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Originally posted by gatewaywithin
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa
The evidence was there! Do you honestly believe a quack snake oil salesman would receive the attention of the MAYO clinic ?Do you honestly believe a quack would be published and discussed in science magazines, newspapers,medical conferences around the world? Let me answer that for you...Of course not.
Originally posted by gatewaywithin
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa
oH really, The Smithsonian Institute, released this report on Rife's Universal Microscope in 1944.Here is the pdf file of the actual report.
www.rife.de...
www.rife.de...
A similar, yet different report was also released in the same year in the Journal of the Franklin institute.
edit to add
More quackery I presume.
[edit on 22-6-2010 by gatewaywithin]
Originally posted by Bedlam
Otherwise I'm afraid the tingling and muscle contractions the Beck unit causes will cause an amplified placebo effect, just because it's so dramatic. You'd have to have an equal level of "WTF" factor in the placebo cuff.
In a remarkable discovery at Albert Einstein College of Medicine, N.Y.C. in 1990, it was shown that a minute current (50 to 100 MICRO amperes) can alter outer protein layers of HIV virus in a petri dish so as to prevent its subsequent attachment to receptor sites. (SCIENCE NEWS, March 30, 1991 page 207.)
AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION HAS BEEN OUTLAWED
The A.M.A. was found guilty in a U.S. Court of Law for violating the Anti-trust act a number of years ago. Dr. Morris Fishbine, President of the AMA, at that time, was sentenced to a prison term and the AMA was fined and admonished to cease and desist from their illegal activities. Fishbine didn’t serve his prison term and the fine was not heavy enough to worry the association so they have continued to operate in violation to the law ever since then. Therefore, they are an "outlaw gang."
Originally posted by Angeldust1199
Your holy peer review system have killed thousands upon thousands of people, just think VIOXX. Oops, well now tell me - where is the prosecutions, outrage and character assassinations? - But it's all about covering yourself - if anyone die from your treatment, well just too bad, as this is peer reviewed stuff.
Now with this wonderful foul proof system in place, please let me know how the procedure is to get anything into a clinical trial, petitions don't work - 11.000 plus patient testimonials don't work - In fact people suffering from autoimmune diseases are so desperate that they now made their own worldwide database.
The only thing that peer review is good for, is to cover the MD's so in case a product like VIOXX slips out and people start to die, they will not be prosecuted, because the product have been peer reviewed, Whereas things like Beck devices only need to harm 1 person, and it's banned immediately by FDA. The day doctors learn to take responsibility of their job, is the day we all will be healthier, but don't expect that to happen anytime soon.
Ridicule have always been the means of the medical field. Just a thing like stomach ulcers was linked to stress, but when someone came up with the idea that it was a bacteria (H. Pylori) they were ridiculed, remember Dr. Semmelweis who introduced the hand washing, he was ridiculed as well.
Only when it's in the interest of big pharma, things seem to progress at a blistering phase, and by the way - could anyone please let me know where the peer review, double blind journal is for the "so important" vaccine against swine flu that is rotting everywhere???
Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
I'm with Bedlam on this one. Rife and others like him are the definition of "snake oil salesmen" (granted, Rife is dead, so he's not much of anything anymore, I suppose). You simply CANNOT claim something is a "cure" or "treatment" when you have zero credible evidence to support the claim.
Originally posted by arpanet
JAMA recognizes over 200 possible causes for cancer; without having the actual causative factor the AMA usually recommends some form of chemotherapy. Chemotherapy has never had a success rate higher than 10% and is usually recorded at around 3%. Now that is the definition of "snake oil" and the clowns recommending this poison are the definition of "snake oil salesman".
I find it hypocritical how some require replicable data in a medical journal to accept a hypothesis, yet don't require the same data to form a negative opinion of that same hypothesis.
A real professional would withhold judgment until replication is at least attempted, but if your waiting for clinical trials to start on a method of curing cancer that isn't expensive I would not hold your breathe. Why you say? Because in a monetary system where the bottom line is money not health, your not going to find too many interested in funding a profitless project.
Don't take my word for this, walk into memorial Sloan-Kettering and tell the board of directors that you have an inexpensive cure for cancer, and watch as your laughed out of the building while the directors disperse in their private jets and expensive cars. These people are NOT in the business of helping people, simply because there is no money in a healthy populous!
Just as a side note, I know children who have better sense of morals than to chastise a dead person, let alone a medical professional...
Originally posted by Angeldust1199
Thank you - for spoon feeding me - but where is the long term side effects study? - I didn't ask for observations - Usually the medical field, new products (that's what they are) have to go through multiple clinical trials which usually end up taking a decade or more, so as I stated please spoon feed me with more from your bible about the long term side effect study.
And will you explain to me what the term "there's currently no gold standard" covers?
And it's seems strange that you're so tied up in your work, and yet - you seem to have the time to enter all those discussions.
But when working with your clients you don't have time to pursue additional information? - well I think you have exposed someone very nicely! - have a nice day, and luckily my MD do have time to think for himself for which I'm very thankful.
Now how was it with the Semmelweis:
As a result, his ideas were rejected by the medical community. Other more subtle factors may also have played a role. Some doctors, for instance, were offended at the suggestion that they should wash their hands; they felt that their social status as gentlemen was inconsistent with the idea that their hands could be unclean.
Despite various publications of results where hand-washing reduced mortality to below 1%, Semmelweis's practice earned widespread acceptance only years after his death, when Louis Pasteur confirmed the germ theory
H. Pylori
It was not until the early 1980s, when two young Australian physicians, Barry Marshall and Robin Warren of the Royal Perth Hospital in Perth, Western Australia, again raised the possibility that bacteria caused ulcers. Fueled by their own persistence and enthusiasm–and initially ridiculed by their colleagues–Marshall and Warren established beyond any doubt that H. pylori plays a critical role in creating gastritis and ulcers.
science.education.nih.gov... ocument&Highlight=0,pylori
So now do I need to spoon feed you more - in order to find the word ridicule?
Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
Do you have a source for those figures? The death rate for untreated cancers is nearly 100%. If chemotherapy only had a success rate of about 3%, that would mean the cancer death rate would be about 90-97%, which it isn't.
You clearly don't understand science or logical, then. Why would I believe something si true until proven false? No one has proven nebulae aren't made of cotton candy. Do you believe that, too? The attitude of science is that nothing can be taken as true unless it is proven. Plain and simple.
I would explain it very simply so that you aren't lost: We are talking about cures and you have the audacity to bring up b12 shots that DO NOT cure cancer, but give energy back to the patient who was robbed of energy from chemo. in the first place? After months and thousands of dollars wasted on chemotherapy, I must bow to the NIH/hospitals for absorbing the cost of a b12 shot. These are stand up guys now, I would like to buy them a beer. (If I wasn't in so much debt, that is)
Really? The NIH funded a ton of studies on the efficacy of giving B12 shots to cancer patients. It was found that B12 helped quite a bit, gave them energy, and reduced neuropathy.... The cost is literally so negligible that the hospital has decided to just absorb the cost. In YOUR worldview, this study would never have seen the light of day, as it helps patients without providing profit. So, how do you explain it?
You don't think a pharmaceutical company would jump on the chance to be the single company on the planet to "cure" cancer?
Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but being dead doesn't confer sainthood. Stalin is dead, too, and I personally spit on his grave a week ago at Red Square.
Originally posted by arpanet
"….chemotherapy’s success record is dismal. It can achieve remissions in about 7% of all human cancers; for an additional 15% of cases, survival can be "prolonged" beyond the point at which death would be expected without treatment. This type of survival is not the same as a cure or even restored quality of life."—John Diamond, M.D.
"A study of over 10,000 patients shows clearly that chemo’s supposedly strong track record with Hodgkin’s disease (lymphoma) is actually a lie. Patients who underwent chemo were 14 times more likely to develop leukemia and 6 times more likely to develop cancers of the bones, joints, and soft tissues than those patients who did not undergo chemotherapy" NCI Journal 87:10
"My studies have proved conclusively that untreated cancer victims live up to four times longer than treated individuals. If one has cancer and opts to do nothing at all, he will live longer and feel better than if he undergoes radiation, chemotherapy or surgery." Prof. Hardin Jones of National Cancer Institute of Bethesda, Maryland.
Those are just a few, I am sure I could really dig and find wonderful numbers about this poison. The problem is 5 months after admittance a patient is considered a cancer survivor, even if on the 6th month they die. The numbers are obscure from the beginning.
Sorry your right I guess I missed "logical" class in college, but I did take logic. So lets assign variables and work this out: (key: x=statement, a=true, b=false, c=data) if x+c=a then x=a, if x+c=b then x=b. Since there is no substantial data like you said then x can only equal x. Now comes the hypocritical part: you ridicule others for lacking substantial data to form their conclusion x=a and then you turn around and claim x=b while lacking the same data as x=a. I am not saying I walk around claiming everything to be true until proven false, I am merely stating that you cannot come to any conclusion without adequate data. Unless your a doctor that is, then logic doesn't apply to you! *rolling eyes*
I would explain it very simply so that you aren't lost: We are talking about cures and you have the audacity to bring up b12 shots that DO NOT cure cancer, but give energy back to the patient who was robbed of energy from chemo. in the first place? After months and thousands of dollars wasted on chemotherapy, I must bow to the NIH/hospitals for absorbing the cost of a b12 shot. These are stand up guys now, I would like to buy them a beer. (If I wasn't in so much debt, that is)
I know this must be hard but think long term: the pharmaceutical company that cures cancer makes a quick buck one time, now with no more cancer how will they make money on cancer ever again? Simple THEY WON"T. Now replicate that for every disease, now the company is out of business! My little brother can grasp this...
Originally posted by arpanet
Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but being dead doesn't confer sainthood. Stalin is dead, too, and I personally spit on his grave a week ago at Red Square.
This isn't bad news, your comparing a medical doctor to Stalin; I can completely see the resemblance.
Back to the topic of this thread: I await the update from the people who have purchased these machines, I hope it does work!
Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
Unfortunately, whichever logic classes you took did not teach you properly. I am not claiming that x=b without c. I am claiming that x CANNOT equal a without c. When you have no c, x will never equal a to an acceptable measure. That doesn't mean x=b, it means x = not a. There's a difference between b and "not a". I would hope you had learned inductive logic alongside ded...