Judge declares US gay-marriage ban is unconstitutional

Originally posted by OldDragger

ATS has the most hypocrytical posters on earth!
You caterwaul about rights, the evil government and the Constitution constantly, YET YOU CANNOT GRASP THAT CIVIL RIGHTS ARE NOT A POPULARITY CONTEST!
It doesn't matter what the freaking majority thinks! Majority rule is not part of the constitution!!! Get a basic education.
I have yet to hear ANYTHING CLOSE to a compelling reason to declare gay marriage illegal. All I hear is your same stupid religious arguments, FORCING your religious beliefs into law.
You people are simply prejuduced, irrational and ignorant.

The "we the people" is the majority and it's in the Constitution. Over 31 states have stopped gay marriage. How come you don't howl about judges forcing their gay marriage rulings on citizens who have voted against gay marriage? How about the gays forcing their lifestyle on others? Can you howl about that?
So if I disagree with you then I'm prejudice, irrational and ignorant? Hogwash.

Originally posted by mryanbrown

Religious institutions have already undermined and disenfranchised themselves already. The moment they registered as a 501(c)3 they sacrificed their religious Ecclesiastical law for Federal regulations governing approved religious organizations. It also takes their ability to provide "sanctuary" away like Catholic churches used to be able to provide as they are now under Federal jurisdiction.
Heterosexuals undermined faith-based marriage the moment they applied for a marriage license. Taking the union away from God, and are instead requesting permission from the government.

Render unto Caesar...en.wikipedia.org...

You want to talk about religion. You are following beast law above the law of God. More so you are following the Old Covenant law of God rather than the New Covenant law of Jesus.

Umm? I believe your reply to another on this thread was Judge not, lest ye be judged...and also you mentioned something about letting he who is perfect cast the first stone?
I vote against same sex marriage, I support groups that politically work against it. But do I rebuke homosexuals? Do I decry their perversions? I am not really in a position to do that...for I have a fair share of perversions and sins under my belt already. I can't cast the first stone, and certainly don't want to be judged at this point in my life!

Learn your own religion before you attempt to transpose it upon another.

I am glad you are psychic and can read my religious beliefs...Could you let me know, cause I am not so sure about it myself!

[edit on 9-7-2010 by blamethegreys]

Originally posted by 6minutes212
reply to post by texastig

 

"I believe that adopting same-sex marriage would be likely to improve the well-being of gay and lesbian households and their children."

That's from the wikipedia on the man that the article you sited was about. This is all nonsense, we all know our views differ, but there is no need for calling gay people immoral, or treating it like a disease that the community is set out to spread. It's just ridiculous.

Yes, our views differ. Gay people are immoral because there's right and wrong and good and bad. It's not even natural having gay sex. It sure is a disease because the LBGT community has the highest rate of diseases.

Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by texastig

 

So who is asking about God's word? Why can't you believe what you want, BUT LEARN TO MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS?
I, and a whole lot of American citizens couldn't care less about what you consider "God's word"!

I don't have to mind my own business when the gay community is forcing their perverted lifestyle on society and children.
Over 31 states believe that marriage is between a man and woman just like the Bible says it should be.

Originally posted by blamethegreys
Render unto Caesar...en.wikipedia.org...

Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's is discussion taxation and the materialistic currency of the beast system. It was not an excuse from Jesus to follow the law of Ceasar. It simply stated that Jesus did not care about materialistic endeavors. Only what was in your heart.

Umm? I believe your reply to another on this thread was Judge not, lest ye be judged...and also you mentioned something about letting he who is perfect cast the first stone?

Telling you not to judge others, is not the same as judging you. But if you have an actual citation to quote which shows I was judging. I'm happy to rebut it.

I am glad you are psychic and can read my religious beliefs...Could you let me know, cause I am not so sure about it myself!

I never pretended to know your religious beliefs. You are quoting the Old Covenant as your basis for Christian oppression. Secondly as you are quoting from the Old Testament.

There are only 10 laws from God. None of which mention homosexuality. All of your religious excerpts against it come from normal men who are capable of error.

Originally posted by texastig
The "we the people" is the majority and it's in the Constitution

Wrong. We the People is EVERYONE. Not Majority rule.



[edit on 9-7-2010 by mryanbrown]

Why should government be involved with marriage at all?

Originally posted by mryanbrown
Getting an STD has absolutely nothing to do with low morals.

Yes, it does. People go around like like animals having sex and no self respect.

Originally posted by mryanbrown
So is an STDless safe-sex homosexual couple morally upright because they didn't get an STD?

No, they aren't morally upright.

Originally posted by Parallex
Something tells me we will see the right-wing and religious christian 'crazies' turn up on this thread to denounce your support of liberty for gay folks.

I agree with you OP - equal rights FOR ALL. Let's hope this good trend continues.

Parallex.

Well rights for the gays is one thing....but really the gas of a judge somewhere thinking he/she can define marriage outside of a male female thing is just amazing. Thats what marriage is a male and female union. The gays should call thiers something else because it is something else.

Originally posted by Gorman91
Why should government be involved with marriage at all?

They shouldn't. But there is money and power involved, so they are. The sooner that can be changed, the better.

reply to post by texastig


The "we the people" is the majority and it's in the Constitution. Over 31 states have stopped gay marriage. How come you don't howl about judges forcing their gay marriage rulings on citizens who have voted against gay marriage? How about the gays forcing their lifestyle on others? Can you howl about that?
So if I disagree with you then I'm prejudice, irrational and ignorant? Hogwash.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are sadly uniformed. Civil rights are not determined by "majority rule". I don't care if you believe otherwise, you are simply wrong.
You are not prejudiced, irrational and ignorant because you disagree, you are because you are prejudiced, irrational and ignorant. Even if I agreed with you that would be the case.
It's not enough for you and many other fundamentalists to practice your own religion, you seek to codify your personal religious beliefs into law. You use self serving "logic" to further your personal religious agenda.
Theocracy is probably the most evil and sinister form of government, and, even if you can't be honest about it, that is what you want.
Sorry, freedom is for everyone to live as they choose, not determined by your idea of "God's laws".
End of debate.

reply to post by Doc Gator


Actually there is no money, considering the tax breaks.

Originally posted by Yissachar1
YAH BARUCH!! Some of the so-called Christians on this site really grind my gears with their pathetic attempts of using religion to vent their inherant bigotry and vile attitudes.... For a start it is not our job to judge folks but to love on them without condition... When you become Christian you lose the right to be a venom filled hater to one who SHOWS love... All your stinking attitude proves is that you havent really been to the cross and havent Surrenderd yourself wholly... You cling onto you flesh decrying all thst is wrong but not showing Gods love to those you hate.. Who are you to withdraw gods love from ANYONE?! You attitudes keep them from church, your attitudes deny these people from knowing God and you become an instriment of satan by doing what Yeshua said in Mathew 23 "For you shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men. For you do not go in youselves nor do you allow those who want to enter to go in either"..... Hypocrites! You are guilty for the damnation of many... And probably yourselves

That's interesting. What do you say when Jesus said, "Don't go and sin no more"? How about when the Bible says those people who live in that lifestyle won't go to Heaven?
It is love trying to pull people from falling off the cliff of homosexuality.

Originally posted by Gorman91
They made sperm from a woman's bone marrow....

Cool. Does it kill the mood to ask you partner for bone marrow? I know some people get turned off just fighting a condom wrapper.

From what I read it could be another 5 years before they get actual working sperm and if everything goes well the tests might eventually be tried in humans. The down-side is that it has to be injected into male testicles to work. Pretty much rules out this being a solution for female couples unless they figure out a way for females to grow testicles.

Originally posted by texastig

Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by texastig

 

So who is asking about God's word? Why can't you believe what you want, BUT LEARN TO MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS?
I, and a whole lot of American citizens couldn't care less about what you consider "God's word"!

I don't have to mind my own business when the gay community is forcing their perverted lifestyle on society and children.
Over 31 states believe that marriage is between a man and woman just like the Bible says it should be.

Bible or no the homosexuals should stop crying when some that dont agree with them speak out. Teaching children in public schools about gay unions and dont want anyone to stand up to you? I pay taxes down there for one thing and that my child for another and this is still the US/right to freedom of speach.....so wow! Your allies in the school system already do without asking anyway and yous still cry about this and that. Get a grip!

reply to post by OldDragger


I know that the fundementalist have over the years been the primary outspoken in the bible word about gays....but hay this isnt an issue that only fundementalists are fighting nor is eveyone a fundementalist that fights it. Lots of good fair minded people out there that dont even go to chruch dont like this.

Originally posted by mryanbrown

Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's is discussion taxation and the materialistic currency of the beast system...

And it was in relation to you saying churches sellout when then file 501(c)3, as do couples who file for a marriage license. I was making the point that Christ taught to 'render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.'

Telling you not to judge others, is not the same as judging you. But if you have an actual citation to quote which shows I was judging. I'm happy to rebut it.

I wasn't accusing you of judging me, I was using your logic from another reply on myself. After all you originally accused me of 'following beast law above the law of God' or something. I'm still a little hazy on wth that even means. I was using your words to point out that I am not judging people or casting stones myself, cause I am not without sin.

I never pretended to know your religious beliefs. You are quoting the Old Covenant as your basis for Christian oppression. Secondly as you are quoting from the Old Testament.

OK, this kinda kills me here. Yes, you implied you knew my religion by saying "Learn your own religion before you attempt to transpose it upon another. " Where am I quoting "Old Covenant"? Please review and post my "Christian Oppression". And finally, where am I quoting old testament?

Maybe you got confused in your rage...My OP was concerning the slippery slope that might present itself if gay marriage was the law of the land, and it's effects on the current religious climate. Just a theory, no hate mongering, no bible thumping. More of an anthropological view than a religious one...Why the backlash against me, without even addressing the entire point of my post?

Originally posted by mryanbrown
Christianity is a cult following, I'm sorry that because you see the word "cult" you become offended because YOU negatively associate it with bad cults. A cult is a cult.

Christianity is not a cult. It is main stream and it's been that way since the founding of the American nation.

Originally posted by mryanbrown
Secondly, yet again. The Old Testament, otherwise known as the Old Covenant is NOT Jesus. Hence is not Christianity.

I agree with that.

Originally posted by mryanbrown
Jesus released EVERYONE from the rules of the Old Covenant so that they may follow the new Covenant.

The Old Covenant was for the Jews.
Jesus said that marriage is between a man and woman and it's been that way since the beginning. Jesus told people who sinned "to sin no more".

Originally posted by mryanbrown
So stop quoting the Old Covenant as basis for your Christian morals.

I never quoted any Old Covenant.

Originally posted by mryanbrown
As a Christian it should solely be the New Covenant. Otherwise known as the teachings of Jesus.

That is correct.

Originally posted by mryanbrown
Jesus clearly said let he who is without sin cast the first stone, ie judge. You are guilty of sin. As am I. Therefore neither of us are worthy in his eyes to be judge. Only he is worthy.

Jesus forgave people and told them "to go and sin NO MORE".
Paul states that people who live in the homosexual lifestyle will not go to Heaven.
I'm not guilty of sin because my sins have been forgiven. If I'm a hypocrite then that's wrong. But I'm not.

Originally posted by mryanbrown
You are to love your enemies as your neighbor, and treat them with the kindness and compassion and you would expect regardless of what they have done.

No human is my enemy but sin is. We love the sinner but not the sin. Remember God is a God of justice.

Originally posted by mryanbrown
Your years of being a "Christian" are meaningless. It's what you have learned and what is in your heart. Not how long it's taken you to get there.

My years of being a Christian have taught me that it's God's or the highway.
My heart tells me to go and help people who are caught up in sin. That's what Jesus did.
Rom 6:1
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Originally posted by AmericanDaughter
People keep voting down gay marriage.

The majority keeps voting no on this issue.

I'm pretty sure this makes it consitutional
especially compared to some of the amazing stuff that does pass for constituional so having a judge in Mass. say it isn't,
doesn't mean all that much here.
Right!?

Excellent!!!

I very rarely post here, but this is a subject that interests me hugely. I am a 'straight' guy in my mid thirties and to me the notion of two men having sex is completely repulsive to me on an internal level. I cannot conceive a way that one man could find another man sexually or otherwise attractive. (strangely enough, I dont have these problems when it comes to 2 women, but then I can understand what a woman finds attractive in another female, as I find those same things attractive.

My personal belief is that Marriage should be between 1 man and 1 woman and thats it. This has nothing to do with anything in the bible, its just my natural instinct. In fact about the only thing that compares to my feeling on this is my complete and utter hatred of organised religion. I genuinely believe that anyone who is a part or subscribes to any form of organised religion to be in 1 of 3 groups.

99% of these people are sheep who have no ability to think for themselves otherwise they would realise that you dont need to go to a place of worship to speak to whatever god you believe in, if he is truely everywhere at all times and in all places, he can hear your prayers just as well at home as he can in a church. They would be aware of the fact that most of the bible or whatever book they subscribe to is nonsense. It may have started out differently, but through the flawed hand of man is now nothing more than a story book. Of the other 1%, .0.8% are people who are in positions of power in whichever organisation and are there becuase they like the power that comes with it and abuse it as much as they can. Then there is the last 0.2% which are people in the sort of mid power seats that genuinely want to help people.

Heres the thing though, even though these are my deep seated beliefs, they are wrong, both of them. I wont ever change my mind, but i recognise that they are both totally stupid. A gay couple has as much right to form a union as a straight couple. Love is love at the end of the day and as long as the 2 people involved are marrying for the right reasons, then all power to them.

As to the bible saying that being gay is an abomination. Well theres lots of things I could say to that. But its already been said better, by better people than me. Theres a TV Series I really enjoy from the states called The West Wing and theres a scene in there that struck a huge cord with me, watch it for yourselves and see what I mean.

Originally posted by Captain Obvious

Originally posted by texastig
Babies thrive better with a mom and dad and that is a fact.

Babies can only be created by a mom and a dad. That's another fact that escapes the minds of same-sex marriage activist when they talk about parental rights. I guess the up-side is that they don't have to put those "My kid is an honor student" stickers on their cars. Do you know how hard those are to remove?

Excellent!!!