EU: Retirement Age Must Be Raised

From my personal blog Fascist Soup:

The thieves and liars have come up with a new lie to placate you as they suck down $100.00 bottles of wine with your stolen tax dollars.

The criminals are claiming that people who are living longer are causing a drain on the system.

LIARS!

What’s causing a drain on the system is a bunch of criminal looters sucking the cream off the top of the public retirement trusts.

What’s causing a drain on the system is a bunch of criminal looters destroying the economy by manipulating interest rates for their own personal gain, causing a massive misallocation of resources.

What’s causing a drain on the system is a bunch of criminal looters spending your money on running every aspect of your life, waging unending war, and enslaving your children to debt.

That’s what’s causing a drain.

Mildly longer life spans have absolutely nothing to do with it.

Anyone that isn’t a total idiot knows the longer money stays in a trust, the more interest it will accrue.

RTE reports:

European governments must consider raising the retirement age in their countries to ease pressure on public finances and prevent the explosion of their pension systems, the European Commission has said.

Weak growth, ballooning national debts and higher unemployment ‘have made it harder’ for all systems to make good on pension promises, the Commission says in a document to be presented Wednesday.

‘Ensuring that the time spent in retirement does not continue to increase compared to time spent working would support adequacy and sustainability,’ says the ‘green paper’ on pension systems.

‘This means increasing the age at which one stops working and draws a pension,’ it says.

‘Prolonging working lives to reflect continuous gains in life expectancy over time would bring a double dividend: higher living standards and more sustainable pensions,’ the Commission says.

What they really want is for you to die early.

Since the looters get to keep everything you have labored to produce if you are single when you die, they want you dead. They want you to work until you are 65, then for you to drop dead. They want your money. They want you as slaves. They don’t want to give you a dime of what you have worked for all your life.

When will you people learn?

What will it take for you to finally figure out that the government is not your friend?

What will it take for you to believe in yourself enough to manage your own retirement funds?

Why are you so afraid of responsibility?

Why?

Why do you demand to be robbed every day of your life?

You could also blame the immigrants to drain the system.

in other words, aliens.

This is something that was talked about a year ago in Spain so they could fix their economic troubles. I guess it's now been introduced as an option for the whole EU. I firmly believe we are in an endless cycle of corruption where the little fish get eaten by the big fish, as long as there is King and Queens and Royals, the regular population will have to pay for all their luxuries, and be treated like cattle as a return.

I mean seriuosly every time times are going great the governments decide to squeeze the # out of the people until there is a revolution, and if this keeps up, there will be another revolution because this governments are just not gonna stop until they reduce everybodies pay to pennies on the dollar just like a third world country. This is where you either eat or die, and that's when the revoultion begins.

When the age limit for retirement was introduced 65 was an age to which people werent living back then, and now that life span went up they want to raise the age limit. They want to keep the system the way it has always been.

First are the KINGS AND QUEENS which all the money they make is given to them by the taxes of the people all people, including Aristocrats.

Second is the ARISTOCRACY, which are presidents, senators, CEO"s etc, movie stars, elite athletes, bankers which I am sure you know how they make their money, they never do any type of hard labour for their pay which is 500 to 1 compared to the regular Peasant...

Third is the PEASANTS, which work for something that will give them food for a week, savings for a month and usually own some type of land. Jobs vary from white to blue collar.

Fourth is the SLAVE which all he earns for his labour is the food of the current day, not tomorrows food, but the food of the day, and never owns any land, and has no savings, jobs are blue collar. He might earn sufficient for the necessary tools to do his duties like a car for transportation, big screen tv for leisure, etc... HE IS FREE ALLRIGHT there is no chains bounding him/her, however the system currently in place has him with only two options either play ball (play the slave), or starve, and he will always choose the latter.

It wont be long until people are working 80 hour work weeks until theyre 80 years old or drop over dead from all the stress and poor living conditions. This is the way the elite, who probably never had to work a day in their #ing life, want it to be. You are SLAVES ala United SLAVES of America.

There used to be a time when the man of the house could work and support a family of 4 on 1 income. Less than 40 hours a week at that. Today both parents must work, most of the time more than 40 hours a week, and still cant make ends meat. Whats worse is these people have no hope of EVER retiring.

College education or not it doesnt matter. Unless you went to college for 12 years or become extremely lucky and hit the power ball guess what? You fall into OUR category.

Keep letting them string that piece of meaty steak infront of you as you run the never ending treadmill that is life. One day you can be just like them... when you're both dead. The only difference is, ironically, they'll have cleaner hands.

Originally posted by AndrewJay
It wont be long until people are working 80 hour work weeks until theyre 80 years old or drop over dead from all the stress and poor living conditions. This is the way the elite, who probably never had to work a day in their #ing life, want it to be. You are SLAVES ala United SLAVES of America.

There used to be a time when the man of the house could work and support a family of 4 on 1 income. Less than 40 hours a week at that. Today both parents must work, most of the time more than 40 hours a week, and still cant make ends meat. Whats worse is these people have no hope of EVER retiring.

College education or not it doesnt matter. Unless you went to college for 12 years or become extremely lucky and hit the power ball guess what? You fall into OUR category.

Keep letting them string that piece of meaty steak infront of you as you run the never ending treadmill that is life. One day you can be just like them... when you're both dead. The only difference is, ironically, they'll have cleaner hands.

I was in college for 7 years, I have two BAs and one MA. My wife was in college for 5 years and has a BA and and a BB. We both work full-time because we want to, but we could easily get along just fine on one of our two incomes. We have decided not to have children but again if we ever change our minds we won't have financial difficulty raising them. We got to this place in our lives through good decisions, long-term goals and careful planning.

I work as a research journalist, and she is a marketing officer at a fashion house, we live in London, in a nice apartment, and have a nice car, which is quite expensive in London. In our free time I have a model railroad I am building, and she is active in community theater, we go out with our friends quite a bit and do the other things that upper-20-somethings do. We're probably the most normal people you'd meet.

Such things are still very possible for people who work hard, plan well and want it. There are people that such things do not work out for, those that have a very hard time as you said above. It is for these reasons that you lay out that I am a Socialist.

There are those that want to keep the poor down, and bring down the middle class, I agree with you, but I disagree on how to fix that. I will say right now, for the record that I do not mind paying a higher tax rate to help those who need it, or so that those who cannot afford it do not have to pay high taxes.

On top of this, as someone whom is only a few years into my professional life, I would not mind working until 70. I love my job, and honestly I'd probably have quite a respectable body of work behind me if I did, and that is something I would be very proud of.

I truly do not see this as the end of the world that you do. I actively chose to use the system, as it is, to make myself a life that I like. I could have done many other things with my life too, that is freedom. It is not slavery that society should require you to be productive in life, and it is not exploitation to expect productive members of society to help those whom cannot be.

reply to post by mnemeth1


So you really don't think that people who now live almost 20 years longer than when these public pension systems were last properly reviewed are causing a drain on the system?

Me thinks you should use logic in what you are saying.. They are dead right.

The EU's population is finally decreasing properly, people are living a lot longer and healthier.. Why should the taxpayers have to burden themselves with paying for an extra few years that a huge amount of people want to work anyway?

Its common sense.. Social Welfare systems are based on tax income.. If the income is not there to support it, then what?

Borrow it?

Isn't that what got us into this mess in the first place?

reply to post by Dermo


Since 1960, life spans have increased less than 10 years.

I think its somewhere around 8 or so.

When the calculations are done, life spans could expand 100 years and it wouldn't matter if they didn't touch the surplus of the funds.

If I invested 10,000 a year for 40 years at 5% growth I would have 1,338,797.52 dollars.

I could then live off the interest alone and never touch the principle again at 67,000 a year.

More than enough to retire on forever if our criminal government wasn't blowing up the economy and devaluing the currency.

Further, when I finally did die, my kids would get all of that money instead of the State.

The State is a criminal organization of looting thugs that have raped you.

reply to post by mnemeth1


Not the life spans across the EU.. It is substantially more.

I understand what you are saying and assume by your argument that you are American. Things are different here.. And rest assured that in most cases, the retirement age rise will be for people who are receiving state pensions..

Which across the EU is a colossal amount tbh.

reply to post by Dermo


Show me.

I've looked at the data.

You are wrong.

reply to post by mnemeth1


Well whoop di do.

If that is your argument, give yourself a pat on the back. you show me.

When these systems were introduced in the 50's, exp was dire. By the time they are integrated - 2020 - there will have been a vast increase. By the time it affects the majority by a substantial amount through incremental increases, that will be approx 2040.. Nearly a hundred years after this system was introduced...

And what you are forgetting completely is that much of the more Socialist EU countries have been LOWERING THEIR RETIREMENT AGE over the past decade.. So what is the problem with bringing it back up.. Its not like they are going to drop a ten year increase (not even a two year increase in most cases) on people who are in their late fifties.

I mean come on.. Greeks who were working for the government (1/3 of the working population) could retire at 53.. Fifty Bloody Three Years Old!!!!!! You telling me that isn't a burden on the system.. If you don't think so, take a look at the Greek and Portuguese issues.

And big deal.. Whats a year increase? I know about 2 people who would be affected by this.. Whats all the furore about?

If one wants to control their own pension, then they should get up off their backside and sort it out. If they want a social pension, then they should deal with it the issues that arise when their government is almost broke.

So yea..

You are wrong..

Whoop!

Deal with it.

And why the hell is this in the "US political madness" section?

reply to post by Dermo


The government just want you to die before you retire so they don't have to give a single penny of what you already put into your social security for 50 years. That is very logical, and also very clever way of stealing money.

I signed up for retirement at 55 and gave my money to Social Security. Now the retirement age is going to be after my death. What a rip off. So, they are ripping off the EU elderly too.

reply to post by Dermo


Ok, I totally agree with raising the retirement of people who retire before 65. But don't agree to raise the retirement age from 65 to something older.

So my point is that if people in Europe are retiring before 65 and still receive full pension than that definately needs to be raised.

Originally posted by bartholomeo
reply to post by Dermo

 

The government just want you to die before you retire so they don't have to give a single penny of what you already put into your social security for 50 years. That is very logical, and also very clever way of stealing money.

That's not how pension funds work, there isn't someone who gets to pocket the leftovers at the end. take a look at how the system works here:
Pensions In The United Kingdom

Other European Union countries with government pensions have systems similar to this give or take.

The main problem I have with this thread is the blatant paranoia that Americans have of Socialist ideas. Believe it or not, the government is not always out to get you, sometimes you can rely upon it to help. I know that there is a sentiment in the United States that reliance upon the government is weakness, but this is not a universally shared idea. There is a subtlety and nuance in attitudes on government that Europeans have that I do not think is always apparent to the rest of the world. Understanding another culture's attitudes on governance and their relation to them should always be step number one in comprehension of their systems.

Originally posted by ProjectJimmy
Believe it or not, the government is not always out to get you, sometimes you can rely upon it to help. I know that there is a sentiment in the United States that reliance upon the government is weakness, but this is not a universally shared idea.

It can be hard at times to get this across to American folk.. the idea is the polar opposite to general US thinking.

I fear your explanation may be lost.

Let's look at the scientific angle on the issue of raising retirement age.

There is no doubt that with science and better knowledge on nutrition from young to old age, humanity had been able to live longer than adults of the 50s.

However, one aspect of science that had not advance is the cellular decay of a person once passed his 40s. Eyes, hair, teeth, health problems start to arise which current medicine had not been able to eradicate.

Thus for someone who is 'forced' to work beyond his 50s or 60s, it would be torture unless medical science can fully eradicate the health issues cheaply as well as EMPLOYERS' mentality about hiring older workers, fearing to pay more for the health costs or additional benefits should anything happens during his tenure of work.

Any other reason to raise the retirement age holds more suspicions than any rational logic can apply with current understanding on the state of science and social norms.

With rising life longevity and, most importantly, diminishing revenue/number of pensioners ratio due to demographic and economic reasons, some correction will have to be done to European public pensions. State pension system is not set in stone, and has to change according to the economy. Either lower the pensions, raise the retirement age, or (god forbid) increase pension tax.

Another big problem is that the inflation caused by our faulty economic system will steal much of the money in private pension funds, it is a long-term investment. IMHO it is better to save your money in gold, than to invest it in current economy. That is a nice indication of how frakked-up things are..

reply to post by ProjectJimmy


If its so great, why does it require violence to enforce?

If it was so great, I'd want to participate in Socialist Security out of my own free will.

Of course, the same could be said about all socialist crap.

Socialism is nothing more than the majority of people ganging up on the minority using violence and threats of violence to impose their will on others.

Socialism is nothing but a violent looting state of chaos and oppression.

To those who see no problem with raising the retirement age: how old are you and what do you do for a living?

It probably doesn't seem too much of an issue if your work involves sitting at a desk in a nice office, tapping away at a keyboard and talking on the phone. How about a little compassion for those of us who are getting on in years and feeling the weight of a lifetime's hard physical labour? Builders, coal miners, ditch diggers, labourers, porters and others who work 'by the sweat of their brow'.

Well I'm 58 and I'm already clapped out. I work hard, I sweat, I gasp for breath and resort to my inhaler, I come home aching and exhausted. Having paid my taxes and also into a (small) separate pension fund, now I'm told I can't even retire in 7 years time, but I must carry on longer. How long? I don't know as the goalposts keep moving.

Remember the old cart horse Boxer in Animal Farm? His motto was "I will work harder". Well, he was promised a retirement grazing on sweet grass in the shade of leafy trees, but when he finally collapsed in the shafts he was carted off to the knacker's yard, sold off to be boiled down for glue.

en.wikipedia.org...

You can bet the people making these decisions have never worked a 10 hour shift on the wrong end of a conveyor belt or wielding a pick and shovel. No, they spend their days in meetings, having 'working lunches' (on expenses of course) and propping up the House Of Commons bar (subsidised by the taxpayer).

And quite apart from my self-pitying plea for mercy - there's a generation of young people in the UK who've never had a proper full time job since leaving school, yet the Government won't let the old move aside to free up the few jobs there are for the young.

reply to post by Crazy Man Michael


They will work you until you are dead.

They have spent the money they promised to save for your retirement.

Its gone.

Its theft.

You have every right to be mad as hell.

Trusting government with your money has NEVER - EVER in the history of the world - turned out well for the common man.




[edit on 9-7-2010 by mnemeth1]