warning this can offend law abiding citizens - Which I'm not one of.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by henriquefd
He showed them how one person´s voice can reach many and get them together to one purpose, even if that purpose is nothing but a harmless prayer before a football game.

There's more to it than that. He took extensive digs at many portions of the curriculum that he disagreed with and interpreted and denounced them on the basis of his christian fanaticism. Whoever wrote the summary is also a christian fanatic with a serious misunderstanding of the First Amendment.

[edit on 25-5-2010 by traditionaldrummer]

I didn't want to touch that subject, because here in brazil we don't have those moral issues you have in US. We would never change Christmas to Whatchamacallit Holiday. Christmas is Christmas, at least to us. We also dont call black people in brazil, Afro-brazilians. White is white. Black is black. Yellow is yellow. And we see nothing negative about it. I am not saying there is no racism in Brazil. There is. But we don't go that way about it.

I'm not saying we are better or worse because of that. We are just different and because of that we see things in a different way. Thus, I see no issue with the Principal being a christian and wanting to say a prayer. Especially since it seems most of the audience joined in prayer, so it seems he was talking to the right audience. And I don't follow christian religion either.

I am also not saying I am better or worse for that. Just that to me, that is a non-issue and which is why I don't treat it as the most important part of this story. So i won't touch that, but I won't interfere with those want to discuss that instead. I understand it. I know that happened in US and not in Brazil. I understand it is a more sensitive topic in US than it is in Brazil. So it is not fair to me or to you to voice my opinions about it. I will let those who are bothered about it to discuss it. Go ahead.

So, to me, since the religious part is a non-issue, I still applaud him, or if you will, his good intentions and the good results produced by his actions and wish we had more of that, because I don't see negative results from his actions.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by henriquefd

 

If that principal could reach one person and that person one day could have his voice heard by many and had the same ability this teacher has to reach the crowds and move them to act together for a greater good, it was all worth it.

Out of just pure speculative curiosity...

Would you be back patting if this was about Allah? Krishna? Or any of the multitude deities worshiped by various American citizens at public events?

Doesn't anyone get it? Christianity is *NOT* being suppressed in a nation of *mostly* Christians! Jesus, how stupid can your followers be? There is no need to back pat this moron who's bitching that he can't push his religious views in a public setting upon those who hold different faiths or no faith at that same public event. He's an intolerant hypocritical uneducated bigot. Simple as that.

I am not a follower and calling people names make you sound immature and doesnt help you very much.

What makes you think I'm not Christian? Plenty of Christianity out there that doesn't support the teachings of Jesus. Sounds more like intolerance to anything but Christianity.

Huh?!?!?!?!

reply to post by henriquefd


I appreciate your opinion, but it doesn't answer my question. It has nothing to do with your personal beliefs, it's a simple question.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by henriquefd

 

I appreciate your opinion, but it doesn't answer my question. It has nothing to do with your personal beliefs, it's a simple question.

Ok, I will answer your question. yes, I would applaud him, no matter what religion he was talking about, because I am not a fanatic, either in favor, or against. It is no issue to me, I told you. I dont care in what language and form what religion he wanted to pray on that microphone. It really doesn't bother me. At the end of the day, religious belief is something personal, subjective and it is up to each individual to decide in what he believes. Believe in whatever you want to believe, dude. I dont care.

I will add this: you have to know who you are talking to. From the OP it does seem he was talking to the right crowd, since the OP states everyone joined in prayer, so I see no harm done. Or almost everyone. That is not the point. The point is this article is not about people revolting because the principal is a fanatic trying to push his religious beliefs. I didn't read anything about negative reactions from the public.

If I was in that audience, I wouldnt join in prayer, but I wouldn't get angry about it. It wouldn't bother me at all. I would feel the same way I feel when I go to a wedding, since they are celebrated in Catholic churchs, here in Brazil. I would feel a positive vibe and that would feel good. That´s all.

That is my opinion, as you asked. If you don't like it, or don't agree with it, cool. I am not here to please anyone, just to share my opinions on threads that get my attention. I will further develop my opinions and engage in discussions when I see a good environment to do so.


[edit on 25-5-2010 by henriquefd]

reply to post by henriquefd

here in Brazil

Ah, OK... Here in my country we have this document called the constitution, it's up to every citizen to abide by it to it's fullest extent. I'm not sure how you do things down there in Brazil and your opinions are duly noted, but they are meaningless to this discussion of American constitutional law.

Here in my country, every religion is constitutionally guaranteed equal opportunity and rights. Unfortunately, Christians in this country have this cockamamie idea that they founded the country and have sole sovereign rule over it. Our government is secular and hence all public places are secular.

No one is telling the poor little Christians who weaseled their deity into different aspects of our government that they can't worship in public places at all, but that they can't be the *only* religion sanctioned at public events. Being the only religion sanctioned at public events in this country violates our laws and shows disservice to those who refuse to follow our laws, that and it's just rude and intolerant towards others at public events who may want their deities sanctioned and announced publicly or to those who feel that religion is for church, not public events.

Again, I appreciate your commentary, but please next time when it comes to American law and constitution, think before you post. Again, our country wasn't set up to cater to one particular religion, but to give ALL religions equal rights. Sanctioning in a public event one religion over all others violates that law.

If the Christians don't like it, then they can bring back the good old bloodshed days.

[rant]
We have become so intolerant of each other , we are weighted down with merely making sure that we say stuff so softly to not offend someone. It's becoming retarded.

You can't say this because you will offend someone's race.

You can't say this because you will offend someone's rights.

You can't say this because you will be sued by someone who is offended.

You can't say this because SOMEONE will take OFFENSE.

It's disgusting. You can't speak your mind because someone will get offended.

What happened to tolerance for other people's views? What happened to recognition of other people's thoughts, understanding that you don't have to agree, because it is their thoughts, feelings or beliefs?

It really creates undue stress having to be PC all the time for fear of upsetting someone.
[/rant]

thanks for the the space, and thanks for reading.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom FROM speech - it means the exact opposite.

Everyone who has a problem with the principal in this thread is making me laugh.

I don't care what people say to or around me because I'm not so easily susceptible and weak in my mind. God isn't going to judge me for what I hear unless I put myself in a place where I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt what I would be hearing. But He sure wouldn't be happy if I didn't speak my heart when the time came.

I don't care what any of y'all say to me. I don't care what you do. You make your own choices.

But to say that this guy is cramming his fanatic religion down your throats is juvenile.

Intrepid, you're being a hypocrite. You complain about hypocrisy on the board in other threads, but you are sitting here condemning what the guy is saying and then turning around and saying things that some of us wouldn't like to read or hear. I have no problem with you speaking your mind, but seriously - pay attention to yourself. Your perception isn't the only one that matters you know.

Everyone who is trying to claim the principal doesn't know what he's talking about are clearly demonstrating their disdain with christianity and/or religion in general. Sure, that's fine, say what you want. But that doesn't make you any more right than he is. He has a right to speak his mind about what he believes and no one has to believe what he believes.

But, you did notice that most of the people at that school decided to pray after his speech?

See, the reason he gave the speech was not just to shove his ideas and beliefs down peoples' throats. The reason he gave the speech is because he knew that he was being instructed to NOT do something that he usually does. Therefore, he thought it necessary to explain himself as well as make a statement about how it makes him feel and then tell people how it is possible for them to carry on as normally as possible.

If you people can see anything wrong with this... then you people are the fanatics.

Seriously - relax. Stop blaming God because people abuse His religion and His name. Stop attacking christianity because self-proclaimed christians don't live up to their namesake.

Start looking at yourselves. Are you being mature and leading a wiser life? Who are you to judge? You may not believe the Bible, but regardless of what you may think, there are a few good words of wisdom with which you might live a better life.

And the operating proverb here is, "Remove the plank from your own eye before attempting to remove the splinter from your neighbor's eye."

reply to post by Cygnis

What happened to tolerance for other people's views? What happened to recognition of other people's thoughts, understanding that you don't have to agree, because it is their thoughts, feelings or beliefs?

This is where we delve into the land of hypocritical bigotry. No one, not even this new law is saying they don't have the RIGHT to speak FREELY about their religion. All it's saying is that they can't PUBLICLY SANCTION their ONE RELIGIOUS VIEW at a PUBLIC EVENT with MANY RELIGIOUS VIEWS. If they want to privately pray to their deity of choice/indoctrination, they are FREE TO DO SO.

Please don't misinterpret what this law is or what it means. If you don't understand, just ask and those of us who do understand it will happily explain it to you. Just as I did, with really big words all capitalized as to minimize the chance of you missing them and still not understand something so utterly simple.

Church is church, public is public.

I live in West Texas. I have been to a few (dozen) Odessa Permian games. Our local high school plays them in pre-district games annually. Out here, high school football is a religion. If you are going to be successful in your business, you have to be seen at the games on Friday nights with your family. It is just that way.

Before each and every game a prayer is said, and we stand for the national anthem. When i see a kid wearing a hat, i dress him down (as does anyone else...that is the way it is out here).

Every Friday before we commence our Rotary event, we say a prayer and the pledge.

It is a cultural thing. No, I am not Christian. It doesn't mean that I cannot allow other people to commune with their deity, if they have one.

For this to be such an issue in our country is stupid. You don't have to believe in God to stand there and listen to someone pray. And there is nothing difficult about it.

Good for this school official. I am glad he stood up for himself. But down here in West Texas, he would just be another one of us. We wouldn't have it any other way.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
I live in West Texas. I have been to a few (dozen) Odessa Permian games. Our local high school plays them in pre-district games annually. Out here, high school football is a religion. If you are going to be successful in your business, you have to be seen at the games on Friday nights with your family. It is just that way.

Before each and every game a prayer is said, and we stand for the national anthem. When i see a kid wearing a hat, i dress him down (as does anyone else...that is the way it is out here).

Every Friday before we commence our Rotary event, we say a prayer and the pledge.

It is a cultural thing. No, I am not Christian. It doesn't mean that I cannot allow other people to commune with their deity, if they have one.

For this to be such an issue in our country is stupid. You don't have to believe in God to stand there and listen to someone pray. And there is nothing difficult about it.

Good for this school official. I am glad he stood up for himself. But down here in West Texas, he would just be another one of us. We wouldn't have it any other way.

THIS is the spirit dammit.

This is the SPIRIT.

Originally posted by nunya13
Since when did school football games become an acceptable event for political soap box speeches?

Since when did classrooms become acceptable forums for political soap box speeches? Yet it happens all over the country in middle schools, high schools, colleges. Oh, did you forget about those?

reply to post by nunya13


Last time I checked our country wasn't founded on the Muslim religion. But then again I don't support any religion that practices killing ones self or others, ie: just about any main stream religion. No matter if you call it a crusade or jihad I have a problem believing a supreme deity would order people to kill in his or her name, and if they did they would lose my belief.

reply to post by sirnex


sirnex,

An adult covers his ears when he wishes not to hear. An adult covers his eyes when he wishes not to see.

This way the person takes responsibility for what they receive.

reply to post by henriquefd


" He showed them how one person´s voice can reach many and get them together to one purpose ..."

Yea , just like David Koresh , Jim Jones and Adolph Hitler did ., just to name a few .



[edit on 25-5-2010 by okbmd]

So, the principal is pissy because the Constitution clearly states that neither the government, not an agent speaking on behalf of that government (as an administrator of a state school would most certainly be doing in their official capacity) is allowed to endorse a religion?

A government employee (principal) using government resources (PA system) at a government-sponsored event (football game, which receives state/federal funds) is not allowed to endorse a religion at the exclusion of all others. If this principal had a habit of opening games with various religious prayers, that would be one thing, but to ONLY invoke a specific religions god is clearly in violation of the Constitution.

The principal needs to learn the difference between acts being performed in a personal capacity versus an official capacity. There is no problem with a parent praying with the team before the game, or even the team praying amongst themselves. There IS a problem with a school official using the school's PA as a glorified "call to prayer", to borrow a phrase from another religion.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by nunya13
Since when did school football games become an acceptable event for political soap box speeches?

Since when did classrooms become acceptable forums for political soap box speeches? Yet it happens all over the country in middle schools, high schools, colleges. Oh, did you forget about those?

There is no Constitutional limit on political speech and endorsement. There is a limit on religious endorsement by the government. That's the difference.

reply to post by sirnex


Thanks for the points, Sirnex, I do understand that what you have pointed out, as I did when I posted it.

I suppose my rant was misplaced in this thread, but seems some get upset over these things, and in most cases, it's because they misunderstand, or perhaps because they feel their opinion is more valid then the other persons.

Sirnex, I do appreciate the further-clarification tho.

The world today is upside down.

This principal has got it right.

We are required to do things against our nature, and deterred from doing what feels natural.

I am glad he took a stand.

The people of the mid-atlantic states have some of the best societies on Earth.

Another freak on about the BS of religion.

Look of all the this you mentioned - birth control, sex abortion, condoms - these are REAL things.

religion is NOT. You can not prove to me one instance where a god exists. I can prove to you many times over the reality or abortion and condoms etc. In a court of law there should be NO religion for I can not use the excuse "god told me to" as a defense because I will be deemed "Crazy".

And rightly so.....people use religion to excuse their behavior and as an excuse for having a weak and simple mind.

For me it not about not believing its about not being controlled by some make believe entity.

So mass praying before a game is absolutely ridiculous. It nothing short mass mind control and getting everyone in the same of mind. Nothing different from people like David Koresh , charles manson, Ron Hubbard. They controlled their "people".

"....those who believe in the manifestation of god should not be afforded the right of free will, for they have already given it up" - me

[edit on 25-5-2010 by C11H17N2NaO2S]