I am sorry to report well is crippled down hole very long read

I must admit you have done well on this thread. I wonder what the options will be now the sea floor is ready to cave in. Ok JBL, what do u think of the Russians idea of nuking the seabed? They do it all the time. And it works.

Great post! Thank you for the time and effort you have put into it!
Finally some of the info and disinfo is starting to become more clear to me.
I have been reading and reading as many posts as I can about this terrible disaster and what it means to all of us!
The stage has been set and now we watch!

reply to post by jeffrybinladen


I just wanted to say thank you and well done! What a terrificly sane (and terrifying) post, but one which is much in line with my own views on the situation.

As you say, with such secrecy we are ultimately left guessing - for now - but time WILL tell, yet if this is true there will be NO way that anybody could hope to hide the scale of such an escalation to the event as, unfortunately, containment of such an escalation within the Gulf seems unlikely to me (given the inevitable actions of Hurricanes and the major sea currents that will drag these toxins and the other ills likely to be created in these waters out into the Gulf Stream and across the North Atlantic - quite probably).

Make the most of your favourite Atlantic sea food, you probably won't chance industrially caught stocks for a time once this stuff gets out there....

Lets hope the world gets the chance to abandon or at least massively regulate future deep sea/sub-ice oil extraction or other such high risk methods - who wants oil at the expense of dead oceans?

reply to post by jeffrybinladen


I heard almost the exact same scenario from a geologist friend of mine.


How big of a collapse are we talking here?

Ummm,I would suspect that the petroleum is spewing out of the well from the pressure of the water,mushy seafloor and rock formations pressing down against it.

I wouldn't think that there would be a rapid collapse unless it occurred around the deposit's periphery,it would have a lot to do with the shape of the deposit.

If it were to collapse,it would cause a slump like the one which caused the tsunami a few years ago around christmas,which killed so many.

Some of the videos I have seen appear to show the sea floor beginning to slump around where the well comes up,if the well were to go completely,the pressure from the rushing oil would quickly eat a much bigger hole into the structure,and if it is a cavern like deposit,cause what amounts to a sinkhole.

The sea water would drop into it and cause a disturbance,which would result in a big wave running in all directions,like a pebble into a birdbath or calm water.

Hope this doesn't happen......

Earth will kill us before we could possibly kill it,and with as little regard as we have for our origins,I would have to say we almost deserve what we get.

I hope you are wrong.

[edit on 13-6-2010 by chiponbothshoulders]

Thanks for a very easy to understand write up. I sure hope it doesn't get as bad as it seems it will.

SECONDARY WELL CASING LINER

I have several generations of plumbers in my family... let me lend some insight:

A traditional US domestic water well is cased using 1/4 thick 6" steel pipe. The original 6" steel casing typically extends about 100' deep and into the bedrock; from that level and further down, a water well is usually uncased and has 6" round bedrock walls.

If you improperly weld together the 20' sections of well casing, or if you should accidentally nudge the well head with farm equipment or bump it with your F350 4x4, or if you experience an earthquake, you might crack the casing. When this happens... you can dump bleach into your well once a week, but you'll never get the microbes (e coli, coliform, et al.) out because "surface" ground water will be able to leach into your well through the cracked steel casing. You'll also be getting sand/clay infiltration which will ultimately fill in your well.

This is what you do when you have a cracked steel casing:

You first remove your submersible water pump, then lower into the 6" casing an inner liner of 4" pipe (typically PVC; though if budget allows, schedule 40 steel) that extends deeper than the crack in the original casing, or simply further than the original 6" casing. The bottom of the 4" pipe has a flange that partially seals between the 4" pipe and the 6" pipe. (If it is difficult to get the liner down into the original casing because of deformities to the pipe a "electro-mechanical swage" can internally straighten the original casing) Then, in the doughnut shaped area between the 4" liner and the 6" casing, from top to bottom, "grout" is pumped in to form a permanent seal. Your well is now lined with 4" pipe to a depth of, say, 120' and then from that point down it has 6" diameter walls of bedrock. Your pump can then be lowered back into the hole, you can bleach the well, and now your water is kosher again! A competent well company can usually accomplish this task for under $1200; much cheaper than boring a new well ($6000+).

So I ask...

If we have a ruptured casing, why can we not shove a new liner down the hole, grout in between, and effectively re-line an oil well casing?

I am,

Sri Oracle

[edit on 13-6-2010 by Sri Oracle]

reply to post by curioustype

Oil won't be an issue if the oceans are dead,we won't be too worried at all.

Most,if not all of us will be either dead,or too uncomfortable to worry about oil.

Man does nothing but upset the natural balance of nature.

If nature is disrupted too much,we will know our origins and demise are intertwined.

Just thinking through what you mentioned about the potential size of th ewell deposit(s) at risk of ejecting themselves out into the GUlf in your worst-case scenario(s)...

What will that do to the markets, and strategic policies of the USA and rest of the world? Given the recent debates/analysis of 'Peak Oil' and extending into the M.E. and so on....

I heard these Gulf deposits were reckoned to be on a par with the bigger Arabian deposits, if they get written off (either through being emptied, becoming nonviable economically/politically, or due to lessons learnt about the incompatibility of drilling/extraction in their unique geological/sub-sea environment (technical reasons) such as the problems with the rocks/salt/pressures...

And of course, all that being worked out simultaneously with the more immediate problems/ramifications of the actual event on land and sea - especially in the USA...this would have escalating global implications too.

reply to post by stevcolx



The Russians have never nuked an oil well only runaway gas wells if i remember correctly and they were on the surface not 5000ft below sea level. What BP should have done is started a relief well with that specific purpose in mind. The goal would be to essentially wedge/collapse the MW shut. Dropping a nuke straight on top of the well would be a failure imho. Because this wasn't done we can only wait for the relief wells. Keep in mind you need a specially designed delivery system because of the enormous pressure at- 5000 feet+ the -14,000 drill hole and I seriously doubt the USA or anyone has a weapon like that in their arsenal.

I think this early morning activity going on now is a dry run for using tension cables in order to secure the BOP. What BP will do is test this on the surface with a Cameron BOP and go over the best locations to attach them. The only problem is again you're -5000ft below sea level so this takes time and practice. plus you have to sink foothold plates (remember the 1st layer of the sea bed is comprised of mostly silt and mud) and i'm not really sure how they plan on pulling this one off.

As dougr pointed out in the article it's a race against a runaway well and the odds favor the well, but BP could get lucky and hopefully that's the case for every human being on the planet.

Originally posted by Sri Oracle
SECONDARY WELL CASING LINER

So I ask...

If we have a ruptured casing, why can we not shove a new liner down the hole, grout in between, and effectively re-line an oil well casing?



[edit on 13-6-2010 by Sri Oracle]

The amount of pressure is simply too high and if the BOP pops, falls over and the MW hole is exposed you're looking at 150,000-200,000bpd. Remember BP drilled into a huge gas reservoir and the only thing keeping it somewhat in check is the crippled BOP. Nothing on this planet would be capable of re-lining that casing.








[edit on 13-6-2010 by jeffrybinladen]

reply to post by Sri Oracle


I'm no expert, but I think that if there are problem with that it may involve the IMMENSE forces and pressures being exerted by the oil deposit/geyser pushing up/out, the failings and inaccessibility/design/damage of the well casing/end and 1,000feet deep 'disc' mentioned elsewhere, and possibly the effects described in this post of erosion on the rock around the well...plus the challenges faced in getting powerful enough tools and machinery that can deliver/work effectively at those extreme depths/currents/temperatures at the sea-bed?

reply to post by stevcolx
I believe the Russians use small nukes on their ABOVE ground deeps wells...no one has attempted to use a nuke to kill a well in the ocean floor...so no one knows what would happen...since i have heard mention of many theories on what is happening down there...i don't believe a nuke is going to be a wise choice...but then again, we may not have a choice...God save us all...then again, maybe we don't deserve it

reply to post by jeffrybinladen


Great Post! JFB I am intrigued. I wanted to verify your quote not being available anywhere on the Net and found that this exact thread was posted on another forum verbatim. The guy who posted it didn't write it and was called out on it. Did you post this on another forum/fora? EDITED TO ADD: Never mind I saw your comment after the OP. My apologies.





[edit on 13/6/10 by Lebowski achiever]

reply to post by jeffrybinladen


Well yes and no. As per this news report:

Recent news reports quoted Russian scientists suggesting that an underwater nuclear blast could be used effectively to seal off BP's Deepwater Horizon well.

www.npr.org...

As least then if they accepted the Russian's help they'd have another option. That's better than having none, don't u think?

Like this report:

www.livescience.com... %28LiveScience.com+Science+Headline+Feed%29

If I were BP I'd take a serious look at this proposal. And soon!!

Thank you for a most excellent explanation of this mess......
I have been running similar scenarios through my mind for sometime but lacked the specifics to hang my thoughts on.....bully for you for nailing this so succinctly.
Now, i think it is perhaps time we start to run the numbers backwards and look at how the toital quantity of the reserve will affect the oceans....
As this seems the way things are headed....
How much oil would it take to give the ocean a "top kill"?
How much oil lies suspended between the surface and the Bottom(as in the columns of oil dirfting around out there?)now?
What about the vast quantity of gaseous material?
Will the natural gas mix with the sea water?
or will it escape in sufficient quantities to explode in the air?
(i envision huge fiery explosions where the quantity is sufficient to ignite in air from lightning or other causes....)
Could the natural gas be burned off in one fiery column as it escapes?
What about the other toxic effects of the mixed pollutants?
What would the effect be of such quantities of oil as leak out between now and the hopeful success of a relief well?
What are the potential problems that amount can cause?
It apears to me that the situation is deadly serious no matter when its capped if it ever can be....
Is anybody doing the math on the possible outcomes?
If so what are we looking at downline?
besides the whole worlds untimely demise?

this post is from a guy named 'dougr' on a different site, 'the oil drum'

not sure if the OP is going to be able to answer any specific questions

thanks for posting it here though, nonetheless

Originally posted by Lebowski achiever
reply to post by jeffrybinladen

 

Great Post! JFB I am intrigued. I wanted to verify your quote not being available anywhere on the Net and found that this exact thread was posted on another forum verbatim. The guy who posted it didn't write it and was called out on it. Did you post this on another forum/fora? EDITED TO ADD: Never mind I saw your comment after the OP. My apologies.


[edit on 13/6/10 by Lebowski achiever]

I also found this essay on another forum, and I am pretty certain that the person who posted it on that forum is the original author of this piece.

reply to post by jeffrybinladen


Thanks jeffrybinladen for your efforts. I was a Bit-Hand for 6 years for Reed and everything you have stated is right on target........I wish I could say you are wrong.....

As you said the "best case scenario" is total devistation in the Gulf region much less the rest of the world........

[edit on 13-6-2010 by Cloudsinthesky]

reply to post by jeffrybinladen


I noticed this is dougr's work. Well thank you for posting the piece b/c it was very informative. I will admit that I often draw a blank when I hear jargon like bop or top kill.
I am so glad I came across this article.

Originally posted by Lebowski achiever
reply to post by jeffrybinladen

 

Great Post! JFB I am intrigued. I wanted to verify your quote not being available anywhere on the Net and found that this exact thread was posted on another forum verbatim. The guy who posted it didn't write it and was called out on it. Did you post this on another forum/fora? EDITED TO ADD: Never mind I saw your comment after the OP. My apologies.





[edit on 13/6/10 by Lebowski achiever]

No need to apologize as i said dougr takes credit for the work and he's been a member on the drum for 4+ years so i seriously doubt he plagiarized anyone's stuff im just the messenger. My expose and write-up which is a work in progress is about MMS "minerals management service" right now i'm sifting through loads of PDF documents and cross-correlating accident reports. The fact is in the last several years we've had several near miss events in the GOM. When that report is ready it's sure to be another interesting read.