A Behind the Scenes Look at God and the gods…

disclaimer
First let me state that I’m a Christian (Methodist to be exact) and very firm in my faith. I’m also very firm that other than my relationship with God through Christ I’m not very sure of anything pertaining to God and the heavens. I believe the Bible is a user’s manual for our life on earth and is not meant to be a one-stop-shop for all the mysteries of existence.

Without going into great detail of the sources, I’m pulling from Greek/Roman Mythology, the book so of Enoch, the Bible, the Koran, some fictions, and other “resources” to create this little story/idea.

This is just a quick swat at something I’ve thought about for a long time. It may have It may have some historical “holes” in it, but the idea remains.
/disclaimer

In the beginning there was God, God of three beings in one. Together they created the universe and all its inhabitants. Before they created man God created the heavenly host. This included Angles that were for specific purposes.

Three Arch Angles were given responsibility over the heavenly host (a third each) for the specific purpose that they were created for.

1. Gabriel: the communicator of God to all his creation.
   
2. Michael: the soldier of God to be a general of his armies.
   
3. Lucifer: the guardian of God to protect his holiness.
   

Under each of these Arch Angles were hosts that carried out the will of God as directed by the Angel. When God created man he put the essence of himself into Man. God then commanded that all of creation – including the Arch Angles – bow down before Man as his most perfect creation (as it was made in his image).

All of heaven rejoiced save one. Lucifer, arguably charged with the most important duty among all of creation was the most beautiful and powerful of all God’s creation. When asked to bow down before Man Lucifer displayed hubris and pride overtook him. This was quickly filled with envy and soon after hate.

Conspiring with the host of creation that was given to him Lucifer defied God and asked that he be set above man. God could not and would not destroy Lucifer as he loved him like a son but could not allow this treachery to exist in heaven. Thus Lucifer was cast out of heaven and his 1/3 host followed him.

Lucifer then set about the task of trying to prove to God that he was above man and even above God himself. Filled with despair and hatred Lucifer created his own kingdom on the plane of existence that man resided. He would build up a kingdom to rival God and force God to recognize his worth.

Meanwhile in heaven God replaced Lucifer with Raphael as an Arch Angle but never again allowed a sentient being to guard his holiness. On earth Lucifer took it upon himself to corrupt mankind and to force God to see them as inferior creations. Initially it was just the first man (Adam) and his wife (Eve). But soon Lucifer saw that this wasn’t enough because God was too close to them for man to ever truly defy God.

So he instructed his host to go amongst men and warp them. He ordered they be twisted and that the very secrets of heaven (stolen before he was cast out) be taught to man so that – like Lucifer – man could begin to rebel against God.

They established themselves as god among the people taking special precaution to never mention the one true God.

All the gods and goddesses of the world were actually fallen angles vying for control and power under Lucifer, all operating with Lucifer’s grand goal to build a kingdom that would rival God’s. They created complicated rituals to honor themselves and in return gave man access to supernatural powers.


[edit on 10-6-2010 by gncnew]

[edit on 10-6-2010 by gncnew]

[edit on 10-6-2010 by gncnew]

Lucifer made a few focused and serious attempts to establish an earthly kingdom that he could build to rival God’s. First the Egyptian empire in 3000 B.C., The Myans in 2000 B.C., then the Persians (which included the Babylonians) in 750 B.C. , the Romans/Greeks in 535 B.C., and finally the Aztecs in 1200 A.D.

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In Egypt – his first attempt – Lucifer established himself as Amun. He instructed the lesser angles to describe him as a trinity of Amun (Father), Atum (Spirit), and Ra (son). This was an attempt to establish himself just like God in the world. Under him he established many other angles in a complex hierarchy over each part of existence. This was in an attempt to leave nothing that was unexplainable by his host. All of creation was “controlled” by one of his gods. But as would become the case with all of Lucifer’s host – constant betrayal and in-fighting kept the Egyptian attempt from ever achieving his goals.
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Moving into the regions of Persia the fallen angels Siyamak and Hoshang worked together to establish themselves as gods to the people there and teach them fire, metal working, farming, and herding. In-fighting erupted among the angles and the one that came out victorious was Jamshid. Jamshid established priests to himself, warriors to guard his kings, and working classes. Jamshid was trying to build his earthly version of heaven with himself as god.
But Lucifer was not ok with this. Lucifer was to be higher than god. Removing Jamshid, Lucifer (known as Ahura Mazda) then went through a succession of other angles to try and build his kingdom.
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In Babylonia Lucifer was known as Anu and the angles Marduk, Tiamat, Kingu, Enlil, Nabu, Ishtar, Ea, Enurta, Anshar, Shamash, Ashur, and Kishar worked together (and against each other) vying for control and power under Lucifer to build the kingdom.
In this place God’s prophet Isaiah actually spoke to Lucifer. God lamented how far Lucifer had fallen and agonized for his on to return to him.
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In the Mediterranean Lucifer took the name Zues (or Jupiter) and his court held sway over both the Greeks and Romans.
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In Central America with the Aztecs Lucifer took the name Quetzalcoatl and established a mighty nation leaving Huitzilopochtli in charge – but Huitzilopochtli began to build the Aztecs into his kingdom (much like Jamshid did in Persia). This kingdom fell apart before it could become strong enough to fight off the invasion of Christian Europe.
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Just a thought but the overall premise here is that when God “cast down” Lucifer and his heavenly host to earth, what if that wasn’t it?

What if God’s chosen people, and then his son Jesus were the only way to counter Lucifer’s repeated attempts at building a kingdom?

What if because Lucifer is not God, and thus not omnipotent, his generals ran amok constantly vying for control and power on earth and trying to establish themselves as gods among people?

What if the last attempt – crushed by God’s son Jesus – forced Lucifer into a new strategy of trying to work on humanity to believe there is no God…? What if Lucifer has now decided to build his kingdom on earth based not on god(s) but instead on a “no-god” base?

Would it be a larger insult to God to have man “reach the heavens” based on a false god – or no god at all?

So why can't Lucifer have his own kingdom?

reply to post by Phlynx


He does - but he's trying to build one that rivals God's....

Originally posted by gncnew
reply to post by Phlynx

 

He does - but he's trying to build one that rivals God's....

And the problem with that is?

reply to post by Phlynx


Lucifer, in pride, deemed himself full of Glory, forgetting that God was the source of his beauty and strength. The creation cannot rival the creator.

The sad part is that God would still welcome back Lucifer if he'd just stop trying to boast himself and go back home.

The more tragic part is that this offer has been open all along even though God knows Lucifer will never accept. Hubris defined.

I had read that lucifer was told by God to bow to no one but him.Than God tells him to bow to man
Lucifer than says why should the son of fire bow to the man of clay.
Kinda of catch 22 God says one thing than another hmmm....

reply to post by teraform


I think the point was that Man was a part of God - made in His image. Man has God in him...

Originally posted by gncnew
reply to post by teraform

 

I think the point was that Man was a part of God - made in His image. Man has God in him...

So collectively, as a whole, man is God?

reply to post by Phlynx


No, man was created in the image of God. Man has the essence of God inside them.

Just as your kids have the essence of you inside them, we have the essence of God in us. Maybe DNA?

How strange...?

So, all of man is God. God kills man in abundance if they don't act like he wants.

An Angel does the same is casted to Earth corrupts God on Earth and he gets away with it.

Doesn't make sense.

the story is swell and reads like mythology (which isn't a bad thing... hence my ATS id). the story is also somewhat similar to Tolkien's creation mythology as told in the Silmarillion.


however, as a cosmological explanation of deities and such, it falls into the ol' good v. evil mode of thought that is rather limiting... and all too human.


of course, there is always such a struggle between pride/greed/hate and compassion/genorosity/love, but to syphon the cosmos down to such a binary good guys vs. bad guys tale diminishes the infinte beauty and mystery of creation. it is too simple.

"we're good. they're bad. let' get it on" just doesn't cut it as an explanation of the infinite.


wrestling with good and bad seems the domain of humans. it also seems that god didn't make us in his image, but we made god in our image. we project our issues (our struggle with morality) onto whatever cultural pantheon we are worshipping at the time (currently the abrahamic monotheistic vibe is all the rage). we even projected our face onto god's! how limiting. how vain.



the true gods and goddesses defy our absolute understanding. they transcend our cultural interpretations. they certainly cannot be confined to good vs. evil.


when we get that... then we can began to explore their more esoteric and profound natures.


obviously, all of this is just my version of the myth. 'cause that's all any of us can truly profess.

[edit on 10-6-2010 by mythos]

[edit on 10-6-2010 by mythos]

This sort of explains the huge gap between the main Abrahamic monotheistic religions and the the non-Abrahamic polytheistic ones. If you've ever looked into some of the stuff people like David Wilcock talk about or researched the book "New World Bible: The Story of the Truth", you start to get a clearer, more pronounced picture of theism's roots. You look at quirks in history like the Sumerians and think to yourself, okay where did they get all their technology? Who were the ancient Sumerian Kings that the Sumerians considered 'gods' and where did they come from? Was it really just a bunch of myth and folklore or did ancient civilizations like the Sumerians think of these supernatural beings as gods because that's exactly what these 'gods' wanted to be called?

I used to be a hardcore atheist however the past few months have really taken me by surprise. Call it a spiritual awakening, heh. You think about things like starving children in Africa and then see movies like Zeitgeist and it becomes so easy to say there is no God. However when you start looking for your own answers you realize that there is so much on the topic of God and creation that is so grossly misunderstood.

reply to post by mythos


I feel you.

I think more of it as "lost" versus "found". I don't think Lucifer is any more evil than we humans can be.

I think Lucifer is filled with despair and rage - to me that's tragic ... not evil.

I feel like God is more heartbroken than angry. I think God sits in a state of constant sorrow for his creation knowing that he would gladly accept Lucifer back but that in the end he will have to forever separate himself from his creation.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


No, Lucifer was thrown out of heaven because he defied God and put his will before God's.

Man was thrown out of the Garden of Eden for the same thing.

God's innate holiness cannot exist with sin. Sin is that which is not of God. Christ's sacrifice built a bridge for those with Sin to approach God and not suffer the wrath of his holiness.

God created man - it's his prerogative to kill man as well. Per our actions against our creator we all deserve death, but instead we're given the opportunity for eternal life.

reply to post by Anonymous91


I used to ascribe the "Ancient Aliens" theory pretty heavy. The whole idea that advanced civilizations came to earth and warred among themselves through humanity seemed to explain our jacked up history so much more than the idea of a singular God.

But things change. Hearts and minds change. About 5 years ago I turned to God, acknowledged him and his constant pursuit of me.

After that I started really looking into things from a very open minded perspective. If you believe in God - with a serious concrete faith - there is no danger in exploring the possibilities of what the heavens and God are really like.

I think the bottom line is to never assume we actually have the answers but to delight in the gift of our ability to imagine them.

A cool book - "The Fall of Lucifer" by Wendy Allen is something you may want to look into. Presents a side to the commonly accepted story of Satan that looks much different. To me it's a picture much more in line with an all-Loving God that hurts for his children the way a Father hurts for his sons and daughters.

[edit on 10-6-2010 by gncnew]

reply to post by gncnew


First : The roots of Christianity lies in Judaism. They either do not incorporate an 'evil' entity or the entity actually works along with God to test us. No hell either just a place where everybody goes when they die.

Second : Isiah said God is the creator of all good and evil

Third : Humans created dogs from wolves. Am I allowed to kill a dog ?
I think any man, animal or God who makes a rule, not to kill except for himself, is a full blown hypocrite.


The myths and legends of old describe some very recognizable things. Things that they are not supposed to know and or experienced. Ancient ruins take us back further in time then was once thought and still is by an awful lot of ignorant people.

So maybe no aliens but an older civilization.

You think the bible is something like an instruction manual. Please elaborate.

I'm glad for you, you found a way to satisfy your faith. and please ? Don't take me for a non believer. In my opinion your faith comes from and is based on Christianity. Am I right ?
What I see here is that you are cherry picking. I you believe one thing why not all things. Maybe He whispers in your ear what's right and wrong ?

From what I've learned halve of your story is based on the human imagination. So your whole story is can be thrown with the litter.
I'm not saying you have to do so. I think it was a wonderful story and I enjoyed it.

I'm just sharing my thoughts.

Everything I learn keeps showing the same or worse human flaws in God.
If their truly is a Christian God then we are made in his image and people are giving him way to much credit.

Conclusions :
There is a God and we give him to much Credit.
The Christian God does not exist.
Christianity could be the next try from Lucifer at his kingdom wish.

[edit on 6/10/2010 by Sinter Klaas]

Originally posted by gncnew
reply to post by Phlynx

 

No, man was created in the image of God. Man has the essence of God inside them.

Just as your kids have the essence of you inside them, we have the essence of God in us. Maybe DNA?

So if man is part of God, that most explain our tendency to kill other beings, correct?

Originally posted by teraform
I had read that lucifer was told by God to bow to no one but him.Than God tells him to bow to man
Lucifer than says why should the son of fire bow to the man of clay.
Kinda of catch 22 God says one thing than another hmmm....

a pretty good test of obedience, i'd say.

i think Lucifer passed!

fire hardens clay

GOD is the potter
Lucifer is the kiln
man is the product

Originally posted by gncnew
A cool book - "The Fall of Lucifer" by Wendy Allen is something you may want to look into. Presents a side to the commonly accepted story of Satan that looks much different. To me it's a picture much more in line with an all-Loving God that hurts for his children the way a Father hurts for his sons and daughters.

could you give us a synopsis, perhaps?
i'm interested in hearing what it is about, but i doubt i'd have time to read it these days, no matter how interesting.



thanks

Lately I've taken to researching various ancient cultures, religions, and beliefs including the Sumarians, Babylonians, Indains, and Chinese. In the past I have also read about Roman, Greek, Norse, and Mayan mythologies to name a few. As a side note, I was born and raised a Christain. However, I do not consider myself religious but instead spirtual. I try to keep an open mind when dabbling in these types of topics. I believe there is a higher power, which I would refer to as an 'Entity' rather than "God"; God in many religions is a super-natural being, or race. For me this "entity" is what gives that spark of life behind the eye of a creature. But I digress.

I have found it fascinating how these cultures have many strikingly similar aspects. For example, many of these cultures have a version of a 'great flood' brought about by 'god', after which he promises not to destory us so long as we live in harmony with our surroundings and stop trying to attain the same power. This is in the Epic of Gilgamesh, Indian mythology (the Vedas), the Bible, and even native americans have a similar story.

There's also the common thread of a division, or war, between the celestial beings; creation of man, as well as a snake or reptilain-like creature.

As mentioned in a previous thread, the Babyilonians had a list of Kings (I think this was really the Sumarians list...) during which some kings reigned for shorter periods possible in a human life, whereas others regined for as much as 60,000years. But for this civilization, their "gods" were from another planet where the inhabitiants had a different life span. It's easy to discount this as pure myth, except for 3 things:
1. They believed the alien race created man from using a rib of one of their own (ie, we were bioengineered)
2. They too had the great flood (origins for the Epic of Gilgamesh)
3. The Piri Reis map was supposidly created in the early 1500AD, yet shows Antartica without the ice sheet. Scientists believe this would have been before the last ice age and cannot explain its accuracy.

I guess my whole point of this is that a lot of the history that we are taught is from archelogy; people dig up artifacts, and create stories to go along with them. Thorw onto it religious viewpoints, and you get the biggest verison of the "telephone" game imaginable. Over time the facts get distorted, and they possibly blend with fiction.

It is possible there was another, earlier time of globalization, where we all communicated with the same language and had the knowledge of where we were from. This would explain the common thread in these drastically different cultures and times.

Hard to say if there is a war between God and the Devil, or if it's just a war within the human physce. What I do know is that if they exist, we've possibly put the Devil out of business given the horrible, purly evil atrocities that humans worldwide are comitting on both on-another as well as innocent animals (think labs, food companies, beauty products, etc).

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." ~Mark Twain