Pirates and the Freemasons?

First thing's first. If you are going to try and convince me that Freemasons aren't evil and that there is no conspiracy, just leave the thread now. You will be wasting your time and making your argument worse.

I haven't been around on the ATS for a while, cause there is a lot of ignorance fludding the forums. But I have a questions that has been on my mind.

What were the relations like between pirates and the freemasons? I had always assumed that Pirates were the complete opposite of the Illuminati, seeing as they did as they pleased and lived completely outside the system. But I read something about them being affiliated with the Illuminati.

If you know anything about this, can you please enlighten me?

If I remember correct most pirates were hired by the powers that be to attack other nations. I can tell you that a lot of those leaders were Free masons themselves.
Some were even Grand master

back in the day, proxy wars used to be fought with pirates. now instead of pirates we have terrorists, funded by elite arabs. supported by the cia. funded by the freemasons maybe

the only connection is that the pirates used to work for the elites back then, and to the elites they were worthless.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
If I remember correct most pirates were hired by the powers that be to attack other nations. I can tell you that a lot of those leaders were Free masons themselves.
Some were even Grand master

Those were buccaneers, they plundered only enemy merchant shipping for King and country. And it would make perfect sense for masons to be involved in it, just as they are deeply involved in the military.

Pirates are just outlaws that plunder ANYONE they can get their hands on.

I don't know about the masonic connection with piracy, if there is one.
Masonry is more about organized insider crime and corruption, and covering it up.

Masons don't do armed robbery, there is no need.
They can steal far more through fraud and deception than by violent physical force.

Wall street is rife with masonry, and they steal big time, but you won't find many masons in orange jump suits in jail for burglary, or auto theft.

Well I know that privateers worked for different countries. Does that mean that all pirates were just privateers? What about the swashbucklin rum drinkin pirates like in the movies? Are they all just a stereotype to divert attention from what the pirates actually did?

I suppose it would be like mercenaries today.

Blackwater goes into Iraq and butchers a few thousand people rapes and plunders the country. But they are not criminals, but American war heroes.

Likewise Buccaneers can plunder, murder, and burn ships belonging to the other side in a war, and be heroes to their own country. A bit like Israel I suppose.

Freemasonary is tied to the founding of the US...ideals of the individual, true democratic votes, and of course the "Skull and Crossbones."

Pirate ships were the first truely democratic forms of governing as each member of the ship had an equal vote. All were eligable for compensation in the event of a wound...equally. The ships members could actually vote out a "Captain" if unsuccessful or incompetent.

These same ideals carried over to the American colonies...remember, much of the colonies were settled by refugees, inmates, exiled free thinkers, the oppressed and persecuted and prosecuted. A land of rebels in the making.

As such, consider the Pirates Code of Conduct and you may see a familiar slant to our founding fathers.... many of which came here or were born here from exiled and persecuted refugees and political exiles.

reply to post by Bananarama


Here's an ATS thread regarding the topic:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here's some additional reading:

masonicdiscussion.com...

www.phoenixmasonry.org...

Pirates and Corsairs indeed...

reply to post by Mirthful Me


not that I want to interrupt this fine example of mason bashing, but MM, have you ever heard that line in the ritual? I have not.

Back on topic:

Masons are bad, mkay.

reply to post by Bananarama


Hi. I'm a Freemason. You probably hate me but I will share what knowledge and opinions I have regardless... because while I am an evil man hellbent on ruining everyone's day, I also love history, so alas, you get the best of me.



Pirates have been around since .. well since ever, but they were immortalized by the Pirates of the New World .. It's mostly an American fixation, as we love a bad guy .. but Pirates really came into their own in the New World because the leading powers could hire a Privateer (Pirate) ship to assault cargo vessels, trade routes, bombard ports, harass islands and so on .. the Privateers would take a large percentage of the loot they gathered, and the Crowns (heads of state) would get the satisfaction that they ruined their rivals day at minimum cost and the threat of instigating wider wars.

However.. You should dispell the notion you have that Pirates lived "outside the system" .. We know from written accounts that Privateer was, for the most part, mercenaries on the high seas .. paid for by private companies, heads of States, even other Privateers.. There were actually far fewer "rouge" Pirates that assaulted anyone and everyone, especially as naval powers increased, bigger faster ships were far harder to take over, and going head on into a fleet of Spanish or English Ship of Lines well .. even a Pirate knew when to stand down.

As far as Masonry goes, it is believed (of course not proven, but most likely true) that the Knights Templar became Pirates after their execution at the hands of the French King Phillip in 1307 .. The Knights Templar DID own a vast navy, the largest private navy ever operated, and it was the only Navy in Europe permitted to operate outside of Papal control (and the only one who had no Papal colors) .. So the legend goes (and all legends have a base in fact) that the Knights who survived fled to the French North Coast and took to the seas.. Legend again tells us they went to Scotland .. Let me go into the legend a bit:

The year is 1314, 7 years after the persecution and murder of many Templar Knights. King Edward I was at war with Scotland, and he dispatched Prince Edward II to the North to fight the Scots.. He had massed a massive army, intending to crush the Scots and force them into submission .. it was, historical evidence suggest, a pivotal moment.. if Scotland lost this battle they would have had nothing left to defend against an English take over, and the crown would have lost it's power.

The battle ensues, Bruce is outnumbered by a considerable amount, but was heroic on the first day of battle. The English came at them again at daybreak on the second day, and the Scots were folding under the weight of the English army. But then another force moved in from the North, which was presumed to be a Scottish reinforcement, but flew no colors, they obviously knew how to fight, because within a few hours they routed the entire English army.

I would say that Templars based operations in Scotland, and harassed French trade routes in European waters, as well as English .. some legends say they flew the skull and cross bones, I've read others say it was a red flag with a sword, either or, the navy was never fully accounted for. There were also legends that Templars used their navy to venture to the New World, if I can remember the name of an excellent book on the topic I'll edit it in. But another legend supports it, that the Templar in Portugal who changed their name to the Knights of Christ (Portugal refused to persecute them), provided the coordinates to Columbus to find the New World .. which perhaps makes more sense than boarding a boat and floating into nothingness with no charts.. Who knows, it's all legend, but I believe all legends have some merit of truth.

Anyways. Templar are not Freemasons, but some, myself included, hypothesis that it's entirely possible Freemasonry originated our of the ruins of that old order, so perhaps their history is our history, perhaps not, no one can say for sure. The Skull and Crossbones are not a strictly Masonic symbol, nor was it a Templar, and was used as far back as ancient Greece.. always in some representation .. bones, skulls, swords, all inspire fear, common theme.

Hope my rambling helps, if anything, gives you some legends to look up.

Originally posted by Bananarama
What were the relations like between pirates and the freemasons? I had always assumed that Pirates were the complete opposite of the Illuminati, seeing as they did as they pleased and lived completely outside the system.

The Golden Age of Piracy ended in the early 1700's and the Bavarian Illuminati did not form until 1776. I am not sure why there would be any relation of piracy to a group which formed in a land-locked state well after the time when most piracy had been minimilized.

But I read something about them being affiliated with the Illuminati.

Do you have a link or citation to where you may have read this?

reply to post by Bananarama


The maritime battle flag of the Free Mason's, is a white skull over two crossed white bones. On a black flag.
As for the Illuminati. My dad was one, a DDS. He turned down the Mason's, he turned down the Templer's.
I nearly fainted when he did that. So what does a devote, Roman Catholic accept. He had something truely unique. He was the only dentist in a town of over 45,000 pll.
I have been brought before The Knight Templar VI, of the Illuminati, and not the Knights Templer. See where the confusion, can come into play. You have to watch the spelling of the word, one has an "a," in it, the
other an "e," in it. hope this helps some, with you quest for the knowledge. They are two totally diffent things, yet have simular accords, to them.

tc

Oh boy, I'm a Mason and I have the Jolly Roger flying under the American flag at my shop..... You do the math.

reply to post by JuniorBirdsmanCEO

I didn't realize that the Masons had a naval body or that we had a battle flag.

There are many groups out there using the phrase "Knights Templar".

reply to post by KSigMason


It's in the "Hiram Key," book. Aslo on wiki

reply to post by JuniorBirdsmanCEO

So Christopher Knights book is evidence that we have a naval body? Where do we use this Jolly Rogers?