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posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 08:07 AM
reply to post by Shadowfoot

I had a long reply going, but got disconnected by my wonderful software, and now for lack of time I'll simply ask you what my last paragraph had.

Please tell me more about Taoism 5 and how you managed to sift tthrough all those cultures and data sets in order to derive a useful model. I understand how you did it with a non-objective intuitive mind, but the underlying methodology or philosophical application sounds intriguing to me.

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 12:31 PM
reply to post by Roswell54

5 Element Theory Basic course

In 5 element theory the physical universe is broken down into 5 inter-relating constituents: 1. Fire 2. earth 3. metal 4. water 5. wood ( this progression through the elements as listed 1-5 is refered to as the creation cycle) In the generation of the physical universe these 5 elements progressively create the following elements in this cycle by their Fire makes earth (think ashes from fire) Earth makes metal (think metal is mined from earth) metal makes water (think condensation on a glass) water makes wood (think moss, or algea).

Now to whichever extreme, or lack of any one element there is a reciprocal growth or lack of growth in the following generated element. This brings us to a different cycle that runs concurrently with the creation cycle and it is refered to as the destruction cycle it moves in this manner: 1. Fire destroys metal (think melting) 2. metal destroys wood (think axe chopping wood) 3. wood damns earth ( think wooden retaining wall for a garden) 4. earth damns water ( think the obvious here) 5. Waters destroys fire ( again rather obvious) There is an additional cycle refered to as the child insulting the parent however that necessitates a little more time in grade with the aforementioned perhaps to get a grasp of entirely.

Now everything is broken down to its elements in 5 element theory for instance the human body is composed of 12 meridians located on the dense physical body ( there are others refered to as beltways) these 12 meridians correspond to the organ systems of the 1.Fire: Heart, Small intestines, supplemental fire: Triple warmer, pericardium 2. earth: spleen, pancreas, stomach 3. metal: Lungs, Large intestine 4. water: kidneys and bladder 5. wood: liver, gall bladder.

Everything else in the world has like sets of definable energies not necessarily in harmony to one another which sets up the cause of disease in the body or disharmony in the greater whole by virtue of the aforementioned cycles lets take an example from the human body:

Lets say we have a student in senior year in college, he/she is studying constantly, worrying about exams, worrying about money...the emotion of worry instigates use of earth energy, in this case too much refered to as excess. So an abundance of earth will create an abundance of metal potentiating a number of issues as you know earth controls water, and metal controls (destroys) wood so you now have an excess of earth based on mental/emotional imbalance which could effect negatively the quality of waters energy likewise effecting the organ function of the kidney and bladder, or in conjunction an exacerbation of the emotional qualities attached to that organ in this case fear, and paranoia.

As you see, each organ in the human body has an emotional character both positive and negative in cause and effect for instance: heart: joy/cruelty small intestine: discretion/indiscretion stomach/spleen: nuturing/worrying, lungs/large intestine: sadness-social relationships, kidney/bladder fear/fight or flight Im going to have to continue later...sorry but work is getting busy

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 01:22 PM
reply to post by Shadowfoot

I've tried twice already to reply, but bad luck with my PC and this site. I'll keep this one short to hopefully post it before this version dies a virtual death.

Please explain Taoism 5 and how you managed to assimilate your knowledge through various cultures and data sets into a working model? You've hit upon a most interesting thread - the subjective vs the objective, the intuition vs the mental. Here in lies one of the primary keys to the ancient mind that values the soul/spirit over the body, because they understood the illusion, the purpose, and the true goals of 3 dimension existence.

posted on Jun, 25 2010 @ 03:54 PM
What you are refering to as Taoism 5 is 5 element theory that I have begun to describe ad nauseum in the post above
to tie things up with a quick conclusion into one of the applications of 5 element I will return to the latter post.

Noting the 5 elements and there presence in all 3d phenomena I will use herbs as medicine in the classic Chinese model which will in turn seguey into an understanding as to how I assimilated subjective models.

All the herbs in Chinese pharmacopeia are listed according to which elements they provide and in what quality (hot cold neutral cool warm). Cold, fluids, etc..=yin ;heat and solids = yang. Each plant is listed to act upon one or more of the 12 meridians which are indicative of their element: liver meridian= wood, heart= fire

It was during the excecises necessary to incorporate 5 element theory and differential diagnosis in Chinese medicine where I discovered keys to unlocking subjective understanding and intuitive faculties.

You see oriental medicine uses entirely how a thing presents itself as the clue to its ultimate 5 element definition. Red=yang=fire=heart=etc...White= yin= cool=lung=etc.. rather then the western objective"Newtonion" physical paradigm of breaking things down to their least common denominator of physically verfiable constituency. Now, what occurs here for the western mind trying to apprehend the subjective eastern/ancient shamanistic mind is an inability to grasp the philosphical tenants using our left brained model for observation. The re-training of the mind conditioned from sitting with the subjective terminology allows for a contemplative state (hence receptive to more subtle characteristics)to take place. This is truely the key to instigating intuition and training the right side of the brain to operate in tandem, or sometimes above left brained analytical constructs.

Why the medical model worked for me in the beginning was that by practicing eastern herbal medicine in the west I was required to practice and apply from the subjective while validating to the western client through the objective resolution of the symptom picture.

Meditation per say is not required but the aptitude to quiet the mind and simply "listen" rather then extrapolating via objective reasoning seems to hold the secret.

The beauty of the eastern paradigms is they did not suffer the same censorship for as long a period of time as the subjective sciences of the west. There is an unbroken continuum in eastern thought that travels better then 5000 years directly into its oral shamanistic origin. The west on the other hand suffered a real blow through the churches quashing of all things immaterial labeling them as things of the devil. This 2000 year old process seriously stunted our ability in the west to accomodate ephemeral non physical ideas. Hence if we cant see it we cant give it a value...this is not the case in oriental medicine as things are qualified by their effects even if causitively unseen (and likewise in medicine the effects are observed and contemplated to treat the unseen root).

Bottom line: To elicit an understanding from any model other than the one you are acclimated to, you must first remove "self" from the observation and acquaint yourself as if a new born with the subject at hand.

I think I will have to write about this again and evolve this thread this weekend..theres too many interuptions presently. Im really enjoying the exchange.

posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 08:20 AM
reply to post by Shadowfoot

Okay, I'm finally back in the groove. I figured out the "page 2" issue
and realized my operator error, but the good news is it solicited two wonderful responses from you that helped confirm a theory of mine.

Everything you discussed including the left-right brain issues between East and West and the 5 elements - reality model, energy, consciousness all guess what - fit almost perfect with the theology I'm talking about that is derived from the Luxor temple in Egypt.

There reality model was earth, air, fire, water, and metal with the birth/life/death cycle also plus a heavy dose of math (not the diluted numerology of today) and the 32 life principles that are confuses with Gods by the weak minded Egyptologists.

The author is R. A. Schwaller de Lubicz, and I'm digesting him currently, which will take (me) several years. My theory, or at least my current mind set assuming this hasn't already been thought, is that the either A. Egypt and China were derived from the basicly same source philosophically or B. Their reality models were interweaved at some point because I'm convinced deep down there isn't much difference between the Sacred Science of ancient Egypt and the eastern Buddhism, Taoism, and medicines.

The farther back one's mind can look without the influences (filters) of the last 1,700 years, one finds too many world-wide similarities, which tend to reinforce the previous civilization concept - call it Atlantus if you like.

The important thing is what people like you and I can derive from what we find in order to better understand the world and ourselves. I felt challanged as a child - as if on a treasure hunt. The world (instictively) seemed so screwed up to me, I had to find the lies and the truths in a strange cultural soap dominted by greed and materialism, where people were acting crazy. I had to understand "why."

My Dad flew in B-52s in the 50s and early 60s. I watched the ICBMs come up out of their silos during the Cuban missle crisis - smoking off their liquid fuel vapors. I saw Jack Ruby kill Lee H. Ozwald on Sunday morning TV, so I knew it was interesting times to be alive.

I'll be on vacation for two weeks in West Texas, but will take the laptop and stay in contact. Please let me know your new thread. I think you should go for it - Eastern medicine, plants, herbs, philosophy etc. I'll learn a lot.

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