So my Iraq/Afghan war veteran good friend just killed himself.....

Please let's talk about the topic and not each other. Thanks.

Peace

Originally posted by hypervigilant
reply to post by earthdude

 

If the people that join are predisposed to having PTSD and suffering from survivors guilt then how do you explain all of the mental health casualties amongst the 67% of the service men during WW2 that were drafted even though they saw far less combat on a daily basis as those in Vietnam and even a lesser amount than those that are now serving in the Middle East.....
How do you explain the fire fighters that survived the 9-11 that are emotionally disabled or the workers in the buildings that got out and their state of being since their one intense day of horror compared to the day in day out exposure that is suffered by a military combatant????

Good point. I did not know WW2 vets had that much "shell shock" in comparison to other wars. I suppose these things were kept secret and now everybody is more expressive of their disorders. It seems to me people get are affected by psychological trauma more than they used to be. The guys I know who went to our current wars seem to be unaffected by things that happened. Boredom seemed to be what irritated them the most about going to war. I'll check out the statistics too. It was said that WWII vets did not lead the sheltered lives that our young warriors did. They lived through the great depression.

[edit on 29-6-2010 by earthdude]

Originally posted by Dr Love
Please let's talk about the topic and not each other. Thanks.

Peace

my opologies to my fellow ATSers for my inappropriate post.

my opologies to Zomar as well for such a post.

it is just an emotional subject, for all of us in this thread.

and we as individuals based upon our current understandings tend to interpret information slightly different.

again, opologies to my fellow ATSers for deviation from the accepted protocols, the OP content, and having participated in such a post which resulted in a mod having to deny ignorance (in this case my own).

i'll try not to by a about it.

respectully,
ET

[edit on 29-6-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

Suicide? What is the difference between suicide this way or suicide that way? Especially when choices are dwindling?
Should I go to the dentist, or should I let my mouth hurt and let my teeth rot out of my face?

VA hospital may have infected 1,800 veterans with HIV

The following is possibly example of one familiar variable we veterans feel after returning home.
Here is a fine example of the support the Americans’ government provides their veterans with, provided to us ATSers (Oozii )here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
some of the OP:

Originally posted by Oozii
CNN) -- A Missouri VA hospital is under fire because it may have exposed more than 1,800 veterans to dangerous viruses like hepatitis and HIV.

John Cochran VA Medical Center in St. Louis has recently mailed letters to 1,812 veterans telling them they may have contracted hepatitis B, hepatitis C and human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) after visiting the medical center for dental work, said Rep. Russ Carnahan.

Carnahan said Tuesday he is calling for a investigation into the issue and has sent a letter to President Obama about it.

"This is absolutely unacceptable," said Carnahan, a Democrat from Missouri. "No veteran who has served and risked their life for this great nation should have to worry about their personal safety when receiving much needed healthcare services from a Veterans Administration hospital."

SOURCE/MORE:www.cnn.com...

american family & friends,
thank you for your support, but your support may be detrimental to my health.

thanks, but almost no thanks,
ET

Originally posted by The_Zomar
I've read. I know the subject at hand. Your argument is frivolous because you are comparing my opinions to a story made up by the government and MSM.

Reading about it and knowing people who've been deployed doesn't cut the mustard. Unless you've been there, you don't have Clue One about what goes on.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
Opinion Research Business (ORB) poll conducted August 12–19, 2007 estimated 1,033,000 violent deaths due to the Iraq war alone. That does not include any deaths in Afghanistan.

Hmmm...and US forces are responsible for all of these, and not the insurgents planting a car bomb in a crowded market?

Originally posted by The_Zomar
So apparently you're hiding them in the desert. The same place you left your decency.

Like Saddam hid his WMDs? I mean, if you believe we're hiding a million plus bodies in desert, then Saddam stashed his WMDs there. It's a big freakin' desert.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
I have never worked at "Micky D's". You're guessing I'm some uneducated youth undercooking fries. trolling on political boards in the downtime.

To be quite honest, yes, I do believe that.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
Theres too many posts to reply to calling me a troll or whatever. The fact is our wars are not helping either side. They are only making the rich richer, and by participating in them you are only bringing agony to yourself (such as the OP's friend), and others.

No agony on my part, I sleep like a baby every night.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
I do feel for the OP's friend. I am not emotionless. I simply tried to say that it is a result of war, and that our wars are senseless. It could have been prevented.

Our wars are senseless? All of them??? Interesting.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
I don't care what the military calls it. Ending someone's life is murder.

It's not. The military doesn't murder, we kill. There's a difference.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
I can see that military brainwashing is up to par. Good job guys.

I can see the anti-military brainwashing is up to par. Like that freedom of speech? Yeah, that's what I thought. You're welcome.

Originally posted by alaskan
Before he left, he was all gung-ho about going over there and 'fighting for our country' and killing some sandn-----s as he put it.

I lost interest in your friend when i realised he was a racist idiot. Sorry.

Maybe he realised that sand N*****s were real people

Unlucky. But genuinely nice people die all the time and don't get sympathy, so why should a racist loser get any?

That's fine, you can't always choose your friends.

He may be a scumbag in a lot of ways, but everyone's got someone in their life like that.

reply to post by mr-lizard

!!!!!!
that was an awful post, god.

a generalization and a prejudice statement made against the dead who can not defend such a cruel summary of a life that served and gave more than he could bare to give.

he may be dead and gone, but not entirely due to his own choices.
but rather the options left to him after maiking himself the extension of other peoples' wills throughout his life. (humanzees you share 99.7+% dna with, clone)

if you had kept any interest at all, and read some of the posts past the OP, you may not have made such a transparently callus and anti-recalcitrant statement.

choice words. you can spread as much of that on the toast as you want to.
however friend, in the end,ATSer, no one else may have to eat it, but you.
your opinion is a kin to mine, but not always consistant with what is true

sentiment is not always totally consistent with the truth, depending upon intentionalities.

-ET

[edit on 30-6-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

Originally posted by The_Zomar
I said the wars are not benefitting the average man. My statements are 100% true.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
Opinion Research Business (ORB) poll conducted August 12–19, 2007 estimated 1,033,000 violent deaths due to the Iraq war alone. That does not include any deaths in Afghanistan.

we have been there (iraq) for about 10 years (overtly) now.
so, what where they doing over there before the last 10 years that we (americans) have been there? What were they doing for the 10 years prior to us being there and involved? (overtly)

No one is sure of the total casualties during the Iran-Iraq war, but estimates range from 500,000 to 1 million dead, 1-2 million wounded, and more than 80,000 prisoners. There were approximately 2.5 million refugees, and whole cities were destroyed. The financial cost is estimated at a minimum of $200 billion. Source: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

reply to post by Esoteric Teacher


Sorry, but i don't think it is awful.

All these hot-headed Americans who go off to war to kill sand n*gg*rs as they put it - are the same one's who get genuine soldiers killed.

You might think i'm being awful, but i know enough squaddies who can tell you that diplomacy has been RUINED because of these immature losers.

For every arsehole that goes gung-ho, a GOOD , genuine soldier potentially loses their life.

Can you not see my point?

reply to post by Esoteric Teacher


And if you'd have bothered reading what i'd said, you'd have known i WASN'T replying to the OP...

I was replying to a different member.

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by alaskan
Before he left, he was all gung-ho about going over there and 'fighting for our country' and killing some sandn-----s as he put it.

I lost interest in your friend when i realised he was a racist idiot. Sorry.

Maybe he realised that sand N*****s were real people

Unlucky. But genuinely nice people die all the time and don't get sympathy, so why should a racist loser get any?

Touche Mr. Lizard

You are correct. There are terrible atrocities that happen everyday much worse than this that get no such pity. And we all know this "type" of guy if you have been around the block long enough. Yeah, I know stereotyping..

Can't say I feel much remorse as he ultimately chose his path but don't feel good about his passing either.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Sorry to those offended, but stories like that fill me with joy.

Call me a racist-hater, but I call it a happy ending to a miserable life.

80% of military folk I talk to are racist. I'm also from Indiana which does have a larger racist population, however.

reply to post by Esoteric Teacher


Okay, we will say 10 years then. Why are we still there.

Why are we killing innocent people?


I'll tell you, that if I was an iraqi, I would LOVE to be planting IED's everywhere. Because I'm a patriot.

I'll defend my country against any enemy, that includes the racist corrupt military. When the US military is commanded to carry out orders against the American people - Games on.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
Why are we killing innocent people?

Why are the insurgents? Ever take the time and ask yourself that question?

Originally posted by The_Zomar
I'll tell you, that if I was an iraqi, I would LOVE to be planting IED's everywhere. Because I'm a patriot.

For some reason, I can see you as one of the insurgents that manages to blow himself up by stumbling down the stairs.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
I'll defend my country against any enemy, that includes the racist corrupt military. When the US military is commanded to carry out orders against the American people - Games on.

Yeah, I'm shaking.

Yep, there are racists in the military, but there are racists in the civilian population, too. Any sort of racial remarks, acts, etc in the military will get you in some serious trouble; more than if you were a civilian doing the same thing.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by Esoteric Teacher

 

Sorry, but i don't think it is awful.

All these hot-headed Americans who go off to war to kill sand n*gg*rs as they put it - are the same one's who get genuine soldiers killed.

in my 11 years active duty in the united states air force, and more than 3 years in warzones, i cannot recall once any service member referring to anyone as "sand 'n-word's".

BTW, if you knew the etymological origins of the syllables of "ni" & "gur" you would find that in more than a dozen ancient languages from the b.c. eras the word "ni" meant "keeper of" or "guardian" and "gur" akin to "guru" meant "sacred knowledge" and also "secret(s) wisdoms".

ironic isn't it? a word that once meant "guardian & keeper of sacred knowledge & secret wisdom" is now a censored word, and a bad dirty thing.

You might think i'm being awful, but i know enough squaddies who can tell you that diplomacy has been RUINED because of these immature losers.

i'd almost believe you if i didn't have to rely on my own 5+ senses, 38+ years of experience being an american, and 11+ years of military service.

For every arsehole that goes gung-ho, a GOOD , genuine soldier potentially loses their life.

Can you not see my point?

any loss of life is the loss of what was potentially genuine.
and, yes i can see your point. but based upon personal experiences i cannot concede you are accurate without admitting my senses are unreliable.

although i do thank you for sharing your viewpoint and respect your observations on the subject matter being discussed.

thank you,
ET

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

Originally posted by The_Zomar
reply to post by Esoteric Teacher

 

Okay, we will say 10 years then. Why are we still there.

with all the major news outlets only offering less than 3% of their airtime covering the wars, while it has been the deadliest year for americans thus far since the second year, who am i suppose to rely on for an accurate representation of what answer could answer those questions?

Why are we killing innocent people?

define innocent, and what are people?

I'll tell you, that if I was an iraqi...

but you are not in iraq. have you even left indiana yet?

Why are we killing innocent people?[/
I'll tell you, that if I was an iraqi, I would LOVE to be planting IED's everywhere. Because I'm a patriot.

you do know more civilian casualties ("innocent people") are killed by IED's than any american military members, right?

I'll defend my country against any enemy, that includes the racist corrupt military. When the US military is commanded to carry out orders against the American people - Games on.

game started before you ever got here. game has been on for awhile now. the game has started. the game has begun. the game is in progress. the game is currently being played.

are you sure you know the rules to the game? (rhetorical question)
i'm not sure if we should be calling it a game.

thanks,
ET

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]