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Teachers Seek $23b- Lifeline or Bailout?

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posted on May, 24 2010 @ 10:00 AM
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Education Secretary Arne Duncan is asking lawmakers to put aside “politics and ideology” as they consider a request for $23 billion in “emergency” funding for public schools – a measure Republicans reject as a massive federal bailout for the teachers’ unions.

The Obama administration is supporting the bill, formally titled the Keep Our Educators Working Act and sponsored by Rep. George Miller (D-CA) and Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA). In a letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) dated May 13, Duncan warned that if the bill is not enacted, “millions” of school children will be adversely affected and the ensuing damage will “undermine the groundbreaking reform efforts underway in states and districts all across the country.”


$23 Billion Dollar Lifeline for Teachers

Who didn't predict this would happen?

So to date this administration has bailed out the Autoworkers Union, Helped and continue to supports the SEIU & AFL-CIO unions, & coming soon the Teachers Union.

Unions sure are benefiting from the taxpayers, how about propping up the private businesses that make the jobs for citizens which in turn helps these employees pay taxes so that the teachers coffers can be replenished by the states that collect taxes.

Fix the top of the pyramid that promotes the success of the base. If the pyramid has a rotten base, the system would collapse in on itself.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by prionace glauca]




posted on May, 24 2010 @ 10:08 AM
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Personally I believe our teachers deserve this money. Hell if we can bail out the bankers who don't deserve a single red cent, why not the people we trust to ensure our country's future is bright. I've never understood why our judges(those in charge of the scum of society) make hundreds of thousands a yeaer while teachers(those we entrust with our children's futures) only make about $30k a year.

I hope they get it


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by skeetontheconspiracy
 


There are many teachers that deserve the money, but this bailout would just continue more of the same wasted practices that the unions practice now. Do you really believe the public system of education accomplishes anything more than fraud and abuse?

THere are some good teachers trapped in the Union system. I say to let the system collapse and start anew. Use that money to provide vouchers for students to attend schools that actually care to teach, not where teachers are just there to collect pay.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by prionace glauca]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by skeetontheconspiracy
 


If the results they were producing were better, than yes I could agree with you but the US school system is failing terribly under the Union that represents them.

Performance based education = more money. not the way it is now.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by skeetontheconspiracy
 


This no about teachers money that is the bait for those that are opposing to this bill.

This about union workers in California and around the nation, but mostly to benefit California, (teachers in the GA re not unionized the state had to make their own bailout to keep some at work one more year) this bill is the bill of a senator from California to pay back for the union workers support of Obama

follow the money trail. . .



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 10:23 AM
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Being a teacher that is a victim of the economic recession, I can tell you that something needs to be done to save what teachers we have left. I agree that the system needs to be fixed. I agree that jobs need to be created so that the tax payers can pay their taxes, which in turn keeps teachers at work. I agree that there is corruption at all levels.

What does that mean in the end?

The only people that get hurt by the laying off of teachers is the students. Forget all the corrupt S.O.B.'s and think about who is really getting hurt the most by this recession: the students. Whole schools are shutting down all over the country, there is an influx of teachers graduating that will not have jobs to go to. A conservative estimate is that the odds of getting a teaching job right now are about 1200:1, teachers to job ratio. Someone with my specialized degree, well, our odds are even less...something like 1500-1600:1.

Programs are being cut, essential tutoring lifelines are being cut, and teachers are losing their jobs. It doesn't matter what it takes, it needs to be done. This is to ensure the survivability of education. Kids that need the extra help won't be getting it in many districts. The district in my hometown just eliminated the entire afterschool tutoring program. I know that one of my siblings would not be graduating in June without it. This is becoming more common as the dollars are drying up.

As far as the teacher's union. Well, I have a beef with them...but that's another story for another day. The point is, is that the people at the bottom of your pyramid, us teachers, are not the leeches. We are the people that educate your kids in hopes that they will do something worthwhile, maybe even develop the cure for cancer, or pull the world out of its crisis someday. If nothing else, this is essential to the continuation of "normalcy" in the US.

It really enrages me that people say that: "Well, you get summers off, vacations, holidays, etc." Well those people are wrong. Most of us take our work home with us. Where you might put in a 40 hour week at work, we take our work home, and some teachers can spend up to 75-80 hours a week grading papers, writing lesson plans, going to enrichment seminars (on our own time), and keeping our minds sharp for the next day. The summer months are no different. Many teachers take summer work because what they make during the year rarely help them make it through the summer. We may get 2-3 weeks off, because the entire month of August is spent writing lesson plans, photocopying materials, and planning for the next school year. So before someone comes on here pointing a judgmental finger, thank your teacher for giving you the ability to read, to critically think, to make an informed decision, and for pointing the finger back at them. Without them, you wouldn't have the skills to continue and flourish in life.




Peace be with you.

-truthseeker



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by truthseeker1984
Being a teacher that is a victim of the economic recession, I can tell you that something needs to be done to save what teachers we have left. I agree that the system needs to be fixed. I agree that jobs need to be created so that the tax payers can pay their taxes, which in turn keeps teachers at work. I agree that there is corruption at all levels.


I am not a teacher and am also a 'victim' of the recession. Why should saving your job be any more important than anyone else? I have four kids. Only one attends public school. The oldest is in college an the younger two go to private school.

85% of the funds our school district receives is salaries. The union won't take a cut or freeze pay. It's a joke. I'm sick of the whining being done by teachers, service employees, bus drivers, etc.

Do what the rest of us do and get a second (or third) job. Wait it out and stop complaining.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by truthseeker1984
 


I am sorry to hear about your position in the current economics. My ex girlfriend is a Teacher in Illinois. That state is so far in the red that it is refusing to pay salaries and benefits, not even IOU's.

Alllowing this bailout to occur does not stop the problem, infact it encourages it. The problem is with those contracts that unions have filled with crazy benefits and language that prohibits bad teachers from being taken out of the system. Public Education has failed, parents would serve better to teach their children at home with online classes.

This bailout is nothing but grease to line the pockets of those who support the current agendas. I am sorry to see you and my girlfriend cought up in the middle of this. She is thinking of going abroad to teach and is writing a book about the corruption that takes place in education.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by prionace glauca]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by zenjewel

Originally posted by truthseeker1984
Being a teacher that is a victim of the economic recession, I can tell you that something needs to be done to save what teachers we have left. I agree that the system needs to be fixed. I agree that jobs need to be created so that the tax payers can pay their taxes, which in turn keeps teachers at work. I agree that there is corruption at all levels.


I am not a teacher and am also a 'victim' of the recession. Why should saving your job be any more important than anyone else? I have four kids. Only one attends public school. The oldest is in college an the younger two go to private school.

85% of the funds our school district receives is salaries. The union won't take a cut or freeze pay. It's a joke. I'm sick of the whining being done by teachers, service employees, bus drivers, etc.

Do what the rest of us do and get a second (or third) job. Wait it out and stop complaining.


Well, first of all, I am not complaining. I am stating fact. It would seem that if you are a victim of the recession as well, it would make the most fiscal sense to pull your kids out of private school and put them in public. But of course that is just my opinion.


Why should saving teacher's jobs be more important than others? Well without the public education system, the rest of the infrastructure of the country would collapse. This institution is one of the cornerstones of a first world country, and the second that something this big collapses you are going to have a big problem on your hands.

To address the problem of the union: As I stated before, I have a beef with them. They do not represent teachers as a whole. They are just as bad as any other union in the states, and is a detriment to the education system as a whole. Their views are bias, and they always look out for themselves more than for the people that they represent. On a microcosm level they very much follow the path of the US government.

Do you realize that the average pay of a starting teacher in the US is around $32,000 a year? Now this may seem like a lot of money, but let us look at the facts:

The average college education major will accumulate anywhere between $15,000-$40,000 of college loan debt while in college. This is just for undergrad. Many do this because they believe that they will make a difference. They take the teaching jobs, because they know that they will have that debt paid off in a short time than if they worked for a retail store or food service or whatever. They also do it for the benefits. A conservative estimate of people aged 22-27 is around 20-30% without any form of insurance (now sure, Obama passed that bill which will now keep kids on parents' insurance until the age of 26....great). A teaching job means that they can "make a difference," have insurance, and have the money to pay off the student loan debt.

Now let us look at graduate school. Many states require that teachers obtain a Master's Degree within the five-year allotted time while teaching. Some districts in the past have been able to compensate them for this. Well, that's all over with now. Those that are required to get a Master's Degree may have to pay out of pocket or through more loans (and gradschool is expensive), unless they are lucky enough to get a scholarship, fellowship, or what have you. The cost for graduate school could be as high as 15,000 a year (or more) if you aren't going to a state school. You multiply that by two, and you're another 30k in debt. All because the state you work in mandates that you have this degree.

Now we have the problem of teachers being laid off. I'd like to see a percentage of those teachers that still have outstanding student loans. Many of us teachers will not get jobs in a "regular field" as many times we are "overqualified" for the job. Retail is not looking for highly educated people. I've been told this by retail managers before. So now we are stuck with unemployed teachers that cannot pay back their loans, and therefore go into unemployment deferment. Well, how much money is the federal government losing out on if those loans were through them? It's a hell of a lot of money.

So how do they get blood from a stone? It's simple: they don't.

Thus this "bailout" or whatever you want to call it, is more of an investment, because the more teachers that are re-employed (and it will be the younger ones with loans...believe me....they don't cut from the top...they cut from the bottom), the more revenue the federal government gets back from the fed loans that are out there. It will be no where the 23B price tag that comes along with it, but it will be something.

You fingerpointers seem to do a great job of blaming teachers for the problem, when in reality it's the union that is the problem. It is the administrators who regularly make above six figures a year. It's the 30 year veteran teachers who also make as much.

You want my solution? Cut from the top. Salary cuts for the administrators. Forced retirement for the 30+ year teachers. Eliminate some sports programs, or make them fund raise. Do they really need new football uniforms every year? There are so many things that could be done, but in the end the only people that are hurting from all of this are the students.

So before you go pointing figures start name-calling (which your teacher should have taught you in kindergarten not to do), thank a teacher for the fact that you are able to do so.

We're all in this together whether you like it or not.



Peace be with you.

-truthseeker



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 11:31 AM
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It's all about the kids and education right?

Not really, it is about taking care of another labor union, which among others are very powerful lobbyists.

These people would rather have their pay and benefits increased while funding for books, supplies and other necessities for educating our youth are CUT.

A bad teacher can't even be fired anymore.

When we completely fail as a nation it will be in part because we have failed to educate our youth properly.

Take care of the teachers, let the schools crumble and cut funding for everything else... And lets see what they produce in the future.

Bail em out before it is too late.




posted on May, 24 2010 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by prionace glauca
reply to post by truthseeker1984
 


I am sorry to hear about your position in the current economics. My ex girlfriend is a Teacher in Illinois. That state is so far in the red that it is refusing to pay salaries and benefits, not even IOU's.

Alllowing this bailout to occur does not stop the problem, infact it encourages it. The problem is with those contracts that unions have filled with crazy benefits and language that prohibits bad teachers from being taken out of the system. Public Education has failed, parents would serve better to teach their children at home with online classes.

This bailout is nothing but grease to line the pockets of those who support the current agendas. I am sorry to see you and my girlfriend cought up in the middle of this. She is thinking of going abroad to teach and is writing a book about the corruption that takes place in education.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by prionace glauca]


I do agree that the bail out encourages the corruption that is continuing in this country at all levels. The unions are crazy to be so stubborn. Like I said in my other response, it is at the highest levels that this corruption is taking place. And honestly, the benefits are not that good. I don't know what it is like in Illinois, but in NY, they aren't that great. No dental, no eye. Those are extra.

The "bad teachers" are normally the ones that go along with whatever agenda is being promoted that day. They stay below the radar until they hit tenure and then they are saved. I don't promote the re-tooling of teacher evaluations, because they are ineffective. I don't believe in salary incentives for better teachers (based on student achievement). What people don't understand is that what we teach in the classroom is not necessarily what we should be teaching. Standardized exams should be eliminated. They are not a proper indicator of student achievement. You would be shocked to learn that about 60% of classroom instruction is geared toward these ridiculous tests. They do nothing to show achievement. Some students are just bad at taking tests. They will always be bad at taking tests. They may know the material, but hit a road block when presented with these things.

Then there's the whole problem of parents. There are many parents these days that are nothing like the parents of 20 years ago. Many don't care what their kids do. They don't take part in the school. They don't take an active role in their child's life. There is a direct correlation between achievement and the amount of time that a parent spends being active in their child's schooling. When you have broken homes, drugs, violence, etc. at home, how can a child possibly do well in school? Some do, but as you can see from many inner city schools, this is not the case. Should teachers be ultimately responsible for the behavior and success of their students? Absolutely not. Especially when you are dealing with fights, gangs, drugs, and all that garbage. Make parents more accountable, and stop using the public school system as a daycare center. Some do that.

I have begun writing a book as well. Maybe I should collaborate with your ex-girlfriend. You wouldn't believe the amount of corruption in the school system. Administrators are the worst.

The teachers at the bottom of the pool are the ones being affected the most by the agendas being pushed, and there's not much we can do about it because our Unions won't even fight for us. They just want more money for their own pockets.

Unfortunately, this institution cannot fail. It cannot fail because kids are in the very middle of all of this. The future of our society is at stake. If anything else, they should have let Wall Street fail. It would have taken a while to bounce back, but it would bounce back eventually. If you let the education system fail, then what is left?



Peace be with you.

-truthseeker



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
It's all about the kids and education right?


For those of us who actually care, yes, it is.


Not really, it is about taking care of another labor union, which among others are very powerful lobbyists.


You're right. It's all about the fracking unions. The teachers at the bottom have no say in this. I would have gladly taken a pay cut or freeze if it would have meant keeping my job. Many others would agree. For many teachers, it's not about the money. It's about making sure that the future of our society's survival is ensured. It's about making sure that students succeed, nothing more. Unfortunately, even the teaching field has been infiltrated by corrupt money hogging lobbyists that care nothing for the kids. Don't use such a broad stroke when talking about this. Many of us care more for the kids than we do about the money.


Peace be with you.

-truthseeker



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 11:41 AM
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I work as a teacher. I teach 11th and 12th grade math and science classes. (And a sociology class, but that isn't my cup of tea)

I went to college and studied biology & chemistry, with a minor in education. I graduated magna cum laude.

I had to get student loans to pay for it. I had $50k in debt when it was all finished. Yes, I did work part time and full time during summers.

After income tax, and student loan payments, my take-home is about $1,550 a month.


We're overpaid?





[edit on 24-5-2010 by 30_seconds]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by truthseeker1984

Why should saving teacher's jobs be more important than others? Well without the public education system, the rest of the infrastructure of the country would collapse. This institution is one of the cornerstones of a first world country, and the second that something this big collapses you are going to have a big problem on your hands.


The teachers who partake in the current education system are not for the well being of the student. To most teachers their sole goal is to make sure they keep earning a check and at whatever costs to the system. Their are some great teachers trapped in the current system, they need to be rescued and others dumped. America's youth continues to be ranked lower in intelligence when compare to the rest of the world in Mathematics and Sciences.


To address the problem of the union: As I stated before, I have a beef with them. They do not represent teachers as a whole. They are just as bad as any other union in the states, and is a detriment to the education system as a whole. Their views are bias, and they always look out for themselves more than for the people that they represent. On a microcosm level they very much follow the path of the US government.


This Bill is for the Teachers Union, if you are not part of one. I doubt you will ever see this bailout money. You should be against it also. But if you are part of one, then you are promoting their views as the collective is reponsible for everything that is done in their name.


Do you realize that the average pay of a starting teacher in the US is around $32,000 a year? Now this may seem like a lot of money, but let us look at the facts:

The average college education major will accumulate anywhere between $15,000-$40,000 of college loan debt while in college. This is just for undergrad. Many do this because they believe that they will make a difference.


Many teachers got into into teaching beacause elementary education was not that hard of degree to graduate with. Some went onto attain higher education degrees which are more south that Bachelors as in any field. People who became teachers did not do it for the money, so money should be the last thing should be floated as a point of discussion.

Some real teachers who wanted to make a difference got into it for principles, but those teachers are drowned out by the unions. $32k is take home pay at the minimum. But you fail to mention the benefits and vacation time provided with summers off. Some hard working teachers I know also tutor on the side as they believe in the school curriculum is not enough and it helps pay the bills.







[edit on 24-5-2010 by prionace glauca]

[edit on 24-5-2010 by prionace glauca]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by prionace glauca
 



$32k is take home pay at the minimum. But you fail to mention the benefits and vacation time provided with summers off. Some hard working teachers I know also tutor on the side as they believe in the school curriculum is not enough and it helps pay the bills.


32K is take home, AT THE MINIMUM? How do you calculate that? Where are your sources? My take home pay after my student loans, and taxes was less than 22K. Less than half of what I was "making." Most of that money went back to the feds through loans or taxes. First year teachers on average make 32K GROSS PAY. After taxes and loans, they may be lucky to take home 12k.

And yes, I did mention summers off and vacations. You should read my post again, because obviously you didn't. We don't have summers off. Most of us work to make ends meet. We work on lesson plans, revamping materials, and studying new requirements all summer. We attend seminars that are required yet come out of our own pockets, and on our own time. Are you an educator? Do you have any idea what it is like?



This Bill is for the Teachers Union, if you are not part of one. I doubt you will ever see this bailout money. You should be against it also. But if you are part of one, then you are promoting their views as the collective is reponsible for everything that is done in their name.


Yes, I was part of a teacher's union. No, I did not support what they were doing. Using your logic, all Americans are responsible for the actions of the Federal Government and are all war criminals because of the actions of Bush, and we should all be tried as such. Teachers don't have a choice when working for a district. You have to be part of the union or you cannot work there. Does this instantly mean that we all support it? Absolutely NOT.


Yes, I agree that there are teachers that abuse the system. I'm not one of them, and I would wager that 50% of the teachers in this country are right there with me. But once again, you're joining your fellow painters with the wide stroke brushes. Please don't generalize. It doesn't do us "good teachers" any justice.



Peace be with you.

-truthseeker

[edit on 24-5-2010 by truthseeker1984]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by prionace glauca
 


I think the teachers deserve the money not the union....Unions are a thing of the past. (That statement should piss off some folks...sorry)There was a need for them back in the day but now it's a little bit much. Interesting times we live in. My wife is a high school English teacher and she works her butt off. She's grading papers all weekend and having to go to union meetings during the week that do nothing but take up her time. I don't know what the answer is all I do know is the kids of this country will suffer if something does not happen quickly.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by 30_seconds
I work as a teacher. I teach 11th and 12th grade math and science classes. (And a sociology class, but that isn't my cup of tea)

I went to college and studied biology & chemistry, with a minor in education. I graduated magna cum laude.

I had to get student loans to pay for it. I had $50k in debt when it was all finished. Yes, I did work part time and full time during summers.

After income tax, and student loan payments, my take-home is about $1,550 a month.


We're overpaid?





[edit on 24-5-2010 by 30_seconds]


Was money the reason you went into the field of teaching?

Teachers who are employed by public school districts have traditionally been one of the lowest paid wage earners, so money should not have been your primary reason.

And you are not the only one with student loans, I myself have 200k in student loans that continues to accrue interest.

The education system is full of fraud and needs to be reset. Those promotign fraud and poor practices need to be dumped and the system started anew.

This can be achieved, but the whole reality of the question should do you want it to be achieved?



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by prionace glauca

The teachers who partake in the current education system are not for the well being of the student.


FALSE


To most teachers their sole goal is to make sure they keep earning a check and at whatever costs to the system.


FALSE


Their are some great teachers trapped in the current system, they need to be rescued and others dumped.


TRUE


America's youth continues to be ranked lower in intelligence when compare to the rest of the world in Mathematics and Sciences.


PARTIALLY TRUE



This Bill is for the Teachers Union, if you are not part of one. I doubt you will ever see this bailout money. You should be against it also. But if you are part of one, then you are promoting their views as the collective is reponsible for everything that is done in their name.


PARTIALLY TRUE


Many teachers got into into teaching beacause elementary education was not that hard of degree to graduate with. Some went onto attain higher education degrees which are more south that Bachelors as in any field.


FALSE


People who became teachers did not do it for the money, so money should be the last thing should be floated as a point of discussion.


FALSE


Some real teachers who wanted to make a difference got into it for principles, but those teachers are drowned out by the unions.


PARTIALLY TRUE


$32k is take home pay at the minimum.


PARTIALLY TRUE


But you fail to mention the benefits and vacation time provided with summers off.


FALSE


Some hard working teachers I know also tutor on the side as they believe in the school curriculum is not enough and it helps pay the bills.


TRUE


[edit on 24-5-2010 by DJM8507]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by truthseeker1984
 


Please read my posts in entirety also I do read yours.

I have mentioned the bad teachers and the unions that take advantage of contractual negotiations. Unions could get away with such shady deals because all of the teachers would join these Unions.

I have relatives who are teachers and my girlfriend is one herself. Student loans is something you and I have brought on ourselves. Our take home pay should be calculated before student loans not after. Please also keep in mind the fiendly benefits.

Curriculum plans and revamping lessons is part of the job description. It is something that should come naturally and one who teaches a particular subject should be aware of how to tie lesson plans together. Its not the favorite part of the job but it is in the job description. There are seminars across the nations as they are available for all professions to educate on new trends in their profession. I pay for CE credits which are refunded partially by my employer.

All I have continously said is to take the bad apples out of the system, not to promote them by bailouts, what is taking place now. This system needs shock therapy, that would call pressing the reset button. Have teachers re-apply and tested to make sure they know what they are suppose to teach.

I am in full support of the good teachers out there, but if you are part of the unions promoting the bad teachers also...then you need to value your own position. As those bad teachers are the reasons for the downfall of the good teachers, and continued support of the Unions who harbor the bad apples just promotes further erosion of the education system.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by prionace glauca]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by DJM8507
 


Are we going to get a comment or are you just here to grade me?

I am a terrible speller.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by prionace glauca]




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