Sick of these morons

I'm so sick of these protesters and other loud mouths I had to find a place to vent. So here I am.

I live in NJ and I used to work in NYC until the building I worked in got hit by a plane. I was lucky enough to get out unharmed, but like a lot of other people that day I stood and watched.

I watched many people jump/fall from the upper floors of the towers and explode on the ground not far from where I was standing. Some of the people were dead or unconcious on the way down, but there was a guy that was screaming all the way to the ground. If I think about it, I can picture the whole scene like it was yesterday. I'm sure I'll be stuck with those horrible memories until the day I die.

So now I get to turn on the TV and watch morons talk about how we are violating Muslim rights by profiling. How Bush is turning the USA into a police state. How the terrorist violence against us can be justified by the way we treat the rest of the world.

I just think of that one guy kicking and screaming all the way down. I think his rights were violated that day, for all I know he could have been a Muslim.

It's hard for some people to justify war,.... Nobody in their right minds wants to see war happen. But in Dealing with saddam its like we have to twist his arm to get him to deal with the UN on anything. Had we not moved troops into that region he probably wouldn't allow the inspectors to do their job in the first place. The threat of war makes him realize that we are not joking and he better disarm Fully. France Doesn't want the us to go into baghdad because they are afraid what Allied forces will find....Anywhere from illegal selling of aircraft parts, to the lucrative oil field deal they have only if Saddam is allowed to stay in power.

The Russians may very well be in the same boat as France if they have traded weaponry for other things as well. But after this is all said and Done and France and Russia are vilified for their crimes according to un resolutions.

If this is about UN resolutions, Israel should have been taken down long ago. But it isn't.

Profiling isn't nice. You wouldn't want it to happen to you, and to do it on the grounds of religion is nothing short of bigotry. It'd be like saying that all Christians are evil because of what Charlie Manson did. France and Russia don't want to go into Iraq because they know that hundreds of innocents will die- and they're right. None of the terrorists of 9/11 were USA nationals, they were in fact from Saudi Arabia. But do I see any attacks on Saudi? Nope, because they're the USA's allies and have an almost complete monopoly on oil. A monopoly that would vanish with the invasion of Iraq...

Deimos

Your right, profiling might not be nice, but it is necessary in the fight against terrorism. We know it is Muslims that are committing the terror acts, not Christians, not Buddhist, not Druids. If we were profiling on 9/11, 3000 people would be alive today and I wouldn't have had to see people exploding on the ground.

If I lived in a predominantly Muslim country and there were white Catholic guys running around blowing up people, I would expect to be profiled. I would want to be profiled to prove I have nothing to hide.

My post had nothing to do with Iraq, so I don't know why you took it in that direction. I will say this though, the reason we were so unprepared to stop 9/11 was because of thinking like yours.

Clinton's administration knew we had charities filtering money to terrorist groups in this country but didn't want to look as though he was singling out Muslims. He knew where the terrorists were in Afghanistan and did nothing. Bush heard the chatter before 9/11 and did nothing.

Its time to stop doing nothing. Doing nothing in Iraq just might lead to the next 9/11 where I have to watch people vomit blood in the street and die by the thousands. I'm not willing to take that chance after witnessing what I did first hand on 9/11.

You know that it is Muslims committing the terror acts at the moment. What happens if, like you say, a white Catholic conducts a terror attack on the USA. Will the government then begin to profile all Catholics. Will they start to build up profiles on key government figures who are white and Catholic? And then what happens if, for example, a black person commits a terror act? It is easy to move into a system of profiling everyone in the country, and that is only one step away from totalitarianism. If the USA really wanted to avoid singling out Muslims, then why only profile that one specific group in the first place?

And dammit, those 'morons' are right when they say that the USA treats the rest of the world like its playground. It does. The only people who are condemned are those who are not allies to the USA- see Saudi Arabia as an example, almost all of the terrorists of 9/11 were from there but no action is being taken. Nothing can justify the terrorist violence of 9/11, but perhaps if the USA dropped the arrogance and started being a little more restrained and not so gung-ho all the time, things would improve. How many innocents vomited up blood in Afghanistan when it was being carpet-bombed? How many will in Iraq when it is invaded?

Most of these terrorists hate the USA because there is no remorse for these acts.

And I mentioned Iraq in response to Twiztid's post by the way.

Deimos

You can bash the US all you like, but the fact of the matter is the US gives more aid and support then any other country in the world. If I'm not mistaken I think we helped to bail you guys out in WWII.

That being said, the US is the main focus of these terrorists. How would you handle it? You don't think that profiling is a viable option? Maybe we should just say we are sorry and they will leave us alone. I got news for you buddy, there is nothing we can do to fight these scumbags other than to fight as dirty as they do.

I have witnessed first hand the horror of that day. You have no idea what it was like to watch people fall or to see people with flesh hanging off of them from burning jet fuel. You are not qualified to speak on this matter because you have never witnessed it for yourself, I have.

I can tell you that profiling hurts a lot less than falling 90 stories and turning into a bag of bones on the street. You just might see things a different way if you were there that day.

Its easy to talk sh!t on the other side of the pond.

jms - How can George Bush have any right to do what he's doing considering that he wasn't at the WTC as bodies were falling etc. etc. ?

It's a mistake to disregard others opinions just becase they weren't in NY on 9/11, or they've never been in the military, or they're under 30, or they're from a different country. Everyone has a viable opinion here, and the real trick is learning to respect different peoples opinions!

Pres. Bush has the right to do what he's doing because he is the Commander and Chief of the US. He realizes the magnitude of the problem that we are facing here in the US and he is doing what he can to protect us.

I've never been in the military and I am under 30, so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. I respect peoples opinions, however its frustrating to watch people try and justify what was done on 9/11 because of US policy.

... that just because someone didn't have some personal connection with 9/11 *doesn't* mean that their opinion is worthless.

And that was in response to this quote from jms...

"You are not qualified to speak on this matter because you have never witnessed it for yourself, I have. "

You are right.

Your intitled to your own opinion, but if you where there on 9/11 I'm sure you would have a different opinion.

I feel I'm more qualified to talk about terrorism because I witnessed the most horrible terrorist attack in history. It kind of gives you a different perspective on things.

I mean, do you live in the tri-state area? Have you ever witnessed an act of terror first hand?

Hey jms, I'm from Jersey, and although I watched that horrible event unfold on TV, I worked at ground zero for over six months and saw and smelled the result. I think I can sort of relate to you, although seeing bodies fall out of the sky must have been terrible. That was the most horrific smell I ever came in contact with. I am totally behind Bush taking whatever means necessary to eliminate terrorists and prevent something else horrible happening. People say Saddam hasn't done anything yet but why wait for him to before we do something, stop it now before it happens again.

I'm from London, England, although one of my banker friends was working just down the road from the towers when they were hit, so I've heard first hand stories of what happened.

That said, I think there's a real risk that being too close to something like this can make people lose perspective. I don't mean that in a negative way, I just think it's very easy to get carried away with the hatred and to stop thinking about what's really going on.

Personally I hope that the US will move back from the brink of starting a frightening new period in international politics, but I don't hold out much hope for that anymore.

I just wanted to look at this response by jms88 as it has a lot of elements continually used by Pro-War Americans who post on this site.

Originally posted by jms88
You can bash the US all you like, but the fact of the matter is the US gives more aid and support then any other country in the world. If I'm not mistaken I think we helped to bail you guys out in WWII.

First we see a hurt defensive response and signs of a siege mentality because someone has disagreed with him.This followed by a claim that JMS feels must be true but in fact is hard to justify(right now the USA owes billions of dollars in unpaid contributions to the UN not only that but presently all Aid seems to be reliant on any countries passive response to American Foreign Policy demands rather than need.This is followed by an implied insult.JMS surely knows that WW2 started in Sept 1939 and also that theUnited Kingdom pays its debts unlike the USA.

That being said, the US is the main focus of these terrorists. How would you handle it? You don't think that profiling is a viable option? Maybe we should just say we are sorry and they will leave us alone. I got news for you buddy, there is nothing we can do to fight these scumbags other than to fight as dirty as they do.

Despite what JMS has been told,Terrorism is not the randam and illogical acts of insane religious zealots.All Terrorist causes have a foundation.I wrote in a post here months ago that Terrorism is like bacteria it is impossible to fight bacteria one by one but what you can do is deny the bacteria the enviroment to breed.JMS then asks how we would deal with it as though the British could have no idea what a concerted terrorist campaign against our homeland could be like.Has JMS forgotten that we had to deal with it for over 25 years since the late 1960's?Ours wasn't funded by misguided Saudi Arabians but instead by misguided Americans.How did we deal with it?Did we fight as dirty as the terrorists?Yes we tried but we found it recruited more terrorists.We found better success when we dealt with the causes of terrorism.

I have witnessed first hand the horror of that day. You have no idea what it was like to watch people fall or to see people with flesh hanging off of them from burning jet fuel. You are not qualified to speak on this matter because you have never witnessed it for yourself, I have.

If you continue to be blinded by hate it will take decades and the innocent deaths of hundreds of thousands,including Americans before you can walk safely in the world again.

I can tell you that profiling hurts a lot less than falling 90 stories and turning into a bag of bones on the street. You just might see things a different way if you were there that day.

Its easy to talk sh!t on the other side of the pond.

Another insult to finish with.JMS and people who agree with him deserve the President they have.I just feel sorry for the Americans who see their Administration acting blinded with tears in their eyes.Foreign Policy mistakes today could be costly.And it is for the benefit of those Americans that do not think it is unpatriotic to hesitate before embarking on a potential folly that the British should refrain from wholesale Anti-Americanism.

The president we have has risen to the occasion and is doing what a good commander-in-chief should do when his nation is under attack, when a specific group has repeatedly declared war on his nation and has attacked it not once but several times.

We got the president we need, not a cowardly one who'll attempt to appease those who dispise us and would continue to attack us anyway.

Java - are you refering to Iraq by "a specific group has repeatedly declared war on his nation..." because if you are, you're talking out of your arse.

I have no problem with the war against terrorism, but I do have a problem with a war on Iraq which is being fought on a mandate which is untenable, using lies and coercion.

I hope the troops that will fight in Iraq don't see horiffic images that they will remember for the rest of their lives (my wee brother included). Also all you pro war guys how come your posting to this site and not cleaning your gun on a navy boat. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall Iraqi terrorists being blamed for flying planes into the twin towers.

adding to John bull's post,

The righteous indignation that you speak with in relation to 9/11 just shows how blinkered you where before it. The rest of the world has been subjected to this sh!t for decades while Americans stuck to there 'im all right jack' mentality. It took that to wake you up, and now you turn on the rest of the world and tell us we don't know what it's like? you may have been living under a metophorical rock before 9/11, but as in the second world war that is such a popular argument tool, it started long before you joined in.

"Also all you pro war guys how come your posting to this site and not cleaning your gun on a navy boat"

In my case, I am past the age to enter military service, and it was not my career choice in the first place. Just because you believe in a cause, does not make it worth uprooting and trudging off to war with the soldiers....

Likewise, I could ask, "If you anti-war guys feel so strongly, why aren't you acting as human shields in Iraq right now?" Hehe, the shoe doesn't fit so well on the other foot, huh? There's the fallacy in the arguement...

Well may you smile sitting at your keyboard 5000 miles away saying war is a good idea. I wouldn't ask anyone to somehing for me that I wasn't willing to do myself. I'm deaf in one ear before you ask. There shouldn't have to be any human shields in the first place. Are you happy with your relatives potentially dying. .

as I do have relatives and friends in the military that are currently over there.

THEY feel too, that it is a good cause, and if THEY are willing to put their lives on the line, then it must be a sincere belief.

Though I am 5000 miles away, I still assume the risk of greater risk of terrorist attack due to these actions. I'm not asking them to do something I wouldn't do...they VOLUNTEERED to do so.