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Is the United States on the verge of civil war?

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posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by Asktheanimals
I'm afraid that revolution, even if successful would only degenerate into power squabbles between the victors. Too much blood and money would be sacrificed to overcome this leviathan of a government.
I believe the only sane way to institute change is for a national strike to begin and not end until the people have what they need. We have the power but we must be united for it to ever work. Therein lies the crux of the difficulty.


Your right ATA. Why sacrifice any lives? What is the key thing to remember when fighting any war? To hit them where it will hurt the most. And in this case, their money intake. When you stop their money flow(taxes for a corrupt government), and the flow of goods and services(for corrupt corporations), it will not take long for it to hit home with them. Sure, it will hurt some if not most of us, but it`s better than killing each other in the end. And yes, for it to work, it takes all of us to step up to the plate, and not just a few.

Edit for a last thought: What is it that both the government and corporations want from all of us? To labor for them. When you stop this, they fail and fall.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by FiatLux]




posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by AndrewJay

The simple fact is, aside from making a deal with the devil himself, nobody seems to get ahead in this country.


Excellent piece of writing! This sentence I snipped out of your wonderful rant sums it all up.

I know you don't know me from Adam, but I can tell you, for sure, without a doubt, that yes, we will be plunged into civil war within 3 yrs.

And, I can also say that justice for those who haven't made a deal with the devil, is here.

The case is currently being made for judgement day. Attrocities are being documented, and examined as we speak.



[edit on 6-6-2010 by OurskiesRpoisoned]



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 09:49 AM
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reply to post by AndrewJay
 


Just because conservatives have Obama Derangement Syndrome to the point they're seriously considering killing their fellow countrymen over it doesn't mean an actual civil war is going to take place.

I do believe that there will continue to be isolated random incidents of violence against liberals in this country due to ODS, but that's about it.

Nobody is going to be hoisting a Confederate flag over the White House any time soon.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 10:04 AM
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The problem is that a civil war is what they want. The people of the USA need to stand up and remove the government and replace it with a president who will bring all troops home, return the country to being a manufacturing and farming center. Get rid of all income tax, the only tax should be on items when they are purchased. Close down 60% of the government and run the country like you actually wanted it to survive for more than a decade.

America is already at war, just make sure you don't start killing each other; just get rid of the government. Why do you think Obama went mental when the Hondurans kicked out Zeleya? Because they knew that if it was seen to be ok to get rid of a president that was destroying the country, the people at home might do the same thing!

DO NOT COMPLAIN when you loose your nationality, culture and flag, if you do nothing to stop it!



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by The Theorist
 





Do I believe it's coming? Yes, I honestly do. Do I hope it happens? Loaded question but yes, I honestly do. Will it be within my lifetime? I sincerely hope so. The American people are fed up, and very angry. All it is going to take is that one spark, that one mistake, and it'll happen. The American people are not completely stupid (I sincerely hope that is true).


A Rebellion is an armed resistance to a ruler, or a rulers government
or authority. Usually, but not limited to, that of a foreign country.

A civil war is between at least two factions with'in a govt trying to sease power and is fought with'in that country's border. No foreign troops I guess is the big diff.


[edit on 6-6-2010 by randyvs]



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by theregonnakillme
The problem is that a civil war is what they want. The people of the USA need to stand up and remove the government and replace it with a president who will bring all troops home, return the country to being a manufacturing and farming center. Get rid of all income tax, the only tax should be on items when they are purchased.


For it to happen peacefully, those within the government would have to turn against the government. This will not happen.

People in position of comfort are not going to just hand it over. It needs to be taken. The government needs to learn to respect the people again.

This may take a good ass whoopin', because those within the government just aren't listening.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by OurskiesRpoisoned]



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by OurskiesRpoisoned


This may take a good ass whoopin', because those within the government just aren't listening.



I'm ready! Who's ass do we whoop first. Can we start with the state cop that gave me a ticket for no seat belt. He's in the government and I told him I dont want no ticket but he just wouldn't listen an wrote me up anyway.




[edit on 6-6-2010 by whaaa]

[edit on 6-6-2010 by whaaa]



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 10:18 AM
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Do I believe we are close to an armed Civil War or Revolution? NO. In fact, I find the concept laughable on the one hand and sadly pathetic on the other.

Do I love my government? NO. But what makes me different from those that fought in this nation's Revolutionary war is that I can "vote the bums out." That is the only truly legitimate "revolution" we can engage in.

If someone is so unhappy with the *expressed will* of the nation as a whole, they are perfectly free to pack up themselves up and find a country more suited to their wishes. Certainly something I myself have considered, and consider more as more time slips through the hourglass.

Yes, people are losing their homes, but many of them are voluntarily walking away from homes that are now worth less than the mortgage they are contractually bound to pay. No one forced them to take out that mortgage. No one held a gun to their heads. And, no one is holding a gun to their heads to make them continue payments even though statistically most could. Also, many of the foreclosures were second and third... and sometimes forth homes, purchased with the intent to cash in on the [recent past] ever expanding real estate bubble. Have families lost their homes? YES, but they are the minority segment of the statistics.

Have people's wages gone up during this economic crisis? YES. They are called government workers: at local, state and federal levels. Most of those increases were demanded by the government worker's unions. What's up with that? Government workers and unions?

Want to reform this country? Toss out the damned unions. That is your true "puppet masters" pulling those "strings" ATSers are frequently on about.

A LOT of people are unhappy. Well, a LOT of people were unhappy under Bush 43, pretty much the same percentage too. Are the "other side[s]" such whiny brats that when they are "unhappy" they feel somehow entitled to armed insurrection?

If the majority wants fiscal conservatives: VOTE THEM INTO OFFICE.

If the majority wants social conservatives: VOTE THEM INTO OFFICE.

If the majority wants to do away with fiat currency: VOTE THOSE INTO OFFICE WHO WILL ABOLISH IT.

ETC... ETC... ETC.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 01:10 PM
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I think we will find out in November, 2010 depending on whether we have honest elections. Since I'm off the deep end, I really have a question whether the Marxist regime in power will give up their control due to something as trivial as a constitutional election.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by billyjack
 


I don't disagree with you Billy Jack. These are "unsettling" times and many a recent day/night has found me in grave fear for my country. But I am not yet ready to give up on the "Peaceful Revolution" our Founding Fathers bequeathed to us and the blood spilled by those defending that inheritance.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by billyjack
I think we will find out in November, 2010 depending on whether we have honest elections. Since I'm off the deep end, I really have a question whether the Marxist regime in power will give up their control due to something as trivial as a constitutional election.


I said exactly the same thing about the neocons. Opps, looks like Obama is continuing their legacy of blood, war and profits for those that deal in the lives of our youth.

How is that Marxist? Sounds more like facism.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by Phoenix
As long as the "elite" can keep people dumbed down and factionalized into "groups" such as liberal, conservative, socialist, anarchist, pro/con whatever, white, black, hispanic, any racial, religious or political label etc. they will remain in power.


"Birds of a feather, flock together". A trite homily perhaps but it does convey the truism that people will form groups with those they identify with, on whatever level.

My caveat is the Elites have not 'created' social groupings; they are however, adept at exploiting the groups themselves and manipulating group behaviour.

The trick is to through concensus, identify and prioritise the common human identifier. But another human behaviour factor that the elites have exploited is the desire or need for leadership. As long as there is no post majority consent leader to provide the pivotal focus for any naturally lawful or moral revolution, the elites and the system would be able to continue to coerce the majority to accept the status quo.

[edit on 6/6/2010 by teapot]



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs

A Rebellion is an armed resistance to a ruler, or a rulers government
or authority. Usually, but not limited to, that of a foreign country.

A civil war is between at least two factions with'in a govt trying to sease power and is fought with'in that country's border. No foreign troops I guess is the big diff.
[edit on 6-6-2010 by randyvs]


Either way, why would international elites waste any defence budgets if they could coerce Americans to rise up against eachother?



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 04:31 PM
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Do I believe we are close to an armed Civil War or Revolution? NO. In fact, I find the concept laughable on the one hand and sadly pathetic on the other.

Do I love my government? NO. But what makes me different from those that fought in this nation's Revolutionary war is that I can "vote the bums out." That is the only truly legitimate "revolution" we can engage in.


Do you honestly believe your vote means anything when both candidates are hand picked by the same people? Would you like a black Bush or another white Bush?



If someone is so unhappy with the *expressed will* of the nation as a whole, they are perfectly free to pack up themselves up and find a country more suited to their wishes. Certainly something I myself have considered, and consider more as more time slips through the hourglass.


Some people dont see running away from their country as an option. It must be that pill of American Pride I'm forced to take up the ass every day. Might just be stupidity. Probably a mixture of both.



Yes, people are losing their homes, but many of them are voluntarily walking away from homes that are now worth less than the mortgage they are contractually bound to pay. No one forced them to take out that mortgage. No one held a gun to their heads. And, no one is holding a gun to their heads to make them continue payments even though statistically most could. Also, many of the foreclosures were second and third... and sometimes forth homes, purchased with the intent to cash in on the [recent past] ever expanding real estate bubble. Have families lost their homes? YES, but they are the minority segment of the statistics.


Minority? You obviously have no idea how easy it is to lose your job, get behind a few months in paying off your loan, and literally get thrown out on your ass by the sherif. Even without being laid off it can still happen very easily. Are you seriously suggesting thats its OK that people are being thrown out of their house on a daily basis?



Have people's wages gone up during this economic crisis? YES. They are called government workers: at local, state and federal levels. Most of those increases were demanded by the government worker's unions. What's up with that? Government workers and unions?


Not permanent positions and shouldnt even be taken into consideration.



Want to reform this country? Toss out the damned unions. That is your true "puppet masters" pulling those "strings" ATSers are frequently on about.


Lol.



A LOT of people are unhappy. Well, a LOT of people were unhappy under Bush 43, pretty much the same percentage too. Are the "other side[s]" such whiny brats that when they are "unhappy" they feel somehow entitled to armed insurrection?

If the majority wants fiscal conservatives: VOTE THEM INTO OFFICE.

If the majority wants social conservatives: VOTE THEM INTO OFFICE.

If the majority wants to do away with fiat currency: VOTE THOSE INTO OFFICE WHO WILL ABOLISH IT.

ETC... ETC... ETC.


Again voting holds no power.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 04:51 PM
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How many times do we have to talk abou this???

You internet revolutionaries like to talk big...but you know nothing is going to happen. Mostly because you are a very very small minority.

I kind of hope a fanatical group does try something just to show you internet revolutionaries how fast and easy it will be to put an end to it...and how the overwhelming majority of the American public will support the government in doing so.

It's hard to even take this topic serious anymore.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 04:51 PM
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Really REALLY good thread! Lots of interesting discussion.

I don't think we'll have a civil war OR a revolution. I think In November, the voting tide will shift and then in the next presidential election, the leadership will change and as someone said, the people who are happy now won't be happy, and the people who are unhappy now will be happy. And on and on it goes. The economy will eventually even out (not yet, but eventually), and people will go back to work and we will go on - Still as sick as we are today, with a government full of corruption, greed and power-lust, but we won't care, because we'll all have jobs and our needs will be taken care of...

That's what I think - But I could be wrong,


I wonder what people are feeling or witnessing to make them think that a war is eminent... I mean, what, particularly, not just a general statement like, "We're losing all our rights" or "Everything the president says is a lie". I just wonder. If you feel like answering, that would be cool.

[edit on 6/6/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by AndrewJay

Do you honestly believe your vote means anything when both candidates are hand picked by the same people? Would you like a black Bush or another white Bush?


There is some validity to your point, but only some. However, primaries are proof against that being an absolute truth.




If someone is so unhappy with the *expressed will* of the nation as a whole, they are perfectly free to pack up themselves up and find a country more suited to their wishes. Certainly something I myself have considered, and consider more as more time slips through the hourglass.


Some people dont see running away from their country as an option. It must be that pill of American Pride I'm forced to take up the ass every day. Might just be stupidity. Probably a mixture of both.


No, some people believe they have a right to bring about the government THEY wish over the expressed wishes of the majority if they happen to disagree with that majority.

I may disagree with the majority, but I do not feel I have a right to bring them to my Grand View of RIGHT at the point of a gun. But, hey! To each his/her own... as they say. But I would suggest that Pelosi would agree with YOU and not ME on this issue.




... Have families lost their homes? YES, but they are the minority segment of the statistics.


Minority? You obviously have no idea how easy it is to lose your job, get behind a few months in paying off your loan, and literally get thrown out on your ass by the sherif. Even without being laid off it can still happen very easily. Are you seriously suggesting thats its OK that people are being thrown out of their house on a daily basis?


I'm fairly new here and I've been AMAZED several times already how MANY people know so much about me! They know so much about me that they presume to know what I do ... or as is the case... don't know, as to be utterly stunned! WOW... it must be nice to be so omniscient!

You. sir, have NO IDEA what I've experienced in this economic turmoil and I take offense that you presume that you do.




Have people's wages gone up during this economic crisis? YES.


Not permanent positions and shouldnt even be taken into consideration.


My reply related to the question posed about no wage increases. I did not mention jobs created. Frankly, hold on to your hat: I agree with you on that issue. The fact that those 10 week job assignments were included is an insult to our collective intelligence.



A LOT of people are unhappy. Well, a LOT of people were unhappy under Bush 43, pretty much the same percentage too. Are the "other side[s]" such whiny brats that when they are "unhappy" they feel somehow entitled to armed insurrection?

If the majority wants fiscal conservatives: VOTE THEM INTO OFFICE.

If the majority wants social conservatives: VOTE THEM INTO OFFICE.

If the majority wants to do away with fiat currency: VOTE THOSE INTO OFFICE WHO WILL ABOLISH IT.

ETC... ETC... ETC.



Again voting holds no power.


Is it really just "power" you want? Surely that is not what you mean.....

[edit on 6/6/10 by Geeky_Bubbe]



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 05:51 PM
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I seriously doubt that the US will face any organized form of armed rebellion. In the event of a major catastrophic economic collapse, you will probably see armed riots and clashes within the major metropolitan areas, mainly for food and water or just to cause general havok. But as soon as such a collapse takes place, the government will institute its Martial Law plans, which have been very well thought out.


The Executive Orders on the books allow the government to immediately seize all means of communication, transportation, energy production, food production, etc., and they have the right to force people into mass deportations and relocations for labor needs. While theire might be some local resistance to such moves, given the tactical, logistical, and technical superiority of government forces over a rabble of locally organized civilian forces, such resistance would be quickly and brutally quashed.

Over time, if some of the military defected on the side of civilians, against a repressive Martial Law government, there might emerge a civil war--but that is a big "if", for which the intelligence agencies have contingency plans.

In the event of a major and catastrophic economic collapse, I forsee an eventual collapse of everything--all major corporations, government institutions, social institutions, etc.--resulting in true social chaos and an extended famine for some time, with the potential loss of millions of lives. I think that over the course of the next generation or so we may have the opportunity to rebuild a new social/economic/governmental system out of the ruins of the old, and hopefully we will have learned a few things from our previous failures.

I have faith that things will turn out fine in the very long run--a period spanning the next few hundred years. But I am not so optimistic in the short run. I think we are on the verge of a world of hurt, unlike anything ever seen in recorded history.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 06:15 PM
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reply to post by Angiras
 


I agree very bad things could be coming our way. But, I also believe that it is equally possible very good things could be coming our way too. Sorta like that proverbial "fork in the road." Either path we wind up on, the immediate future is likely to be painfully bumpy. Whether it's only a few years of pain, or decades, coming at us I do not know, and I would be disingenuous if I didn't admit that I am nervous and a bit afraid.

This past Easter I wrote this...

...Today is Easter Sunday, the most holy day of the Christian calendar. Today is also the anniversary of the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Dr. King was instrumental, nay – fundamental, in changing America for the better. Non-violence, even in the face of governmental tyranny, is the road to the legacy we should wish [need] to leave those who come after us.

Dr. King provided us with the example and the road map.

I may hearken back to “Old Dead White Guys” but I am grown weary of reading the Thomas Jefferson quote “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants” as a legitimizing call to revolution or revolt. To this I say a loud and energetic: BULL #!

Read Mr. Jefferson’s words in context and the message is something entirely different.


[...]The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, & what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves. Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusetts? And can history produce an instance of rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it’s motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion.

The people cannot be all, & always well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independent 11. years.

There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & a half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them.

What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.

Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusetts: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen-yard in order.
[Emphasis and paragraph breaks added]


[continues below...]

[edit on 6/6/10 by Geeky_Bubbe]



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 06:16 PM
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[continued from above post]

I would posit that you cannot hold sacred and blood sanctified part of the Constitution without doing so for the whole. And you absolutely cannot call for a blood sacrifice invoking the Constitution because you do not agree with the actions of your duly elected officials. Our courts and our ballot boxes are the remedies for such. Such remedies as our Founding Fathers did not enjoy themselves, hence their actions that birthed this great nation.

Do not be seduced by the idea that armed insurrection is as valid in our present political reality as it was in a very specific point in time for Thomas Jefferson when he penned the Declaration of Independence committing to the course of action he fully understood to be treasonous, and fully expected to result in his hanging. Perhaps keeping that in mind might profit those “white folk” out there who might be entertaining the idea of backing up with action the prostituted words of Thomas Jefferson.

The Tree of Liberty has roots that run deep in fertile ground. It needs no “refreshing,” rather, just a population that remembers… correctly… the history of its planting.




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