Julian Assange : Wrong Political Gamble, Know When To Hold'em, Know When To Fold'em..., page 7

reply to post by queenannie38

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Thank you, queenannie38.

If you disagreed with me, I would thank you just the same, as I thank everyone.

This is a civil means of discourse through a physical manifestion of words on a screen.

Nothing more.

Nothing less.

Originally posted by Amagnon
You are trying to make the case that there is another way - one of the best ways to fight is to get incriminating information and get it onto the net. If you have to break a few of their fake laws to do so, and they 'set the dogs on you' that is called fighting injustice, and it may cost you.

[edit on 3-7-2010 by Amagnon]

And ultimately that does absolutely nothing.

One man sits in jail because of it.

Another is on the run from Pentagon official hunting him.

And they will most likely try to detain him in Guantanamo.

Seeing as he is a foreigner with classified documents.

Fake laws?

Again, all laws are fake, or are they all corrupt?

I forget which you really think is which because you're not making sense.

Originally posted by unityemissions
Wow, you're against hackers as well

Always have been.

Originally posted by unityemissions
How bizarre. Do you realize a lot of professional hackers are conspiracy theorists at heart ??

Some but not all and thankfully not any percentage that will matter.

I do not support Government nor hackers/crackers having the ability to enter anyone's computers, no one should have that power, except tech support.

Government, unfortunately, is just as nosey and ignorant as hacker/crackers.

Originally posted by unityemissions
Don't you realize that they're taking it a step further and putting their ass on the line to uncover truth and disrupt the beast

Really?

So, in the end, they are stopping "the beast" how exactly?

I do not see Government slowing down an iota towards bringing on the cashless society.

The World Bank is moving forward faster with that every day American's economy is in the toilet, making the cashless society grow faster.

Originally posted by unityemissions
Screw what's considered illegal. If it's wrong, it's wrong, period. You are in the path of righteousness by uncovering truth. I can't believe you've bought into this programming, Spartan. I held you with a little more respect before this.

And I cannot believe you think I am programmed.

I am a free-thinking individual who knows right from wrong.

Sometimes, Government is wrong, via the people running it, sometimes citizens are wrong, reflected via their actions, nothing has changed.

I have always thought that.

Always.

If your respect level has changed than you misread me, period.

Originally posted by unityemissions
You can't beat a system from within their rules of law that has been entirely infiltrated by psychopaths, and been reconstructed to act as a psychopathic entity in itself. It holds everyone else responsible, yet denies responsibility itself.

There is no "beating the system" there is either being controlled by it.

Or controlling it.

Possibly being a victim of it through ignorance.

I am neither controlled by it nor am I controlling it.

I am merely a citizen within that system who knows more about it than most.

Originally posted by unityemissions
It is our responsibility, right, and duty as citizens of this earth to uphold the truth at all costs. This supersedes any petty national or international law system which does not serve the people. The law of the common man trumps all.

I am an Earthling first, yes, an American second, but when another countries citizen supercedes something my country is involved within, I am American.

Do not mistake my ability to understand international issues for being a traitor.

It is our right within our defined parameters of countries to be citizens.

If what you were saying, about "petty national/international" laws were true, more American's would not give a damn about the Border of Mexico and America.

Yet, the North American Union, is almost complete.

Quote from : Wikipedia : North American Union

The North American Union (NAU) is a theoretical economic union, in some instances also a political union, of Canada, Mexico, and the United States.

It is loosely based on the European Union, occasionally including a common currency called the Amero or the North American Dollar.

While the idea for some form of union has been discussed or proposed in academic, business and political circles for many decades, government officials from all three nations say there are no plans to create such a union and no agreement to do so has been signed.

The formation of a North American Union has been the subject of various conspiracy theories.

And yet not one damn American citizen knows a damn thing about it.

Originally posted by unityemissions
If we are to win this battle against the oppressive forces of government, corporations, and banking institutions, we must wage war outside their systems of control. We must envision what must be done and execute with a swiftness and without mercy.

No, what we must do, and what we will do are two different things.

Too many times do I see intelligent people here on ATS doing nothing.

The same goes for other websites I frequent.

All they want to talk about is violence, ignorance, and typical stupidity.

If the Government, more the people within it, more particularly, are making laws, then what exactly are you doing here on ATS, other than talking?

Nothing.

Except talking.

There is no action that I see at all on your part.

At least not that you might have shared with me.

Written your Congress person?

How about visited your Governor?

What about City Hall?

Since I do not know you all that well I cannot answer those questions.

Only you can.

Originally posted by unityemissions
We are not being hypocrites, for they are not within our family of trust. They are people, but not human beings, as they operate without conscience. Behead those without conscience and restore peace to humanity. That will never be done by complying with all the rules.

[edit on 4-7-2010 by unityemissions]

To comply with rules, or break them, you have to first commit to actual action.

Because talking on a website does absolutely nothing if that website does nothing.

And not to insult SkepticOverlord, but he actually went to Washington D.C.

Have you been there?

I have.

Have you shaken hands with a Congressman on Obama's side of the aisle?

I have.

Have you written a letter to a Governor of a state not your own?

I have.

How about having a County Manager come to a meeting of people you're aligned wth?

I have.

Have you shaken hands with a City Hall employee after discussing local politics?

I have.

I am seeing more and more jabberjawing and little to no actual action.

Not the right kind of action, the political kind, and it infuriates me.

reply to post by nine-eyed-eel

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Point taken.

The moment they try to come and usher me into a Concentration Camp, is the moment I will step into their "perceived" criminality, and I will declare open war on America, but not one moment before that ever.

That is the exact last of my patience and resolve with Government.

And I will be using their bullhorns to do so after a massive enemy slaughter.

But it will be on the Government, Military, and Law Enforcement.

Those who try to uphold that particular law.

I do not see that happening that particular route though.

They will make the United Nations troops operate on American soil first.

You know the colors of the alleged peacekeepers right?



Most people have missed completely that the United Nations is at the Mexican/American border.

Quote from : Wikipedia : World Health Organization

The World Health Organization (WHO) is a specialized agency of the United Nations (UN) that acts as a coordinating authority on international public health.

Established on 7 April 1948, and headquartered in Geneva, Switzerland, the agency inherited the mandate and resources of its predecessor, the Health Organization, which had been an agency of the League of Nations.

They are still down there due to Swine Flu and will be called on for Deepwater Horizon.

You know Rex-84?

Quote from : Wikipedia : Readiness Exercise 84

Rex 84, short for Readiness Exercise 1984, is a plan by the United States federal government to test their ability to detain large numbers of American citizens in case of civil unrest or national emergency.

That plan however is doubtful if it ever happens.

reply to post by ThePowerOfOne

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No, I think you're as mistaken as other people, in what is and is not right.

Human nature is to fight or take flight and that is the truth.

And fighting takes on all levels as criminality and patriotism.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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You are correct on many levels whether you and I see eye to eye on Julian Assange.

reply to post by Mike Stivic

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Your point was well taken into consideration albeit I do not agree.

In regards to Grandmaster's there are only those participating.

And those observing.

The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy And Its Geostrategic Imperatives

Kirkus Reviews : Amazon Review :

The former national security advisor is still a believer in geopolitics after all these years.

Like most foreign-policy aficionados weaned on the Cold War, Brzezinski (Out of Control, 1993) has been forced by the disintegration of the Soviet Union to broaden his perspective--but not very far.

He sees the US as the only global superpower, but inability to maintain its hegemony indefinitely means that ``geostrategic skill'' is essential.

To what end is not specified beyond the vague shaping of ``a truly cooperative global community'' that is in ``the fundamental interests of humankind,'' but in this genre, goals are commonly assumed rather than examined.

In any case, Brzezinski casts Eurasia as the playing field upon which the world's fate is determined and analyzes the possibilities in Europe, the former Soviet Union, the Balkans (interpreted broadly), and the Far East. Like a grandmaster in chess, he plots his strategy several moves in advance, envisioning a three-stage development.

Geopolitical pluralism must first be promoted to defuse challenges to America, then compatible international partners must be developed to encourage cooperation under American leadership, and finally the actual sharing of international political responsibility can be considered.

The twin poles of this strategy are a united Europe in the West and China in the East; the central regions are more problematic and, for Brzezinski, not as critical in constructing a stable balance of power.

This updated version of East-West geopolitics is worth taking seriously but it is also an amazing example of how a perspective can be revised without actually being rethought.

Since you like chess and the "game" you might like the above book.

Whether my questioning Julian Assange's intelligence was right or not, it is ultimately, between him and myself to decide, if we should ever meet face to face.

Hopefully is is not within a Concentration Camp or Guantanamo.

And hopefully it is neither as cell mates sharing a prison cell nor as captive and interrogator.

But I respect your right to think that and share that ultimately.

[edit on 5-7-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by queenannie38

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There is no "beating the system" there is either being controlled by it.

Or controlling it.

Possibly being a victim of it through ignorance.

I am neither controlled by it nor am I controlling it.

I am merely a citizen within that system who knows more about it than most.

Is this not a contradiction? You have stated that within the system you are either being controlled by it, or are the one in control of it. Then you state that neither applies to you, yet you are a citizen? I fail to see how you, alone, are in this special circumstance. Please excuse me if I've misread this.

No, what we must do, and what we will do are two different things.

Too many times do I see intelligent people here on ATS doing nothing.

The same goes for other websites I frequent.

All they want to talk about is violence, ignorance, and typical stupidity.

If the Government, more the people within it, more particularly, are making laws, then what exactly are you doing here on ATS, other than talking?

I find it strange that you may think that discussing these issues is not the first step in getting action done. These changes will not happen from not speaking of them, will they?

Nothing.

Except talking.

There is no action that I see at all on your part.

At least not that you might have shared with me.

Written your Congress person?

How about visited your Governor?

What about City Hall?

Since I do not know you all that well I cannot answer those questions.

Only you can.

I'm not so naive to think that writing congress would do much of any good. Did congress listen to the people when the majority voiced in against the bailouts?

As for writing my Governor or City Hall, no I have done neither. Point well taken.

To comply with rules, or break them, you have to first commit to actual action.

There are some who would choose to know of words, thoughts, and ideas as things in action rather than inert vibrations of nothingness.

Because talking on a website does absolutely nothing if that website does nothing.

Before any physical action can be taken with enough strength to at least put a dent into the system, enough like-minded individuals must have an outlet to voice their opinions and ideas to bounce off each other and gain momentum. Every action as you choose to see it, starts with a single thought.

And not to insult SkepticOverlord, but he actually went to Washington D.C.

Have you been there?

I have.

Have you shaken hands with a Congressman on Obama's side of the aisle?

I have.

Have you written a letter to a Governor of a state not your own?

I have.

How about having a County Manager come to a meeting of people you're aligned wth?

I have.

Have you shaken hands with a City Hall employee after discussing local politics?

I have.

I am seeing more and more jabberjawing and little to no actual action.

Not the right kind of action, the political kind, and it infuriates me.

I kindly ask if any of your above actions actually caused any differences in policy. Not to say that all of these actions were in vein, but some of them may have been.

I do agree that in an open society, it would be ideal for each citizen to be informed and politically active at the local, state, and federal level. The difference of opinion we seem to encounter is from our differing perspective. In my view, it is insane for us to attempt and retake the government from within. I am of the opinion that those who have tried before us have been persuaded to drop out of the role of influence, or were forcefully removed. From this perspective, I see no other choice at this stage in the "game" other than a revolution of mind from outside the conventional political system.

You may think that my deeds are without merit. I may think the same with some of yours. I think we can both respect the fact that we're both free-thinking individuals who choose to be informed of the issues, and stand for what we think is right, while, of course, honoring the truth.

Thanks for your detailed and well thought out reply, SKL.





[edit on 5-7-2010 by unityemissions]

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
It, has gotten to the point with me, that I am suspect of ANY and ALL released information.

I always have been since I was six years old.

Which is why I consider any Breaking Alternative News thread which uses a "blog" or another "conspiracy theory" website as a source, as questionable, and not a viable source of information.

I would rather decipher the propaganda C.N.N., C-Span, or Fox News uses.

At least I know they're lying and the lies they tell and how to differentiate them.

"Blogs" or other non-ATS websites have their own independent agenda.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
Whether it be touted as first hand, eyes only, breaking news, suppressed, public service, etc etc.

Agreed.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
There is a mastery of control being used on the entire accessible electronic media sources, at a level of interaction that is so hard to fathom it's not even believed.

You are correct.

For anyone who knows warfare knows propaganda is used.

Media, Mainstream, Alternative, or Military, uses it, take care less you're spreading misinformation.

Or even blow back for that matter.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Blow Back (Intelligence)

Blowback is the espionage term for the violent, unintended consequences of a covert operation that are suffered by the civil population of the aggressor government.

To the civilians suffering it, the blowback typically manifests itself as “random” acts of political violence without a discernible, direct cause; because the public—in whose name the intelligence agency acted—are ignorant of the effected secret attacks that provoked revenge (counter-attack) against them.

Specifically, blowback denotes the resultant, violent consequences—reported as news fact, by domestic and international mass communications media, when the actor intelligence agency hides its responsibility via media manipulation.

Generally, blowback loosely denotes every consequence of every aspect of a secret attack operation, thus, it is synonymous with consequence—the attacked victims’ revenge against the civil populace of the aggressor country, because the responsible politico-military leaders are invulnerable.

In my estimation there is a lot more of that than intentional misinformation.

How does anyone know for sure what Julian Assange has is even viable?

Meaning, it could have been a carefully laid trap, and he fell into it.

The Military does do Covert Operations to flush out traitors all the time.

And Manning could have very well have been a suspected traitor already, and Assange was the bait for him, and Manning was bait for Assange, no one truly knows.

Remember, the telecommunications industry is in bed with Government, the Military has always been there, it is run by Government, after all, and in a war zone like Iraq, Afghanistan, or elsewhere who does what is monitored highly.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
I have a hard time advocating a system that consumes without contribution.
Information saturation is diagnostic quicksand, and that, is what we seem to be trying to run a 4 minute mile in.

Which is why information is sorted, sifted, and vetted, to maintain credibility.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
Hungry, for food will trump hungry for truth everytime.

Too true.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
It's a tuff call Spart, I cant see continuing to slide into conformity and tolerance, and allowing alot, basically All of this unanswered nasty stuff to be blindly protected by substance of law by the same people doing the nasty and seeking to keep it quiet who enact te laws.

I could not concur with you more but it is how we do it which is important.

Honorable or dishonorable?

I intend to retain honor without becoming a Lee Harvey Oswald, Timothy McVeigh, or Bradley Manning.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
Yet again I cant see a benefit to just abandoning principle.

That is all this thread has been about, not abandoning principles.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
IF it's needed, and done to correct a condition that restores rights and protects individuals how can you Not take action?

But the type of action is that which is in question here.

Assange's action, while his intent might have merit, the motive is in question, because his actions relying upon an alleged whistleblower, are similar to a spy.

Thieves, spies, and dishonorable people steal classified documents, conspiracy theorists do not.

There is nothing wrong with taking de-classified documents and exposing the lies within.

Redacted materials and or misinformation and disinformation is to be expected.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
The MIDDLE is probably a good place to be when you dispense justice,
but we may have to fight our way back to that ideal, that mindset, and may have to break some of their 'laws' along that way back.

Well, from where I sit, in the middle it is one thing to use intelligence, investigation, and intuition, it is a totally different thing to breach Intelligence Agencies, Military, or Government, because one is showing brains.

The other is not.

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