheistic. Jesus / Holy Spirit / the "Father" = all One God. The three names are different names to describe God. For example, God while on earth has the name of Jesus. At least that is the Christian view.

I try to be objective. Religions interest me greatly, all of them, and I try to keep myself as knowledgeable as possible. I don't consider myself as having one religion. I believe in several religions, which I think helps me to be objective.

(If you haven't noticed, Islam isn't one of the religions I believe in yet. I'm definitely far from convinced.)



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 11:32 PM
link   
reply to post by bettermakings
 

At the risk of going off on another tangent, I wasn't saying the trinity was polytheistic, just that forevereternal's interpretation of it appeared to be.

Religions interest me greatly as well, but I have to admit, the trinity seriously confuses me. It might have been okay if there was just one consistent view on it among Christiandom, but there is not. Already in this thread, there are 2 different interpretations of it. Your one, however, doesn't really seem to fit the biblical narrative (technically, neither does forevereternal's)- for example, many times throughout the Bible, Jesus is speaking to God, saying how he is less than God, how he may perhaps not have the same desires.

There is this thread going on currently also in BTS, with several different views on the trinity.

Sorry for the tangent again!


EDIT: Perhaps in an attempt to get back on topic, I just noticed something from your original post: The Quran doesn't say anything about stoning of women. In fact, there is no mention of stoning at all in the Quran.

[edit on 12-7-2010 by babloyi]



posted on Jul, 23 2010 @ 12:34 PM
link   
reply to post by babloyi
 


Thats the point I am getting at. Jesus said he was God and this verse in the korean denies Jesus said he was God so it tries and contradicts what Jesus was quoted saying in the Bible. However Jesus words were recorded 70 years after his death in the bible and about 700 years later in the koran.

In no way am I implying Jesus is separate from God. Jesus is recorded saying I and the father are one. They are one and the same. God can take a portion of him self out and manifest in a physical form but it is still God. This is what I was talking about the quote in 1st John. This offended the Jews at the time so much a few times they were going to stone Jesus. It was like blasphemy to them.

Now if you take it that Jesus is not who he said he was then you would have to imply polytheism or just deny who he said he was but that is not what the Bible implies.

What it does in fact is deny Jesus is who he said he was so it comes down to which do you believe?

[edit on 23-7-2010 by forevereternal]

[edit on 23-7-2010 by forevereternal]



posted on Jul, 23 2010 @ 01:00 PM
link   
reply to post by forevereternal
 

But see, here is the problem: There are many very devout christians who do not believe that Jesus is God, AND they use the Bible as backing. On this very forum, daily, there are debates about whether Jesus was God, Son of God (in some sort of exclusive way) Son of God (in a way we can all be Sons of God), etc. Even among those who believe in the trinity, there is no consensus. Some say that Jesus is the SAME as God, some say he is like a "piece of God", some say he is a completely separate person, but together with the Father and Holy Spirit, make "God". Some people never thought about it, because the trinity is damnably confusing!

Jesus never explicitly said he was God, so you can see how it gets a little confusing.
If you read the verse you quoted in context (try at least John 10:27-30), you will see what Jesus is talking about. It isn't about being God. In fact, the verse you quoted CANNOT mean that Jesus is the same as God, because later on in John 17:20-24, the SAME word for ONE is used, and this time refers to "Jesus being one with us, as he is one with God". Obviously, when Jesus says he is ONE with God, he doesn't mean he is the SAME as God, otherwise, according to him, we could ALL be the same as God.

Some people may believe this, but I get the feeling you do not.


EDIT: Thanks for the links, SevenThunders, they were hilarious!

It'd be pretty funny if anyone actually attempted to learn anything about Islam from them, though, seeing how incredibly biased they are.

[edit on 23-7-2010 by babloyi]

[edit on 23-7-2010 by babloyi]



posted on Jul, 23 2010 @ 01:08 PM
link   
Jesus said, "by their fruits you shall know them". What are the fruits of Muhammed and his religion? We know that Muhammed was a pedophile, having 'married' a 9 year old. He personally ordered the gruesome slaughter of 500 Jews because they would not convert, and he encouraged his followers to rape and pillage unbelievers. Some of the details of his 'exploits' culled from Muslim holy scriptures can be found here:

crazyislam.typepad.com...
Muhammeds Character

When one also considers that currently the majority of the worlds wars involve or were started by Muslim agitators, i can only draw one conclusion. Muhammed was possessed by a demon, a fallen angel serving satan.

[edit on 23-7-2010 by SevenThunders]

[edit on 23-7-2010 by SevenThunders]



new topics

top topics



 
1

log in

join