A real CURE for AIDS, Hepititis, Cancer, Herpes etc, for less than the price of a night out!

reply to post by shasta9600


I'm not here to comment on whether this works or not but rather on the 'why would he dedictae his life's work' question. I know someone personally who has dedicated his life to an alternative therapy discipline. He has utterly convionced himself that it works and is the ultimate cure-all. His heart is in the right place. He desperately wants to believe he is right. So much that he refuses to look at data objectively. Any information that works against his protocol are attributed to the AMA's desire to squash the technology. He simply will not consider any alternate point-of-view.

I have a delightful, small wooden box that sits on my desk. It's a device from the early 1900s. An electrical deviced intended to cure disease by electrification. Go to eBay and search for Renulife Violet Wand. Another electrical cure all form the early 1900s.

There have been hundreds, probably thousands of people over the years that have dedictaed their life's work to chasing a 'medical breakthrough' that did not exist. This is why it is so critically important to collect real data under proper conditions and analyze it correctly. Anecdotal information and heresay won't cut it. There are people who will discontinue proven therapies for something like this in a desperate attempt to save themselves or a loved one. It is unethical to allow that to happen.

Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
reply to post by superluminal11

 

Then why don't areas outside the reach of Pharma (Latin America, eastern Europe, Africa, southeast Asia) use these "miracle cures"?

I live in South East Asia, I have travelled extensively throughout Latin America, Asia, Africa although not Eastern Europe and if you think the arm of big pharma does not reach these areas, you are sadly mistaken!

I am quite lucky as I have 2 Rife frequency generators (the best being the GB4000 model with amplifier) and a Clark Zapper and I can assure you they have helped me tremendously through many health problems. I just wish I had got into alternative trestments before my brother was diagnosed with cancer and died shortly thereafter.

In my opinion the doctors did more damage than good, caused him severe pain when using laser and radiation treatments over xmas (giving him up to 3 times the usual treatment in one session) as they were having days off over the holidays which completely burnt his neck and destroyed his voicebox which was shortly after removed. If we had known about alternative treatments at least my brother would have had some quality of life, even if the treatment was not successful.

Unfortunately, my brother could not eat, so Apricot Kernels were out, the only thing that was given to my brother to sustain him was a yoghurt administered through a syringe through the tube stuck through his nose. I later found out that the yoghurt was full of sugar and learned that cancer thrives on sugar.

Obviously, at the time my brother was diagnosed and my mother told he was terminal, I started researching cancer treatments and bought my first Rife Machine, which i then flew back to London to try and help my brother, unfortunately the doctors laughed at the suggestion of usage to help my brother and pointed out that should he use it of his own accord it would then make his insurance null and void! What chance do you have when that is the system???

I advise anyone I come into contact with who is suffering or has relatives suffering from cancer to look into alternative treatments as much as possible!

If Rife and Clark were such hogwash, why did the establishment go after them, ruin their businesses and jail them??? Especially after Rife cured 20 terminally ill cancer patients under the auspicies of the University of Southern California?

My 68 year old mother has recently been diagnosed with an auto immune blood problem which causes lumps full of puss to develop on her arms and breast area therefore, I have just ordered the mini zap from germany which i believe is the most suitable device to help her. i also ordered one for a friend in the UK who has been diagnosed with HIV with MMS however, everyone is advising her to stay on the poison medicines and not listen. hopefully she will come round as a cure (if possible) is better than just keeping it at bay for life. As I advise her, its definately worth a try and what has she got to lose for 6 weeks of her life???





[edit on 21-6-2010 by Hongkongphooey]

Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa

Originally posted by RogerT
reply to post by Tifozi

 

I think you very clearly proved my point, so much appreciated.

The conversation was about why this device isn't widespread in developing countries. The financial reason is one very good reason, the lack of technical knowledge is another. Both are probably more valid than my presumption, however, mine was aimed at a certain portion of developing country's population.

And you are partially correct, I didn't work in the rural areas, I lived and worked amongst the very people I was referring to (although not in a 5 star hotel - I wish). The kind of people who would conceivably have the means or the technical know-how to take Beck's device on board.

Thanks again for helping me out.

That explains why a tiny portion of the world doesn't use it. Now explain Russia, Estonia, Latvia, Lituania, Kazahkstan, Uzbekistan, China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, and Vietnam, to name a few from one portion of the world.

I can tell you from personal experience that i know people in China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam that own or have access to not only beck devices but rife and clark devices too and are benefitting greatly from them.

I also know practioners in Spain, Germany, Australia and the UK that help people with similar or exact same devices.

In China, alternative health is 'western medicine' as they understand the body and its weaknesses much better, through traditional treatments that actually work. I was involved in setting up a combination 'western' and traditional chinese medical clinics throughout southern China and I can tell you that big pharma is in a big push to influence society!

Originally posted by cams

Big deal! Anyone can get a patent, some may say.Not so. There are certain criteria that apply before issuing at patent such as whether the product serves a "useful" purpose...US Patents are legal documents that hold up in a court of law and can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars in R&D, application fees and processes before a patent is approved. So why would anyone bother spending so much time and effort to patent something if it does not work?!

You can also get one without a big investment. Sure, they CAN cost a lot. A car can cost a million bucks, if you buy some super-exotic. Or a couple thousand for a used Yugo at Big Al's Used Car Emporium.

We've fired off some patents on the possibility that the research was going to pay off, and it didn't. Sometimes we should have patented first and researched second, and didn't, and got beaten to the punch. Pre-emptive filings are not that uncommon. Sometimes we also do a provisional filing to establish that it's going to be gagged and get that out of the way up front.

There are lots of patents out there that just can't work. A number of them are related to "free energy" but it's not limited to that. Other times you run into patents that are amazingly bogus, and I can't figure out why someone tried filing it, except maybe their managers didn't understand and made some engineer file it. I've seen a lot like that from Hitachi and TI. I've never seen them enforced, but I can't help but wonder why they did it, or why the patent examiner allowed it. Mainly, most patent examiners are not particularly good at technology, and there is a huge collection of active patents, and it's really tough for them to figure out what patents constitute a novel useful invention and which are common to the art. I'm pretty sure others are on the take.

As an example, we filed one back when we first incorporated, and got a set of existing patents back from the examiner that we had to refute. One was a Hitachi patent which claimed to invent a device for synchronizing a data signal from one clock domain to another. It was a pair of back-to-back D flip-flops, which was probably designed in 1960 - I've certainly been using that since I was a teenager. There was a TI patent in the collection that attempted to patent DMA, but only in combination with memory, since DMA wasn't patentable any longer. Only DMA ONLY works with memory. It's obvious to someone skilled in the art, every DMA circuit ever done worked with memory, that's what it's for. So the "obvious" bar should have prevented it, and the examiner allowed it anyway.

Don't go by patents as an indication of either functionality or originality. Seriously.

Compare his work to this patent.....

"Method of curing AIDS with tetrasilver tetroxide molecular crystal devices
granted October 14, 1997
(basically an injectible substance using silver ions and getting electrons to fire in order to electricute and "cure" AIDS.)

It looks like they got the marketing department to help with the wording, dunnit? The scientific description doesn't exactly match the lurid electrocution part of the pitch. Basically they're sticking a silver ion to the virus, causing viral envelope damage.

Note the AIDS patent uses tetra-silver and electrification of the blood as per Dr Beck.

Not at all.

Patent for Magnetic pulsing
Electro-magnetic pulsing (for lymph nodes) United States Patent 4665898 Malignancy Therapy

You'd better hope that it doesn't require field intensities as described in this patent, because you're not getting within several orders of magnitude of the goal with a SOTA pulser. This patent describes a flux density of 1 to 100 Teslas, which at the top is maybe 50x what you get in an MRI machine. Also you could sort of figure it would be something along those lines given that it's Maxwell Labs, they do metal deformation with massive discharge into inductors.

Like the other patent, vaguely similar in wording but not really applicable to the thing you're trying to relate it to.

[edit on 21-6-2010 by Bedlam]

[edit on 21-6-2010 by Bedlam]

I've been thinking about my last contributions to the thread and feel I definitely posted far too hastily and didn't think things through sufficiently, so I'd like to make some ammendments and ammends

This will be one of my last posts for a week or two, as I am going on retreat tomorrow morning and will be intentionally away from the internet.

The point was raised that if this worked, then developing countries especially where big pharma's control is supposedly less pervasive, should show plenty of evidence of successful zapping. (edit to add - thank you hongkongphooey for shedding light on that myth )

I made a very silly comment about the less educated an individual, the more chance they would idolize the medical professional and therefore do what the doctor says, ie. allopathy. In retrospect, this comment was based on several very specific events that I experienced whilst establishing a natural health company in Bangladesh about a decade ago (don't laugh )

I'd like to retract that statement, as it is obviously a selective perception from one individual's very limited experience.

I do think the question about popularity indicating validity is a very valid question, but I also find it one of the most exasperating conundrums in the field of alternative health - "If it worked, everyone would be doing it", is probably the most common objection I have heard in my 25 years of natural healing activity.

The answer to why everyone doesn't know about 'it', even though 'it' DOES work, is not so black and white, very controversial, and quite frankly, it's a bit of a straw man to this thread, IMO.

edit to remove superflous comment.

Again, these are my personal opinions, and I have no intention to defend or debate them thus drawing the thread further off track.

Unfortunately, I did allow my frustration to not only side-track the thread for a couple of pages with what I now consider a straw man argument, but I also lost my rag and condescended one or two ATS members.

I do apologize with sincerity on both counts.

My retreat will also mean a temporary halt to my use of the Beck protocol, (I am 2 weeks into the recommended 6 weeks), but I will recommence immediately upon my return.

Mum will keep at it for the complete 6 weeks. Her sigmoidoscopy falls towards the end of this period in about week 5.

[edit on 21/6/10 by RogerT]

[edit on 21/6/10 by RogerT]

One of the first threads in some time (there have been a few) which actually kept me completely engrossed. Star and Flag for that.

Really great job RogerT, thanks for bringing this to light.

have heard of the positive effects of cannabis and other plants, but this was really enlightening.

am sure this is gonna help someone somewhere as pretty sure modern day medicine has helped lesser people than desired.

a comment on why lesser developed countries do not adopt this, simply bcos as a civilization, we humans tend to adopt what a "more civilized" country has already undertaken.

most of the world has taken the USA, Britain and some other "powerful" nations to be at the fore front of everything and conveniently adopted them.

there are other treatments (read herbal and related) that most lesser developed countries and its populace follow more than this electro-treatment or the money-eating-drug-treatment.

they just dont know very well about these techniques & am sure sooner than later it will be one of the "lesser developed" countries that will really ignore the "powers" and go on their own way.

thank you very much for this informative, educative & clearly important thread



[edit on 21-6-2010 by letmeDANz]

Originally posted by Hongkongphooey

My 68 year old mother has recently been diagnosed with an auto immune blood problem which causes lumps full of puss to develop on her arms and breast area therefore, I have just ordered the mini zap from germany which i believe is the most suitable device to help her. i also ordered one for a friend in the UK who has been diagnosed with HIV with MMS however, everyone is advising her to stay on the poison medicines and not listen. hopefully she will come round as a cure (if possible) is better than just keeping it at bay for life. As I advise her, its definately worth a try and what has she got to lose for 6 weeks of her life???
[edit on 21-6-2010 by Hongkongphooey]

Good luck with your mum?
I lost the first round to the allopaths and the rest of the family when they decided to cut burn and poison her.
Now it's back, of course, and this time I had the threat of a colostomy on my side. I think that scared mum more than dying, so she decided to quit trusting in what didn't work and try something with a rather better track record.

Last time, she looked like crap and never fully recovered her sparkle. This time, she looks better every day and the sparkle is back. She is 75.

[edit on 21/6/10 by RogerT]

This thread is becoming redundant to say the least. Basically the skeptics are concerned with two main points: 1) lack of data confirming said claims 2) lack of worldwide interest in the technology.

This is very simple, either there exists substantial data or there doesn't. Now the confusion of what is "substantial data" comes into play. So let me give everyone an example: If I were to start a thread stating that Ozone therapy cures patients of HIV-1, I would list a number of places performing this therapy. Then when a doctor comes along and asks for "the data" I would provide something in respects to a medical journal like such: bloodjournal.hematologylibrary.org... Inactivation+of+HIV+type+1+by+Ozone+in+vitro&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT
With data the interest will follow, and without data skepticism will follow...

Genuine question: can you explain the difference between the in-vitro study you posted regarding oxygen and the in-vitro study done by Kaali and Lyman on blood electrification. (I mean in terms of the context of your post)

Here's one link, I scanned it as I am desperately short of time, but it looks like the study is at the bottom, patent and description at the top. Double blind study is mentioned in the summary

www.rexresearch.com...

edit to remove unnecessary quote

[edit on 21/6/10 by RogerT]

Well a couple things stick out:
1) this hasn't been peer reviewed or published in any medical journal (which does NOT make the research invalid, just simply stating)

2) the link has nothing to do with the beck machine that can be so easily built. The patents are for a device that looks to be surgically implanted, and the experiments were not done with the beck device either.

The device in the link looks more substantial than what is being discussed in this thread, I haven't had a chance to review the entire story yet so this is just a first glance review...

reply to post by RogerT


The difference is that the HIV/ozone in vitro data was published in a peer reviewed journal.

Kaali & Lyman was a patent.

Member VneZonyDostupa wants any data available to be in a peer reviewed journal, or else be seen of dubious nature.

Originally posted by arpanet
Well a couple things stick out:
1) this hasn't been peer reviewed or published in any medical journal (which does NOT make the research invalid, just simply stating)

2) the link has nothing to do with the beck machine that can be so easily built. The patents are for a device that looks to be surgically implanted, and the experiments were not done with the beck device either.

The device in the link looks more substantial than what is being discussed in this thread, I haven't had a chance to review the entire story yet so this is just a first glance review...

Yep, but your post referenced ozone therapy practiced in clinics (presumably in vivo) and quoted an in-vitro study.
Electro therapy is used in-vivo by Beck Protocol and others, and the study is in-vitro

I just thought they were pretty similar.
As for the peer review journal, well that's a topic for a different thread and I would imagine has been done to death on ATS

I know it's hearsay and nothing to do with the actual science, but I thought this quote from Ken Adachi at that link was quite interesting:

Most knowledgeable observers feel that Kaali and Lyman's discovery was intentionally suppressed following the March '91 AIDS conference presentation. If AIDS research was on the level and not the sham that it actually is, this should have made front page news around the world.

(Around 1999, I was contacted by a woman with AIDS who had managed to reach Dr. William Lyman over the phone. She asked him about his experiments with Kaali regarding blood electrification and if she could obtain the treatment through them. Lyman denied any knowledge of any AIDS treatment or cure. He said he never heard of Dr. Kaali and he had no idea what she was talking about concerning blood electrification and then hung up on her.)

Originally posted by gatewaywithin

My bad bedlam,sorry for being so vague. What I was alluding to was just as electrical currents alter the physiology of cells I believe radiowaves and audiowaves can as well. Furthermore that the physiological change/effects of the cells brought about by the influence of these currents and waves can be accurately measured by pinpointing their frequency at the time a cellular changes take place.

I'd be more likely to believe it if there was some demonstrable mechanism. For example, you can use RF to heat tumors, that makes sense. You can shatter viral capsids with "sound", if you can call a 60GHz compression wave sound, because the wavelength of the hypersonic wave is about the size of the capsid.

But low voltage audio? Why would the cell care? And why care about a particular audio frequency? It's certainly not resonating either mechanically nor electrically. That's what I'm saying. I don't see a way for it to happen, and I don't see double blinded tests that SHOW it's happening, so I tend to doubt it's anything but snake oil.

Simply running a current through it at least might make some sense, so I gave Beck a try, but Clark or Rife trying to claim "resonance" where none exists is sort of untrustworthy.

Originally posted by gatewaywithin
For anyone interested here are some links regarding the effects electrical currents have on cells.
Biocompatible Electric Current Attentuates HIV Infectivity

educate-yourself.org...

Adachi's site is just butt-awful in terms of being very much 'woo' and very little science. If he says it's good, I tend to avoid it.

Effects of small amounts of electric current at a cellular level

www.patchmct.com...

Although this is old, and the researchers are correctly being schooled by a EE at the end for being ambiguous and/or incorrect with their terminology and concepts, it's not a big surprise to find that applying DC voltages tends to change wound healing. I think Frey was getting rats to grow extra legs at one point - it affects the behavior of stem cells, maybe not in a good way every time. You're interfering with an internal signaling system with a blunt instrument.

SKIN EFFECT AND
BIO-ELECTRICAL IMPEDANCE ANALYSIS

rifevideos.com...

Rife gets mostly everything wrong, and IMHO he's a fraud.

The influence of electrical current on bone regeneration
Electrical Stimulation for Faster Bone Healing

Again, your body uses small current flows in some systems, bone is a primary one, to signal flexure and or microcracks - bone is piezoelectric, and where it's flexing most, it generates the most potential, although that potential is small. Thus your osteocytes know where to gather to build new bone at breaks and areas of heavy load, also where muscles insert, due to myoelectric potential. This actually makes sense, has a demonstrated mechanism, and can be proven in a scientific sense.

It doesn't have much to do with Rife, Clark, or Beck, though, and again, how sure are you that you would want to interfere with a repair mechanism that uses this to detect microfractures, except when you really need it i.e. under the care of an orthopedic doctor? Are you sure you are sending reasonable signals by bolting on a Beck unit? Clark doesn't really apply jack, so that's not going to do anything at all, and a Rife machine uses RF which probably won't be acted on by something as slow as bone cells, but also won't cause "resonance" either acoustically nor electrically.

reply to post by RogerT


To me this story is a familiar story ..... have severe Hep. C [a nasty genotype too ] since early 80S

About 10 yrs ago a close friend, kinda 'nutty' professor=type , made me a 'zapper' and a few months later he sent me a home-made device to make 'silver water' (colloidal silverwater).

Have used it on and off ... sometimes so obsessed that I applied the zapper too long and got light burn marks on my skin. I stopped using it when the battery needed to be replaced .....

Making the silverwater myself without having 'proof' it worked got boring too after a few times, so I stopped making it and drinking it.

Nearly 3 years ago I did a therapy in hospital for my Hep.C but had to stop coz them viruscells grew back after 3 months .... now am doing a 2nd therapy and have been so ill over the last few months that I'm considering to quit the therapy since there is NO garantee I will be cured next year.

My immune-system that already has been lower then of regular healthy people, is so low at the moment that I can hardly do anything else then sit in bed, on the couch or if I'm lucky sit in the sun for not even an hour.

Zapper and Silverwater making device are somewhere in a cupboard .... maybe it's time to dig them up again. NOT because I hope it will 'cure' me but for sure it will be more gentile to my body-energy system then the chemo sh*ts I'm taking now ......

Whatever you do: DO NOT BUY zappers or silverwater via web or shops, that's to make money not to help you. Make them yourself or find someone who will (help to) build such a device for you.

Namaste!

Originally posted by gatewaywithin
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Here you go my BEDLAM my friend.Who says radio waves,sound waves or electrical current cannot alter the human condition.

The effects of radio waves on living organisms.

You note how they only quote 1950's research and don't even spell Beck's name correctly?

At any rate, let's look at that Euglena study of Dr Teixeira-Pinto. Do you understand why that happened? You won't find it on eHow, sad to say, you'll have to go to a scholarly source, and actually understand the science. If you can't ferret it out, let me know.

The effects of audio or sound waves on humans.

That one's just an explanation of why you find certain sounds discordant. It sort of falls short of explaining how a weak AC field at an audio frequency with maybe a 1000km wavelength has any effect on a cell, supposedly "resonating" with it, which is a joke.

Here is one where they are treating prostate cancer with sound waves.

And in that one, they're emulsifying prostate tumors with focused high intensity ultrasound, causing cavitation and heat related damage as well as shaking the cell membranes to pieces. But that's again got jack to do with any Beck, Rife or Clark gadgetry. It's along the line of digging up yet another RF ablation tool, Bovie cutter or cancer diathermy machine and trying to say they "prove" it works, when they're not at all related.

Denying ignorance one skeptic at a time. I love this place already

Helping others surpass ignorance, one bad comparison link at a time. You see me more in the science links - I've got masters in EE and physics, not so much biology past what we had to take. Still, I did have at least bio, zoology, and microbiology with the lab - I do a mean Gram stain, and I'm the king of streak plates.

Originally posted by hearttissue
Hey Everyone,

I do own such a thing. It works. It kills various viruses, parasites - also gets you off flus and stuff. It's "magic". ;=)

Actually, it's the same principle as the "energy-healer". Think about it. These zappers work with very low voltage - a human is in fact "a battery" - alone the neurons in our body produce such an incredible voltage when they fire - it's much more than you would think it is. And then you have the huge electromagnetic field around the body and stuff... this is, how it works.

Well, no. Your nerve cells produce a very small field caused by an electrochemical dipole forming across the cell membrane. However, when they fire, they don't actually cause a longitudinal current to flow down the neuron - it's more like people doing the wave in a football stadium. The only place a literal current flows in a neuron is between nodes of Ranvier. You have a tiny tiny EM field around your body due to the polarization and depolarization of myocytes and neurons but it's incredibly tiny. It's a by-product of another process rather than a primary function.

And it cures "anything".

How is it with tuberculosis?

Energy-medicine is the future. And it has just NOTHING to do with esoteric kind a things... it's simply acknowledging the reality outside the "money dictates what works and what doesn't" and "you better feel dependent on outhers" and "the universe is hostile - forget about love" paradigm. But it is in fact just the universe, doing that. It's pure bio-physics.

This is one of those places where you're using "energy" in the woo sense and trying to syncretize it with "energy" in a physics sense, but although the words seem alike, they're not.

Originally posted by justletmeinI purchased a machine from sota to make colidial silver it also doubled up as a zapper which I never used having read this article I have just done my first session with the zapper ....

Not an unreasonable thing to try. Like I said upthread, I got one and tried it for a mycoplasma infection. It didn't do much for me, but maybe it'll help you. I wouldn't quit my meds either, especially as you're stable on them.

Originally posted by arpanet
This thread is becoming redundant to say the least. Basically the skeptics are concerned with two main points: 1) lack of data confirming said claims 2) lack of worldwide interest in the technology.

Here's my final post for now ...

I do hope you are wrong arpanet about the thread being redundant. It's only a couple of days old and members are still enjoying their first visit to the topic.

I would hope that the thread will live for at least another 6 weeks, until all those who've ordered their Beck devices have completed a trial and reported back on how it went.

I'll certainly be sure to post my own experience once I'm done - as one of your ATS peers, I'll offer my own review for anyone who's interested

[see Doctor, that's what I was referring to: ATS peer review - ah well, sigh]

ciao for now.
RT

Originally posted by RogerT

Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa

2. Even if you heard about it, you'd just dismiss it as worthless anecdotal evidence, just like you have dismissed the many valuable peer reviews given to you freely and openly here on this very thread.

You have given me ZERO peer-reviewed papers. All you have provided to date is a set of interviews and papers which refer to themselves (and previous iterations of the same data) as sources. Please get your story straight.

I'm referring to your ATS peers

RogerT. I applaud your patience and energy in dealing with this hostile closed mind that you are debating.

I had a debate with her in a thread entitled: Hospital bills for imaginary services, did it happen to you?. In this debate she was absolutely sure that the medical industry could do no wrong even when it was proven that she really didn't know what she was talking about in regards to the billing process that I had endured. Her final post was so filled with spiteful venom which ended with a accusation that I was nothing more than a Snake Oil Salesman (which was humorous since I wasn't selling anything) that I just let her have her last word as I refused to carry on in such a insidious mud slinging fest which could not have served any more constructive results.

Her MO is always the same, which is to demand evidence and then promptly ignore it on the one hand and keep demanding it on the other. It is very easy to see through this charade once she has employed it enough times. She also knows that the establishment that she demands do the peer review work will in no way jeopardize its own economical/political bureaucracy as I refuse to believe that anyone could be that dense.

I and many others here can clearly see the evidence that you have provided as well as the blog results that she refuses to comment about yet coyly pretends as if you haven't made genuine attempts in those regards.

I can also assure you that people in Russia have the exact religious fervor over doctors as you have claimed, as my wife is Russian too and a nurse to boot. When we first got married and had a discussion about western medicine she said that in her country as well as mine people are of the mistaken opinion that doctors are God. So in this respect I can back you up 100% over this noise box that keeps screaming at you.

I applaud your efforts to bring this innovative therapy forth to this community and will be doing my own OPEN MINDED research in it as well.

Thank you once again for this thread.








[edit on 21-6-2010 by warequalsmurder]