Can't prove "thermite", but molten steel is undeniable.

It requires temperatures of at least 5,000 fahrenheit to melt steel. Diesel jet fuel does not reach these temperatures and the fires in the buildings were short lived. Firefighter tape recordings prove that only small pockets of fire were still burning in the buildings seconds before their collapse.

The USGS Spectroscopy Lab produced images which showed dense thermal hot spots days and weeks after the attacks. ABC News reported that, "the temperature at the core of "the pile," is near 2000 degrees Fahrenheit, according to fire officials, who add that the fires are too deep for firefighters to get to."

In perfect conditions the maximum temperature that can be reached by hydrocarbons such as jet fuel burning in air is 1520° F (825° C). When the World Trade Center collapsed the deeply buried fires would have been deprived of oxygen and their temperatures would have significantly decreased.

Why was the temperature at the core of "the pile" nearly 500° F hotter than the maximum burning temperature of jet fuel a full seven days after the collapses? There were no infernos in either of the twin towers before they collapsed, so what caused the hot spots deep in their wreckage?

Dr. Frank Gayle , Metals Expert, on the jet fuel fires which burned in the WTC buildings:

"Your gut reaction would be the jet fuel is what made the fire so very intense, a lot of people figured that's what melted the steel. Indeed it didn't, the steel did not melt."

Molten steel did not exist in the WTC buildings prior to the collapses, but...

Molten steel was found �three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed [from WTCs 1 & 2],� Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI) of Phoenix, Maryland is on record as saying . He said molten steel was also found at 7 WTC, which collapsed mysteriously in the late afternoon.

One of the more unusual artifacts to emerge from the rubble was a rock-like object which has come to be known as "the meteorite". It is a fused element of molten steel and concrete all fused by the heat into one single element.

This is from an article that promotes thermite, however I do not wish to debate thermite/mate in this thread.

What I wish to debate is why there was molten steel at ground zero yet people deny it?

My guess is that not a single scenario that does not involve foul play beyond flying airplanes into buildings can be thought of by debunkers. When I did a search for "molten steel ground zero" the first page was a debunker site, the second one was the link I posted. The "debunker" page did not address one single aspect of the page I quoted.

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reply to post by jprophet420


Please put forward some evidence that molten steel was found at the WTC site ; no-one ever does. I am sure you are aware Mark Loizeaux never saw any.

Yes, we can prove that thermite was present.

And it actually was not thermite that was used, it was THERMATE. It is a variation of thermite used in extremely high explosives and can liquefy anything that it comes in contact with, hence the fact that the biggest piece of office equipment found at ground zero was a 4 inch X 4 inch square of a numeric pad from a telephone.

NYPD officers and others reported smelling thermate, which has a distinct scent.

They new immediately that explosives had been present and thats when the rumors of bombs in the buildings began, until they were snuffed out by the MSM shortly after.

Those rumors started after the NYPD officers smelled the explosives and reported back to CC that bombs were present.

I was in the Army for 2.5 years and during my time I met some high ordinance guys that were on a QRT for high explosives found in the field.
I learned that thermate is widely used in combat in various types of explosives.

Here is some info taken from wiki to corroborate my claim:



en.wikipedia.org...

Thermate is a variation of thermite and is an incendiary pyrotechnic composition that can generate short bursts of very high temperatures focused on a small area for a short period of time. It is used primarily in incendiary grenades.
The main chemical reaction in thermate is the same as in thermite: an aluminothermic reaction between powdered aluminium and a metal oxide. In addition to thermite, thermate also contains sulfur and sometimes barium nitrate, both of which increase its thermal effect, create flame in burning, and significantly reduce the ignition temperature[citation needed]. Various mixtures of these compounds can be called thermate, but to avoid confusion with thermate-TH3, one can refer to them as thermite variants or analogs. The composition by weight of Thermate-TH3 (in military use) is 68.7% thermite, 29.0% barium nitrate, 2.0% sulfur and 0.3% binder (such as PBAN). As both thermite and thermate are notoriously difficult to ignite, initiating the reaction normally requires supervision and sometimes persistent effort.
The sulfur generates a eutectic system when molten thermate interacts with iron or steel, lowering the melting point of iron. This is useful in military applications cutting through tank armor or other hardened military vehicles or bunkers. As with thermite, thermate's ability to burn without an external supply of oxygen renders it useful for underwater incendiary devices.
Because they are not intended to be thrown, thermate incendiary grenades generally have a shorter delay fuse than other grenades (e.g., two seconds), although this is contrary to the information at the fas.org website that states they are designed to be thrown up to 25 metres (82 ft).

reply to post by KillenfizzenHumboflorator


Can you please give me a source for the NYPD officers and others who smelt thermate ? Thanks.

reply to post by Alfie1

Again,

One of the more unusual artifacts to emerge from the rubble was a rock-like object which has come to be known as "the meteorite". It is a fused element of molten steel and concrete all fused by the heat into one single element.

A co-worker of mine has a piece of molten steel from ground zero.

The unexplained presence of molten metal at the World Trade Center (WTC) puzzled Jones and he contacted this writer to confirm the reports first published in American Free Press in 2002. These reports came from two men involved in the removal of the rubble: Peter Tully of Tully Construction of Flushing, N.Y., and Mark Loizeaux of Controlled Demolition, Inc. of Phoenix, Md.

Tully told AFP that he had seen pools of �literally molten
steel� in the rubble.

Loizeaux confirmed this: �Yes, hot spots of molten steel in the basements,� he said, �at the bottom of the elevator shafts of the main towers, down seven levels.�

Tully reported it directly, Mark reported it via subordinates.

9eleven.info...
svnlsenetter.files.wordpress.com...
doujibar.ganriki.net...
is.gd...

The observation of molten metal at Ground Zero was emphasized publicly by Leslie Robertson, the structural engineer responsible for the design of the World Trade Center Towers, who reported that "As of 21 days after the attack, the fires were still burning and molten steel was still running." (Williams, 2001, p. 3.)

Dr. Keith Eaton toured Ground Zero and stated in The Structural Engineer , "They showed us many fascinating slides [Eaton] continued, ranging from molten metal which was still red hot weeks after the event, to 4-inch thick steel plates sheared and bent in the disaster." (Structural Engineer , September 3, 2002, p. 6;.

[edit on 20-6-2010 by jprophet420]

reply to post by Alfie1


Surely, once I find the video.

The video I saw that told of NYPD officers and others smelling thermate was actually an interview conducted just days after the collapse of the WTC.

Also, within that video, there were NY firefighters that smelled and reported the presence of high explosives. I will search for the video, but in the mean time have a look at this website: rebelnews.org...

Read ALL of the article. There is a wealth of information within the article that pertains to my claim.

reply to post by jprophet420


When you say "meteorite" I hope you are not referring to that item with obviously unmelted reinforcing iron bar in it. Have you got a pic ?

Mark Loizeaux has made it clear he never personally ever saw molten steel at the WTC site :-

www.911myths.com...

reply to post by KillenfizzenHumboflorator


Thanks, I would be interested. You are the first person I have come across to refer to smelling thermate.

I am rather surprised that it has a smell or that anyone would recognise it.

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by jprophet420

 

When you say "meteorite" I hope you are not referring to that item with obviously unmelted reinforcing iron bar in it. Have you got a pic ?

Mark Loizeaux has made it clear he never personally ever saw molten steel at the WTC site :-

www.911myths.com...

Of course I did and posted a pic of it. If you can find a pic of anything similar to come out of a burning building lets see it.

However the pictures of molten steel at ground zero are of course rock solid proof, Marks proxy observation and meteor picture aside.

reply to post by Alfie1


Just because ONE person, no matter what reputation he has, says that HE personally saw not traces of molten metal does not mean that it was not present......

reply to post by jprophet420


Please show me pics of molten steel at the WTC site.

The " meteorite " not only has unmelted iron bar in it but legibly printed paper matter !

reply to post by Alfie1


Absolutely, therma(i)te has a very distinct scent. I know what explosives smell like from being in the army due to frequent FTX missions that involved explosives.

Thermate has a sulfuric scent with a very heavy muskiness that smells like nothing else out there and after one has been exposed to it just once, the smell sticks with you. So, when one smells it at a site of a supposed terrorist attack, one can only conclude that explosives are present........even though the official NIST report states that no explosives were used.....

That is an insult to all of those who smelled thermate on that day.

Originally posted by KillenfizzenHumboflorator
reply to post by Alfie1

 

Just because ONE person, no matter what reputation he has, says that HE personally saw not traces of molten metal does not mean that it was not present......

The point is that Mark Loizeaux was put forward as a witness and he isn't.

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by jprophet420

 

Please show me pics of molten steel at the WTC site.

The " meteorite " not only has unmelted iron bar in it but legibly printed paper matter !

As I said they are linked.

Originally posted by KillenfizzenHumboflorator
reply to post by Alfie1

 

Absolutely, therma(i)te has a very distinct scent. I know what explosives smell like from being in the army due to frequent FTX missions that involved explosives.

Thermate has a sulfuric scent with a very heavy muskiness that smells like nothing else out there and after one has been exposed to it just once, the smell sticks with you. So, when one smells it at a site of a supposed terrorist attack, one can only conclude that explosives are present........even though the official NIST report states that no explosives were used.....

That is an insult to all of those who smelled thermate on that day.

OK, when you turn up the statements from NYPD officers and others who smelt thermate at the WTC that day please let me know.

Originally posted by jprophet420

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by jprophet420

 

Please show me pics of molten steel at the WTC site.

The " meteorite " not only has unmelted iron bar in it but legibly printed paper matter !

As I said they are linked.

Sorry, I don't understand your reply.

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by KillenfizzenHumboflorator
reply to post by Alfie1

 

Just because ONE person, no matter what reputation he has, says that HE personally saw not traces of molten metal does not mean that it was not present......

The point is that Mark Loizeaux was put forward as a witness and he isn't.

Please re-read his quote, as he simply confirmed it. He is a witness via proxy that the US government trusts. When he cleaned up the Oklahoma city bombing, he did not physically go in and remove every piece of debris himself. He relied on input from his employees. He is president of CDI, and was contracted by the government for a reason. His subordinates reported it to him, yes, that makes it hearsay and inadmissible in court. However if this was a court case the people who actually found the molten steel would be subpoenaed.

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by jprophet420

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by jprophet420

 

Please show me pics of molten steel at the WTC site.

The " meteorite " not only has unmelted iron bar in it but legibly printed paper matter !

As I said they are linked.

Sorry, I don't understand your reply.

Then you are not capable of debate. I linked the pictures. Its almost impossible to reflect the fact that you said "show me pics" and I replied "as I said they are linked" without insulting you. If you really don't understand please stop replying.

Thanks.

reply to post by jprophet420



I am sorry but I don't think there is such a legal concept as " witness via proxy ". You are either a witness or you are not. As you have correctly identified yourself, anything Mr Loixeaux had to say about molten steel was hearsay.

reply to post by jprophet420


Oh I see. There is nothing in your links showing molten steel. Your close-up of the "meteorite" is useful though as it shows extremely clearly how the reinforcing bars within it patently haven't melted.