Illegal or Immigrant and Double Standard

giving more power to the cops? how is this giving more power to them?

1.we have to show id to buy beer
2.open a bank account we need to show id and a SSN(far more invasive then showing id)
3.to buy cigarettes we have to show id
4if were pulled over we have NO choice but to show ID otherwise we will be arrested
5.to rent a car guess what id is required
6 to get a loan u need to provide id and ssn
7.to get a drivers lisence you have to show ID
8.to buy a fire arm we have to show id and open up confidental medical records in some cases
9.if a police officer asks you YOU legaly have to show id or face charges and jail time as well as a fine
10.to obtain a credit card you need to show id and a ssn

if people are complaining were giveing police more power why would they want non citizens to have more power then citizens
why is it ok for one group of people to flout the laws and regulations of our country when others went throught the proper channels and did it legaly they paid money to become citizens why do the illegals get it for free

IMMIGRATION has ALWAYS been regulated since the birth of our nation we didn't just let any one in there have always been quotas

why are all you apologists trying to take away the rights of LEGAL us citizens and give them to what amounts to a group of illegal trespassers i can tell you if some one tried to come into my home and set up shop id blow a hole big enough in there chest to make the next ones think twice and put there head on a pike in the front lawn as a warning to the rest of the illegals go a head call me a racist im actually half Mexican but that half that is IS A LEGAL Mexican which is why i get fed up with these people expecting us to make there lives better just cuz there country sucks why dont they fix there own country if they dont like it so much instead of bringing there problems to our country
this site is about denying ignorance and i sure see a whole lot of ignorance going on here

they aren't the whole problem for our economic problems but they are a contributing factor and if we don't start fixing our country even if its in slow steps we will end up like the Romans and be studied in books and laughed at by future historians for letting what amounts to a barbarian horde destroy our country and before u jump on me for being racist look at the Romans they invited various members of the "barbarian tribes" to serve in there senate and it led to there betrayal are we going to let them in to do the same to us HISTORY is repeating its self and the feds aren't doing a dang thing about it but promising to open the flood gates

if you like democracy you support the majority's view and the majority of us citizens oppose amnesty and SUPPORT Arizona's laws so those that call us racist can then i guess call 52% of Americans racist too cuz they support it and if u disagree with it then you seem to want a dictatorship ie you want what you want cuz YOU think tis right that seems like a dictatorship to me

oh yeah and play the Regan card cuz he tried amnesty once already look what it accomplished i sure as hell didn't vote for him so by all means keep trying to blame Reagan for this one too( i dont even like the guy so make fun of his Alzheimer infested butt all you want)

and the comparison to Nazi Germany is= false i don't see us making Hispanics illegal or otherwise wear little yellow stars i don't see them being rounded up and gassed made to do slave labor or put in camps so go try that argument too its equally wrong and pointless to try that argument

sorry for the unstructured rant its how my brain works this is the best i could do this is my opinion and nothings gonna change it

Originally posted by peck420
K J Gunderson


Just have to make me work don't ya

.

www.azleg.gov...

Please read Article 8, C-F.

Basically it gives the state police the ability to force the issue with the local ICE office.

So what does it do to assist the underfunded and understaffed ICE? Aside from asking for ID like any other cop in any other state who is detaining someone for a crime, what does it do to help?

I think that the ideas is if enough state police start dumping illegals into ICE facilities, it will force ICE to do SOMETHING.

So ICE is just sitting on it's hands right now waiting for someone to point illegals out?

Also, if you go to page 7, Sec. 6. Section 23-212, it gives the state police the right to charge employers that are knowingly employing illegals.

How does it facilitate this in any manner different or new to the previous existing law?

Both of these were federal only before, where they not?

Not really sure but they were already against the law and ICE was already over burdened so again, I am not getting the point.

Originally posted by SeenMyShare
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

This is only my opinion and is not a statement of fact and as such there is no source.
I feel that the paperwork involved is too time consuming for most police officers to be bothered with turning the illegals over to the immigration authorities, and the immigration authorities don't really want the paper work or the hassle either.

You may be right about that.

I do not see how more legislation will help cops who are already too busy or too lazy to enforce the laws they have now.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


All of the things you have listed are valid points, but I don't think Arizona can change any of that.

I think, and this is my personal opinion nothing more, that Arizona is trying to force the fed's to do something.

Wether that something is to increase ICE budget and capabilities or to pave the way for states to self administor illegal immigrants straight to the border is unknown to me.

I will say that the doing something is a lot better than doing nothing. Even if it just means that you go down fighting.

spelling check

[edit on 7-7-2010 by peck420]

reply to post by peck420


I wonder if it all boils down to money? Is it cheaper to allow the illegals to stay than it is to round them up and send them home?

Originally posted by peck420
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

All of the things you have listed are valid points, but I don't think Arizona can change any of that.

Which seems like a good reason to not bother wasting tax payer time to write new laws when there is no change to be made with it.

I think, and this is my personal opinion nothing more, that Arizona is trying to force the fed's to do something.

I think you may be right but I see that as nothing more than a political maneuver to fool people into praising one person with no solution over another person with no solution simply by making the problem worse.

If someone does not have the tools to do a job (such is the case with ICE) then forcing them to do that job anyway only leads to the failure of that job being done, right? So to me, if you are right and I think you might be, they are not actually addressing the illegal immigration problem, they are only highlighting blame.

Wether that something is to increase ICE budget and capabilities or to pave the way for states to self administor illegal immigrants straight to the border is unknown to me.

Well, I guess there could be that hope. I would not get too excited about it becoming reality though.

I will say that the doing something is a lot better than doing nothing. Even if it just means that you go down fighting.

spelling check

[edit on 7-7-2010 by peck420]

I guess I just still do not see where they are doing anything with this new bill. They already were REQUIRED to check ID on anyone detained for a crime and if they were not reporting illegals then it seems that would be the fault of the AZ police who check ID and fail to report illegals.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


The way I understand it is that only ICE officers can ask about immigration status. Any cop can ask for ID but not for proof of citizenship. Even if the police officer believes that the person is illegal his hands are tied.

The AZ law allows the officer to ask about immigration status and detain the person if they can't prove that they are legal.

Here is probably why the feds are mad and I wonder if this would make a difference in the recent lawsuit but ICE offers:

The ICE 287(g) Program: A Law Enforcement Partnership

The 287(g) program, one of ICE’s top partnership initiatives, allows a state and local law enforcement entity to enter into a partnership with ICE, under a joint Memorandum of Agreement (MOA), in order to receive delegated authority for immigration enforcement within their jurisdictions.

If you go to the page it shows that AZ has been working with them since 2005.

Originally posted by SeenMyShare
reply to post by peck420

 

I wonder if it all boils down to money? Is it cheaper to allow the illegals to stay than it is to round them up and send them home?

Seeing as how they come here for jobs and we all know they get hired I would say you are on to something. It is about money. I think it is about the money given to politicians by the "American" companies that depend on illegal labor to do business in America.

I do not believe any politicians I have seen really care what anything is going to cost you or me or their kids in the future when it comes to big business contributions.

My biggest problem with the whole illegal argument is that I do not understand how the anger can be so high against the immigrants and yet nary a peep about the people employing them.

I expect an illegal immigrant to subvert the law, it is part of the definition of illegal immigrant. It does not make it right to me but I expect it.

I expect American companies to want to keep money in America and follow legal channels that lead to paying taxes in America to contribute to the society that sustains them and to follow American laws because American laws protect and provide for them. It does not make it any more or less right or wrong when they subvert the law but shouldn't we expect better from them than someone illegal to begin with?

reply to post by K J Gunderson


You have hit the nail on the head because....
American companies don't care about the US, they care how much money they can stuff into their pockets.

If there were no jobs to be had if one were an illegal there would be no reason to come here. I agree with you 100%. Go after the employers of illegals and the problem will be half solved.

As long as there are illegals willing to work for less than minimum wage there will always be companies that will hire them to save a buck.

Money... the whole damn thing boils down to money.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

The way I understand it is that only ICE officers can ask about immigration status. Any cop can ask for ID but not for proof of citizenship. Even if the police officer believes that the person is illegal his hands are tied.

That is the closest thing to a real answer I have ever gotten to this by far. I have to check into that but it still seems redundant. If you are illegal, you would be using fake ID and that is already something that is kind of part of the job to look out for. So if a fake ID is detected, then they have the authority to investigate as to who the person is.

Now does the AZ bill mean anyone found with fake or no ID can be detained until such time as identity is confirmed and other states have to let them go?

The AZ law allows the officer to ask about immigration status and detain the person if they can't prove that they are legal.

What steps does it allow them to take in order to actually determine the true identity of the person that other states can not do? Legal status would be something that comes up in the discovery of true identity so how does this law give AZ an edge other states or previous law did not allow?

Here is probably why the feds are mad and I wonder if this would make a difference in the recent lawsuit but ICE offers:

The ICE 287(g) Program: A Law Enforcement Partnership

The 287(g) program, one of ICE’s top partnership initiatives, allows a state and local law enforcement entity to enter into a partnership with ICE, under a joint Memorandum of Agreement (MOA), in order to receive delegated authority for immigration enforcement within their jurisdictions.

If you go to the page it shows that AZ has been working with them since 2005.

So they could already work with ICE but instead they thought it would be better to instead concentrate on dropping more work on ICE without providing a means to help them handle it better?

I guess then it goes back to trying to force the hand in which case who knows.

Thanks to you guys for finally actually giving me some decent answers to these questions. I have asked more than a few times and this is the first time anyone gave me anything to think about.

Originally posted by groingrinder

Originally posted by earthdude
Driving over the speed limit is agaist the law. Does anybody expect to be thrown out of the country for speeding? No, you have a double standard. You complain about law breakers and break the law every day by speeding. An illegal alien is not risking anybody's life, so, logically his crime should have less of a punishment than the crime of speeding.

Most of us do not speed and if we did speeding is not stealing identities of legal citizens, nor is it working under the table to avoid taxes, nor is it driving without insurance, nor is it stealing cars and taking them to Mexico, nor is it going to emergency rooms and not paying your bills, nor is it committing crimes and returning to Mexico to avoid prosecution, nor is it invading people's homes to steal from them, nor is it setting up criminal enterprises commonly called gangs.

Most of you do speed. Try driving the speed limit and notice how most traffic passes you. The vast majority of illegal aliens do not break other laws. Yes, taxpayers are the victims of illegal alien crimes but the money we lose from not opening the borders is much greater.

This is not about the color of their skin, it's about the laws and following them

Sure thing. Now if only you cared as much about the law when it came to corporations, eh?

Here is how it works folks. Illegal Aliens are an intregal part of the corporate strategy, cheap labour and they don't have to go to India for it.

The government has purposely made laws which EXCLUDE the VAST majority of poor peoplefrom immigrating legally. Please, look at the link below, to see how one can enter into the country legally. If you're well monied or a celebrity, the country welcomes you with open arms. If you're poor and can pick tomatos, the corporations will use you happily.

If you're poor ( and lets face it folks, Mexicans, who are not white, are poor) and don't have the resources to go through the very long, expensive, complicated process ( I know because I spoent years and thousands of dollars going through it before I gave up and took voluntary deportation) then you rprobably will never be a LEGAL immigrant, and thus if you believe the lie the America is the end all and be all of opportunity, you will come here illegally.

And that is exactly the point. Poor people will happily work on your factory farm for a pittiance because they have no choice. Since America is bought and paid for by corporations that will never change.

So in the end it IS about the colour of their skin by virtue of the fact that brown people from Mexico and South America cannot generally afford to legally immigrate.

White people from "fill in the blank western country" can generally afford the VERY costly, time consuming process of legal immigration.

The laws you have are meant to import poor people for the use by corporations ( the illegals) for cheap.

If that isn't an injustice, I don't know what is...

Send me your poor....NOT!