Out of Place Artifacts and other things: Update and Review 2010!

I also wanted to bring up truely the high point in our ancient friend's designs: Rome

Rome truly is the climax of design in terms of pre-modernism. Of course, evidence suggest Chinese and Minoan peoples were doing modernist techniques long before even the beginning of Greek civilization, it is still true that Rome did magnificent things.

Indeed, one can call their entire empire, and its whole span, an enormous anomaly.

I'm sure you all know that the formula for cement was forgotten before its rediscovery in the 1900s. That is why so many people loved Roman design. To the post-Roman peoples of Europe, the Romans really did have some amazingly technology only answerable to some sort of "higher people" with simply more evolved views.

This is just to remind you. Sometimes it is just as simple as the fact we have forgotten what they did. Truly, Roman concrete was amazing crafting chemical

Just to try and grasp their glory, I will try toonly post recreations of it. No ruins to ruin the beauty.

Remember, all at least 1.5 thousand years old

Sewer system

It was also about this time in the mid-7th century BC that the Etruscan kings conquered Rome and ruled it for 150 years. They were the first to build in a monumental way on the Capitoline Hill, a small but steep prominence surrounded by the six other hills. It was at the northern end of the valley that would become the Forum Romanum. (Figure 3.009) Their reign spanned the 6th century. During this time, the Latin town, which was actually 3.007: Rome in the imperial era 3.008: archaic Rome 5 a conglomeration of small villages, was gradually transformed into a real city along Etruscan lines. It was under the new kings that, according to tradition, the first public works such as the walls of the Capitoline hill and the Cloaca Maxima were constructed. The Cloaca Maxima or Great Drain is a sewer that drains all the waste from the Forum Romanum into the Tiber.It is still functioning.

Also,







It wasn't until recently that we ever changed the traditional structure. Take a look. Over a thousand years old. Much different than a traditional street corner?



Mass elevating structures are well more amazing than massive pyramids.

Ponder it. How many structures in the modern era are this cool?







And the mighty Pantheon. Absolutely amazing. Up until the early 1900s, it was the largest dome in the world.



And of course, how different is this from our modern palaces and malls?




Finally, a star observatory ( I think.) It was a theater definably.




-Forums of Rome, Hadrian's villa, several other famous buildings, Pantheon. BTA1+2


As you can see. Rome was mighty and an apex of civilization.

When Rome fell, Earth would not see as mighty a civilization until the 1900s, when the US took the premiere world power stage in WW1. For example, medical skills were not as good as Rome until WW1.

To quote the Romans:

"A person should put aside some part of the day for the care of his body. He should always make sure that he gets enough exercise especially before a meal." Celsus.

THIS is amazing:

"When building a house or farm especial care should be taken to place it at the foot of a wooded hill where it is exposed to health-giving winds. Care should be taken where there are swamps in the neighbourhood, because certain tiny creatures which cannot be seen by the eyes breed there. These float through the air and enter the body by the mouth and nose and cause serious disease." Marcus Varro.

"We must take great care in searching for springs and, in selecting them, keeping in mind the health of the people." Vitruvius, a Roman architect.

Frontinus

"Compare such important engineering works carrying so much water with the idle pyramids and the useless though famous buildings of the Greeks."

"Water is brought into the city through aqueducts in such quantities that it is like a river flowing through the city. Almost every house has cisterns and water pipes and fountains." Strabo, a Greek geographer.

Surgery: The surgery of ancient Rome set an early example for surgery of modern times offering a model to improve upon. Roman surgery was very strict as to the position that the surgeon had to be in.

When in a sitting position, the surgeon's: knees were slightly separated and above the groin

elbows were never to pass the front of the knees or go behind the chest

two hands were to be used at all times

hands never were to be over the breast

forearms were to be kept at right angles to the arms

When standing all of the above were kept the same with the addition of both feet needing to stay level on the ground at all times.

Romans were amazing. bare in mind. Over a thousand years old


Even brain surgery. Absolutely great people. Here's a replication in HBO's Rome.

This scene from Rome, the recent ancient drama, depicts the medical procedure of trephination. A hole is cut in the bone to relieve pressure. Amazingly enough, many people survived this surgery, and was in common use up until the early 19th Century.

[edit on 13-6-2010 by Gorman91]

[edit on 13-6-2010 by Gorman91]

[edit on 13-6-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Gorman91


Even before Rome was even conceived, there was a civilization that had all hallmarks of a properly governed, well planned,systematic functionality - The Indus Valley Civilization
Take any settlement, it had proper water supply, drainage/sewage facilities, granaries, markets, common baths etc....

And...Ayurveda is , I think, the earliest known school of medicine in the world..

Ayurveda

Ancient Indian Surgery - Sushruta Samhita had all sorts of surgical procedures which was developed in other parts of the world hundreds and thousand years later...can you imagine - Plastic surgery practices were common in India in the ancient times.

You Might even want to look into ancient mathematics of India

Bhaskaracharya

Aryabhata

and about Physics in the Ancient Indian Sub continent

History of the Physical Sciences in India

Technological discoveries and applications in India

Have a Nice read!

reply to post by coredrill


I will read.

However, I'd say Rome was ahead of them in all except math.

A real shame really. If Rome had Indian mathematical systems, they would be far more ahead even more so.

reply to post by Gorman91


Please remember that Rtome wasn't even there when the medicine, maths and physics of ancient India was developed.

don't jump to hasty conclusions. read the pages at the links. you would be surprised.

reply to post by Gorman91


Great posting.

But, from what I can see, I would have to side with what coredrill is saying-as to it being developed (in some format prior to Romans).

Awesome info guys/folks/ladies etc.

reply to post by coredrill


Well I was only thinking in possibilities.

None the less, they were advanced. But they seem no more advanced than Egypt. Numbers were invented in India. I always remember that. And that alone gives ANY nation in the region a huge jump on everyone else. But I see them as pretty advanced, but not as advanced as Rome. Rome basically didn't have numbers that were complex enough to be useful. That's a horrible loss. But yet they managed. And to what I can see, were the most advanced in the time.


Not to be biased as an architect, but a nations constructions are what show its true advancement level. From a relativity perspective, the Indus valley civilization was more advanced for doing what it did in that time period. But from a actual perspective, Rome is more advanced for how much they did in the time span they had.

[edit on 13-6-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Gorman91

Numbers were invented in India

India and it's secrets have always intrigued me. Every since I heard about those UFO/Aliens battles over India that appartently are carved into a wall of history for them. (About the time of the Indian Jones movie that took place in India).

That is all I remember but I do believe India has some UFO/Ancient and/or unexplained events and artifacts. I would like to learn more about that/India is anyone has some info.

reply to post by anon72


Honestly I have my own conspiracies on that. The fact is that, statistically, aliens would not be as smart as man. This is because man himself in an anomaly when viewing all of Earth's creatures. Because there are and have been over a dozen intelligent species on Earth, but only one, mankind, has the ability to innovate, invent, create, and learn exponentially. Therefore, at least statistically, most intelligent aliens would be similar to our crow, elephant, and dolphin friends. They would advanced linearly and slowly. More stably, if you will. The only problem is that the vast differences to other societies they meet would, in some cases, lead to war. Now if you were an alien scientist like one of these and discovered a species like man, who, although primitive, was far more evolved then your own, why wouldn't you hybridize your own species with them and then use them as super soldiers in your wars? Indeed, it might even eventually lead to a dictatorship by these hybrids. Imagine that. Cavemen taking over a galactic nation. This would undoubtedly be like the Dorians taking over the Maceadonia. Advanced society would fail and a civilization backdrop would occur.

So thus, those fights india saw may have been nothing more than our ancient kidnapped soldiers fighting their way back to their homeland, and leaving the nation that kidnapped them in flames.


Oh what a travesty. A millions year old society that slowly advanced and built so carefully destroyed by their own experiment to advance their society.

This would explain 3 things.

-The fact that all aliens look humanoid even though scientifically none of them should.

-The fact that we are so seemingly cut off from what should be a life-filled universe. We are quarantined.

-The fact that we see these things in cultures like india, but do not have many items from that era then if they were that advanced.

i love things like this, good job, i can see youve done a lot of research, briliant work mate

reply to post by Gorman91



Wow, I just read your post. You blew my mind. I will need some time to digest this one.

To me, a very rational thought process for the whole Alien thing. Hmmm.

Thanks for all of your input.

reply to post by anon72


It was a theory I came up with some time ago based on several historic events. Mainly, so many religions and cultures talk about how we "fell". Even the bible has the Nephilim. Fallen angels who fell and bred with man. Why is this universal? Scientifically aliens should not be very smart. As if they were as smart and fast developing as us, they would be just as unstable as us. There would be wars seen everywhere. And at a galactic stage, a war is like a global thermo nuclear war many times over. Yet we see none of this. Because of the infinite nature of the universe, there should be infinite types of creatures. Therefore there will always be fighters and peace keepers. So the wars would not be everywhere. Just between the arms of the galaxy (these arms are the only obvious borders for the galaxy, equivalent of mountains and seas on a planet. So because we are not near the edge of an arm, and see no wars, they must therefore be internally peaceful. Any such species cannot be like man, for internal conflict is part of being man. They would, of course, want man's brain. But once hybridizing, they would condemn their own nation. So thus there must be a galactic dark age right now, or at least locally within our own arm. In addition, the fact that these aliens are ALWAYS portrayal with the same abilities and technologies shows that they advance slowly. After all, look at out own society. Exponentially advancing. Why would they flat line unless they simply cannot advance as fast as us?

Going on with this same theory, I even went on to think about what would be the dominate nation? I theorized that the age and vast knowledge of these slowly, stably advancing aliens, when met with the fast past unstable human hybrids, would bring about untold advancements. This would undoubtedly open up some peaceful branches of advancing hybrids amidst the now broken nation of their creators. These would open them up to all the universe.

So now we apply the next level. With the whole universe, only th every best species contacted will ultimately survive. What is the most advanced? It would have to be a spices with a single consciousness, so that decisions are instantaneous. They would have sacrificed all or most of their flesh over time for machine due to mechanical superiority. They would also be able to do insanely cool things, such as loop energy and mass through time (IE, generate energy, and then loop it back in time to the moment before the energy is used, thereby allowing the same energy to be used multiple times over at the same moment. Useful energy via a time paradox) Other insane things as well, such as being able to tell its past self of future attacks via a time messenger device, making it essentially immortal. Such awesome things would give them infinite energy and mass available. It would be a god. In time the hybrids would make contact and they would in turn start a war via the simple fact that the hybrids would want it and the singularity species would want more experience and genetic material to analyze and better itself. The only course of action would be to first disable this creatures temporal messenger device so it would not know the hybrid's next action. Then the hybrids would have to disable this creatures main processing planet. Essentially its brain. After that, it's micro robot entities that would invade would have to be destroyed via gluon , or antimatter bombs. Ultimately a scorched galaxy policy.



That's just a story I might write though.

Additionally, I thought up the only types of aliens that might exist:

Good genetic types that peacefully take the dna of species they like to make themselves better.

Bad above species that absorb and eliminate the species they like (a la Mass Effect's reapers. Ask me about this if you want to know more)

Good religious/cultural type that spread their way of life.

Bad above that force it.

Good unfathomable creature not able to be understood but understanding of this.

Bad above that hates those who do not understand it and destroy.

There cannot really be any other type of alien because of the fact that resources are not interesting when a resource-full galaxy is all around you and the desire for power is useless as it is impossible to rule infinity.

Just some more thing sot think about, if you would like to fit into place some sort of ancient alien and what type they might have been, Personally I believe that the most likely is a combination of the above bad religious/cultural and genetic type because a peaceful version of them. would have made contact already. the bad one has either been destroyed by the hybrids I mentioned, or simply not have found us yet. The idea that the whole world would become fearful if the good types arrives is folly, as they would be advanced enough to know how to stop such panicking. IE, influencing dreams, eliminating weapons, etc etc. If they truly were good, they would desperately feel saddened over our consumption of our own species and desperately try to stop it directly. The bad type would either laugh and watch, not care, or been destroyed already by us, or plotting this very moment.

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[edit on 16-6-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Gorman91


What if the advancements necessary to become a type one or two society can not be taken without losing our primitive way.

Imagine an alien contact along with the fear of a hedgehog you are saving its life, yet it is so terrified it will bite you and do what ever it takes to get away from you.

Really cool posts you placed here by the way. I will read them again later this day.

If I may ask... How old are you ? and what is your secret. ? Are you an archaeologist ?

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


I'm an architect in training. Won't be able to actually practice architecture for another 7 years. Thank New York State for that . I live with it. I don't have a secret. I just study history to learn the future. I love the patterns of history.

One interesting thing is how Rome was so advanced, and the whole world destroyed it out of anger and hatred and some jealousy. Then for the next 2000 years they tried to rebuild it, realizing what they destroyed.

It's not easy for many to accept, but realizing that we are only 200 years more advanced than Rome, and only 300 years more advanced than 1500 BC Minoan society, It sets off a fire in your soul. The need to make this life matter and not waste it. We've already wasted over 2000 years of human history doing nothing by sobbing over what we lost. I've sobbed. It's time to build and remake this world for mankind and make sure we don't make the same mistakes.

I am no archeologist. I just read a lot about lost peoples.

And as to how old I am, I am not. lol. I'm barely through a 5th of my life and it scares me sometimes. I am grateful for my knowledge. lol. I've only recently learned to use it.

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I was recently in Tiwanaku Bolivia. I was right in front of their Monoliths and they are amazing. You can feel the energy at the site. And can't help but wonder what in the world was going on there.

reply to post by Gorman91


Again, there's no need to invoke aliens. It only makes the situation more complex. Gods look like us not because they're alien but because they're from an advanced human culture (survivors of Atlantis? Some people who managed to retain some high-tech from the old civilization). I just can't grasp that Sitchin stuff of aliens coming here and growing hybrids. Any advanced space-faring species wouldn't need to. For that matter they probably wouldn't Bother with Earth's savages in the first place and leave us alone, much less play the God ticket. It would be akin to adults toying with ants for fun. Read up on Zacharia Sitchin's books--from what I've gathered, they're just plain Bad translations, glorified with space opera concepts to make them appealing to the Von Daniken crowd.

reply to post by coredrill


They look like man-made steps to me. Planes at 90 degrees, straight lines, etc.

Maybe it's just me.

Thank you for starting this thread, and I am fully convinced there were advanced human cultures all over the world 10-20,000 years ago including the North American continent. I just have a few questions - Does anyone know if it was possible that Noah's Ark might have been constructed with a keel (for river navigation) and could the impression of a keel still be visible in the earth after thousands of years? Also, could their language have been closer to ancient Hindu than Hebrew, and did they have a written language based more on symbols than letters? Last thing, could the site where the Ark landed have been used as a place of religious ceremony and reverence for thousands of years and perhaps even into the present day by Native tribes?

reply to post by CaptainLJB


Aliens wouldn't be able to come to Earth and make hybrids. You can't just press a button and mix java with C++. that's not how life works.

Nobody would survive off the Earth who was on the earth and then come back secretly. You would come back and ask for help.

God doesn't look like man unless he chooses to. It is the spirit of man that the image is there of God.

Originally posted by gypsygem
Thank you for starting this thread, and I am fully convinced there were advanced human cultures all over the world 10-20,000 years ago including the North American continent. I just have a few questions - Does anyone know if it was possible that Noah's Ark might have been constructed with a keel (for river navigation) and could the impression of a keel still be visible in the earth after thousands of years? Also, could their language have been closer to ancient Hindu than Hebrew, and did they have a written language based more on symbols than letters? Last thing, could the site where the Ark landed have been used as a place of religious ceremony and reverence for thousands of years and perhaps even into the present day by Native tribes?

First to answer your question, if a large enough boat where to land on soft enough soil it would leave an indication of its hull, then IF that depression were filled with sediments or other debris and not eroded you would get an impression of boat bottom. The Sutton Hoo ship's impression in the soil was retained but under different circumstance than you suggest.

There is no evidence that such an ark existed or that there were 'advanced' human cultures in the time frame you noted. Most biblical scholar point to a landing place in the middle east, but then that is like saying 9 angels can dance on the head of pin

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by CaptainLJB

 

Aliens wouldn't be able to come to Earth and make hybrids. You can't just press a button and mix java with C++. that's not how life works.

Nobody would survive off the Earth who was on the earth and then come back secretly. You would come back and ask for help.

God doesn't look like man unless he chooses to. It is the spirit of man that the image is there of God.

Its kinda like the claim of people finding 'alien DNA' ..........