So my Iraq/Afghan war veteran good friend just killed himself.....

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


I have had many of my Nam Vet friends kill themselves. Sometimes slowly with drugs and alcohol, sometimes quickly with a pistol or driving into a bridge abutment at 100 mph. Almost in all cases the common thread was guilt.

Why does everyone assume it has anything to do with his actions in Iraq or Afghanistan? I've had 2 of military friends kill themselves and neither suicide had anything to do with the military. One had financial problems and the other had relationship issues.

Originally posted by bagari
Why does everyone assume it has anything to do with his actions in Iraq or Afghanistan? I've had 2 of military friends kill themselves and neither suicide had anything to do with the military. One had financial problems and the other had relationship issues.

What caused the relationship problems and financial problems? Did those problems manifest before or after their service?

reply to post by bagari


Because it usually does? No, you have a point that it might not always be the case, However even the examples you gave might well be related. Coping mechanisms in other areas of their lives are actually what most often goes haywire. Then the sense of isolation and helplessness sets in.

You guys are right that it is very possibly due to the rigors of war. I understand PTSD. But it could also have been something else. Without a suicide note, there's no telling. As for the friends that I'd had commit suicide, I don't know all the details. One was in debt up to his ears and his house was being foreclosed on. He hung himself right there in the garage. The other had never been lucky with women, he'd been married and gone through a messy divorce then married again within weeks. Then he started having problems with her as well. He drove to a city 30 miles from his home, parked in an isolated area, ran a hose from the tailpipe of his car to the drivers seat and poisoned himself.

Sincere condolences on the death of your friend..

Sorry to hear about your friend. I wish you, his other friends and his family best wishes through this difficult time.


[edit on 27/6/2010 by Dark Ghost]

I'll always wonder if the military did something to me. Since being out of the military I've had bizarre experiences and this has radically transformed my train of thought into a more unstable existence. Each day I try to be like myself before the experiences but I fear I never will be.

Originally posted by Tnewguy
No Voodoo, No Drugs, No experiments.

Loneliness, Feelign Worthless b/c of the SH!T you have to do. Financial issues, failing marriage.

Why do people always jump to conclusions???

Are you absolutley certain you and i share more than 99.7+% of the same identical dna?

Originally posted by Divinorumus
Who knows why anyone would be compelled to do this kind of thing to themselves. It was a war he was returning from, and that alone may have been sufficient cause in itself. He may have had a guilty conscience that led him to do that.

gulty is an irrelevent word when it comes to PTSD.

Originally posted by Moonguy

Actually whats happening over there is very simple, its called BEING CONSCIOUS, or in case of your friend he became conscious or aware of what he was really doing and what is really happening in Iraq/Afgan and couldn't live with himself anymore.

That is what war does, especially and Illegal war!...

illegal war? what war is legal?
Question: who makes the rules?
Answer: rulers make the rules, follower.

Originally posted by alaskan

The fact is - if he's killed innocent people and destroyed peoples livelihoods, there's no justice in him staying alive and living a good life afterwards.
It's a horrible thing to think about, but it's fair, and has to be something that goes through these guys' heads...

Originally posted by Breizhoo
I think that people who seek explanations other than "he was so hopeless about life that he took the only exit he saw" are being delusionnal.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
He probably killed himself because he had to live with the thought of killing innocent children in the middle east. Who *could* murder innocent children and live on with their lives?

Originally posted by SunnyDee
It's most like a combination of all of the above(except the voodoo!).
Normal human beings .....
.... and just the world we live in makes it hard to come home and get back to something normal.

normal?

Originally posted by The_Zomar

The fact is that people do suffer from PTSD when returning from murdering people on battlefields. They don't develop PTSD from being claustrophobic.

This is the real world, not your imagination. Or whomever's imagination you let mould your mind.

Originally posted by jolois
I don't think it's voodoo or chemicals.. It's just facing the "truth".
They are forced to see people dieing,etc. and it's really hard for their mind.

Simple as that, for me.

Originally posted by samsamm9
Suicide is a very sad way of leaving...

...except if you're a soldier who kills innocent people.

And I'd like to think, whoever kills , hurts , terrorises , or steals innocent

people , will suffer greatly , I wish it would be a rule of life.

With no disrespect....Karma's a bitch hein ?

Originally posted by The_Zomar

The thing is that I'm intelligent enough to not participate in a war.

really?

There is a disturbingly horrendous pattern in some posts here on this thread.

Me? I have been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder associated with Traumatic Brain Injury, for whatever you may choose to derive from such inept labels. I was firefighter from 1998 to 2009. A firefighter in the United States Air Force, that is. Usually home stationed at Nellis AFB in Nevada. I spent more than 3 years in warzones. The things my senses have endured … exceeds what Webster alone can permit me to share. Prior to being a militant firefighter for 11 years I worked for/with Developmentally Disabled Children in Illinois for 11 years. Judge my character, judge away…

Now? No one will hire me. “You are too qualified for this position”
Now? No one will hire me. They are afraid of what they do not understand, and they do not understand PTSD. If any doctor did, there would be a cure, now wouldn’t there?

so tax payers pay me 2 grand a month and sit here on my ass and blog..

Firefighters, we cannot forget, we shall always remember
What this world did to our kind on the eleventh of September

Firefighters cannot forget, we will always remember
What happened to us on the eleventh of September

My condolences to your friend and his family/friends.

speculativeoptimist - posted on 27-6-2010 @ 12:02 PM

My sincere sympathy to you, his family and friends.

Night Star - posted on 27-6-2010 @ 12:12 PM

WHAT FRIENDS & WHAT FAMILY DO YOU SPEAK OF???

www.abovetopsecret.com...

How Do Americans Define "Freedom", "Friends", & "Family"?????

A brief history of “common sense”.

Actions speak louder than words. This means if what a person actually does is inconsistent with what a person says, don’t believe what they say more than what they choose to do.

Friends do not mandatorily expect friends to conform to expectations so numerous they shall not live long enough to learn. This is not an example of loving friends.

Family does not mandatorily expect family to conform to expectations so numerous they shall not live long enough to learn. This is not an example of loving family.

Freedom is not defined by the requirements of conforming to a system that has more laws than any child born today can live long enough to learn before they die.

….snip….
Let’s take a poll:

Americans,
If America took all their supreme court justices, all their senators and all their congressmen and locked them up in a huge plush hotel with all the necessities that they required, but didn’t let them out until they wrote down from memory all the laws that currently exist, would they be able to do so prior to all dying of old age?

If they can’t do it then how is it “FREEDOM” to expect any newborn to learn all their societies mandatory expectations?

Originally posted by CREAM
Although you may be right that there could have been other factors, I dont think you can really know.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
PTSD Is common ....
.... Ignorance of the condition often leads to a devastating outcome.

(*although the ptsd has no commonality about it between individuals, in my experiences)

Originally posted by alaskan
PTSD is a real thing, but people that act like the soldiers aren't being used as lab rats and chemical sponges are ignorant fools.

Originally posted by Xeven

Originally posted by The_Zomar
They always have been given untested drugs to allow them to withstand desert heat and not eat or sleep for days.

*(during one of my many deployments i once went more than 5 weeks without sleep. i was told that isn't "normal")

Originally posted by signal2noise
Jesus, Mary and Joseph, the ignorance I read on this board is just mindbloggling.

Second, have any of you rocket scientist heard of anything called, "Survivor's guilt"? Just part and parcel of the whole PTSD gig. Guy goes to war, makes it thru without being killed or wounded, then sits around thinking, "why me?"

I'm a thirty eight year old boy right now. and although i am drawn to tears as i sit and type these words... reading through the responses i have seen...thank you for sharing these words with ATSers.

Some guys work thru it...

no, they do not.

and the words you all depend upon to communicate
do not permit us to share or offer a medium to relate
what we have had to endure, hoping it is not too late
to find those words within us, truisms of our souls fate
you don't want to know, words for a intra-mental checkmate...

we have stood in rank with angelic faces
we have done battle in the darkest of places

End Transmission,
ET

I'm a soldier, I've been there, there are days I want to kill myself. But you know what... I've had thoughts like that since I was a child who realized the games I play at the playground aren't so "fun" anymore. What is "fun" what is "pleasure" what is satisfaction??? Being in the army only further seperates people from these facades and either makes or breaks us.

Once you've realized your life is a lie there is nothing you can do but change it or bring it to a screeching halt. Unfortunately not everyone can see through the lies of consumerism that are plaguing our world.

I think its probably simply the feeling of being alone.

After being in an alternate reality, this illusion of reality seems a place they don't relate to anymore.

Once your eyes are open - you cannot go back.

reply to post by dominicus


I am so sorry that this happened.

I am so sorry for you and your friend.

But I believe that war messes people's minds up, and he was in two.

When you have been on the killing fields you cannot ever get back the essence of what you were before these unspeakable experiences.

No drugs needed. It is just always there, in your mind.

reply to post by dominicus


I think "Jedi Mind Trick" said it very well in the song "Uncommon Valor (A Vietnam Story)"

I don't know why I'm over here this job is evil
They send me here to Vietnam to kill innocent people
My mother wrote me said the President he doesn't care
We trying to leave the footprints of America here
They say we're trying to stop Chinese expansion
But I ain't seen no Chinese since we landed
Sent my whole entire unit thinking we can win
Against the Viet-Cong guerillas there in Gia Dinh
I didn't sign up to kill women or any children
For every enemy soldier, we killing six civilians
Yeah, and that ain't right to me
I ain't got enough of mother #in' fight in me
It frightens me and I just want to see my son and moms
But over here they dropping seven million tons of bombs
I spend my days dodging all these booby traps and mines
And at night, praying to God that I get back alive
And I'm forced to sit back and wonder
Why I was a part of 'Operation Rolling Thunder'
In a fox hole with nine months left here
Jungle like the #in' harbinger of death here

[Interlude]
(soldier speaking)
I don't want to be here. I'm scared, I just want to go home.
(officer speaking)
You #ing kidding me? Don't be a pussy. Don't you love your country?
(soldier speaking)
I like being here. I'm ready.

[Verse 2 - R.A. The Rugged Man]
True story...
Call me Thorburn, John H. Staff Sergeant, Marksman
Skilling, killing, illing
I'm able and willing
Kill a village elephant, rapin' and pillage your village
Illegitimate killers, US Military guerillas
This ain't no real war, Vietnam #
World War II, that's a war, this is just a military conflict
Soothing, drug-abusing, Vietnamese women screwing
Sex, gambling and boozin', all the # is amusing
Bitches and guns, this is every man's dream
I don't want to go home, where I'm just a ordinary human being
Special OP, Huey chopper gun ship, run #
Gook run when the mini-gun spit, won't miss, kill #
Spit four-thousand bullets a minute
Victor Charlie, hit trigger, hit it
I'm in it to win it, get it
The lieutenant hinted the villain, I've ended up killing
I did it, cripple, did it, pictures I painted is vivid, live it
A wizard with weapons, a secret mission we about to begin it
Government funded, behind enemy lines bullets is spraying
It's heating up, a hundred degrees
The enemies the North-Vietnamese, bitch please
Ain't no sweat, I'm told be at ease.
Until I see the pilot got hit, and we about to hit some trees
till the rotor broke, crash land, American man
Cambodia, right in the enemy hand
Take a swig of the whiskey to calm us
Them yellow men wearing black pajamas
They want to harm us
They all up on us
Bang, bang, bullet hit my chest, feel no pain
To my left, the captain caught a bullet right in his brain
Body parts flying, loss of limbs, explosions
Bad intentions, I see my best friend's intestins
Pray to the one above, It's raining and I'm covered in mud
I think I'm dying, I feel dizzy, I'm losing blood
I see my childhood, I'm back in the arms of my mother
I see my whole life, I see Christ, I see bright lights
I see Israelites, Muslims and Christians at peace, no fights
Blacks, Whites, Asians, people of all types
I must have died, then I woke up, suprised I'm alive
I'm in a hospital bed, they rescued me, I survived
I escaped the war, came back
But ain't escape Agent Orange, two of my kids born handicapped
Spastic, quadriplegia, micro cephalic
Cerebral palsy, cortical blindness, name it they had it
My son died he ain't live, but I still try to think positive
Cause in life, God take, God give

I don't know, choose a reason.

[edit on 28-6-2010 by LittleSecret]

reply to post by LittleSecret


Great lyrics.

Great expression about all wars.

Why do we keep killing?

Originally posted by The_Zomar
He probably killed himself because he had to live with the thought of killing innocent children in the middle east. Who *could* murder innocent children and live on with their lives?

The Zomar.....

That's just a damned awful reply.

Sincerely
Maybe...maybe not

i think part of PTSD & TBI (traumatic brain injury) is...

knowing without doubt, knowing with no more proof needed...

some who give so much...


how does one communicate that they have given more than what was theirs to give, when no words can be found to describe such a phenomenon?

and having found it within yourself to do what was just a moment ago a percieved impossibility, now seeing what lies in others...

there are things here, among us, and in play
there are true things among us, here & today
there are things among us that share and say
there are things here, among us, and in play

reply to post by dominicus


Dominicus…..

Soldier vaccine shots are destroying brain functions

There is something material to this issue of ”soldier vaccine shots” that can effect those soldiers.

I can tell you this does occur. However, I believe it is limited to very specialised areas.

I speak from the experience of a close personal friend of mine who was “medical” & “combat” qualified & involved in forward scouting / investigation pertaining to biological WMD.

The “vaccinations” (some experimental) my friend was subjected to numbered approximately 30. The results on his health were devastating. This combined with very serious PTSD wrecked him completely.

I get very sad just writing about it.

Kind regards
Maybe…maybe not


[edit on 28-6-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

www.abovetopsecret.com... #1055

www.abovetopsecret.com... h#1039

www.abovetopsecret.com... Search#1068

Sympathy to you for the loss of your friend. Links above to abovetopsecret previous threads relating to unknown vaccinations being injected into the US military personnel, not sure whether theres a connection there with your friend maybe.

reply to post by alaskan


Great post mate. I have a very close friend in Afghanistan atm and I can really relate to the mixed feelings you're having.

Sometimes your principles and real life situations clash, it's been very confusing for me.

Sorry to her about your friend. Very sorry.

WHY do we have to know WHY????

I have asked that question for 23 years about a childhood friend who shot himself. I will never have the answer. NEVER. Humanly speaking, I want one. I know I won't get one. People assume. Fact is it's never one thing, life is much more complicated than that. It wasn't war, debt or relationship issues. It was all those things and more.

[edit on 6/28/2010 by shockedonlooker]