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Teachers Seek $23b- Lifeline or Bailout?

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posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:21 PM
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"If you plan for one year, plant rice. If you plan for ten years, plant trees. If you plan for 100 years, educate mankind. "

-Chinese Proverb

I think all that bail out money given to banks, and the whole health care reform, could all of been solved by the simple solution of massive education reform.

If we had put all that money into a complete overhaul of the education system, make it a system where children where taught how to critically think and innovate all of the problems in the US would simply fade in 10-15 years by the next generation of great thinkers.

But of course the PTB want a dumb uneducated flock of people who smile and nod while the world burns.




posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by prionace glauca
reply to post by truthseeker1984
 


Please read my posts in entirety also I do read yours.


You didn't read them entirely, or else you would have seen that I did mention something about summers and vacations.


I have mentioned the bad teachers and the unions that take advantage of contractual negotiations.


Agreed.


Unions could get away with such shady deals because all of the teachers would join these Unions.


Partially true. Teachers don't have a choice when joining the school district. You don't seem to understand that. Unless the district is "Union Free" teachers have no choice in the matter.


I have relatives who are teachers and my girlfriend is one herself.


But you aren't one yourself, so you don't have a full understand of what it is like "in the trenches."


Student loans is something you and I have brought on ourselves.


True, but what option is there? If you have one, I'd love to hear it.


Our take home pay should be calculated before student loans not after.


I'll give you that one. So my take home pay was still only around 24k after taxes.


Please also keep in mind the fiendly benefits.


You make teachers out to be some sort of bad guy....like a Congressman even...



Curriculum plans and revamping lessons is part of the job description.


Correct.


It is something that should come naturally and one who teaches a particular subject should be aware of how to tie lesson plans together.


Also correct.


Its not the favorite part of the job but it is in the job description.


Also correct.


There are seminars across the nations as they are available for all professions to educate on new trends in their profession.


Also correct.


I pay for CE credits which are refunded partially by my employer.


Good for you. Many teachers pay out of pocket for these things with no reimbursement from the employer.


All I have continously said is to take the bad apples out of the system, not to promote by bailouts what is taking place now.


True and not true. You said: "This Bill is for the Teachers Union, if you are not part of one. I doubt you will ever see this bailout money. You should be against it also. But if you are part of one, then you are promoting their views as the collective is responsible for everything that is done in their name." You group all teachers into this "bad apple category" by association. Once again, using your logic, all Americans should be guilty of war crimes because of Bush.


This system needs shock therapy, that includes to press the reset button.


I partially agree.


Have teachers re-apply and tested to make sure they know what they are suppose to teach.


Could work, but the logistics could take months to figure out. What about the students until then?


I am in full support of the good teachers out there, but if you are part of the unions promoting the bad teachers also...then you need to value your own position.


Once again, you are claiming that we are guilty by association. We as teachers have no choice whether or not we are in the union. If you get hired for a school district that is part of the union, then you have to join. This is by no fault of our own. I am angry that bad teachers get treated better than the good ones, but when the Unions control the school districts, we have no choice, or our job could be in jeopardy.


As those bad teachers are the reasons for your downfall also, and your continued support of the Unions who harbor just promotes further erosion of the education system.


Not one time did I say that I support the union. We have no choice in the matter. You are automatically put in the union when you join the school district if the school district has a union. I hate unions as much as the next guy, but it's a job we're talking about. You don't join, they don't hire you. Plain and simple. With the small amount of jobs out there, beggars cannot be choosers.



Peace be with you.

-truthseeker



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:29 PM
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This is just one more reason for taking a hard look at public schools and asking ourselves why publicly funded schools are necessary. Public school teachers argue that the students are the one who loose if we don't throw even more tax dollars at the problem, with no regard for the fact that these public schools are failing on every level.

Public school teachers love to use terms such as taxpayer, without even realizing that the term "taxpayer" has been statutorily defined. When I was in Jr. High School, I took a business economics class and was taught how to fill out a tax return for income tax as a part of that course. Never at any point did the question of liability come into play. Indeed, being in Jr. High, the question of activity was not even brought into play. It was just simply taught as a matter of course, that all people who earn income are subject to the income tax. No discussion was ever broached on whether or not the income tax is a direct tax on income or an indirect tax. There are many valid questions that arise when one looks to the IRC and attempts to read that Code in an effort to understand how they were made liable for the tax to begin with, but such questions are never addressed in public schools, and given that public school teachers are dependent upon tax dollars for their survival, there seems to be a gross conflict of interest in simply teaching children how to fill out a tax return without even discussing the matter of liability.

The Constitution for the United States of America is all too often taught to be "a living breathing document", and remarkably many will teach that what makes this document unique is that it can be changed, apparently ignorant to the fact that France changed its own constitution several times before finally settling on the one they have today, and of course, there is the more recent history of Iraq and their own new constitution, changed from the old one when Saddam Hussein was in charge. The Bill of Rights are taught to be rights granted by the government, and then little to no discussion on what the meaning of the 9th Amendment is. Even worse, the federal Constitution is taught to be the end all and be all of constitutional government and little to no effort is made to teach what is stated in that states own constitution.

When I was in high school, my senior year I had a sociology class where our final assignment was actually a semester long assignment that culminated in a final task at the end of the semester. We were all assigned a marriage partner, where we would then throughout the semester take on various exercises and role playing where as a married couple we would argue based upon rules given us by our teacher, and other such exercises. Our teacher was on her fourth marriage when this class was taught. The final exam was the inevitable divorce.

This was remarkable in that my "wife" and I seemed to have the perfect "marriage". We played by all the rules supplied us, and when we fought, we found resolution for those arguments quite easily, and got along just fine and worked together as a couple achieving many things throughout the semester. My "wife" had a boyfriend in real life, and I had a girlfriend in real life, and both were well aware of this marriage and that Traci and I were the "perfect married couple", so when it came time to get a divorce, none of us could understand why. Traci and I petitioned our teacher but she denied us our request to stay happily married and insisted that part of the assignment was to get divorced, and if we refused, we would fail the class.

Traci and I went to the Principle, but he was little help, and told us he could not interfere with that teachers assignment curriculum. He suggested we petition the school board, of which we did, and a hearing was held. Many of the students and parents attended, outraged that a teacher was insisting the only possible outcome in a marriage was divorce, and of course, Traci and I won our case, and the teacher was instructed to pass us with the highest of grade due to our obvious success in marriage, and that since marriage was the assignment, it was ruled incorrect to insist successful marriages had no validity and that divorce was a more accurate outcome.

One could argue that this was a valuable lesson for all who were in that class, but if such an argument be made, then it was a valuable lesson because two students had the courage of conviction to stand up to tyranny and demand the right to stay married and reject divorce as the only reasonable outcome. It could be further argued that this teacher was taught a valuable lesson by her students. What is ridiculous is that even more tax dollars had to spent in order to hold this special hearing, as the end of the semester was near, and a special hearing had to be held in order for arbitration to be done in a timely manner, and this was at the expense of public funds.

The whole Establishment Clause issue gets diminished into a phrase known as "the wall of separation between church and state", which is a quote from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, and even that quote gets reduced to "separation of church and state", without ever teaching the historical context of that phrase, and subsequently students are graduated believing the Constitution for the United States of America actually states "separation of church and state", and very few who graduate could even tell you that it is the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment that dictates that Congress has no authority to impose a national religion on the people. This is all that Establishment Clause states and it does not preclude teaching religious studies in public schools, but because there is such a divide over religious issues, the public schools have become a political battlefield, where ideology is all that matters, and education is dictated by which ideology prevails.

We have public school teachers who are members of a union, and then teach all about unions while using phrases such as "robber barons" and "plunderers" to describe business in general, and terms such as "captains of industry" or "entrepreneur" are avoided. If Greek mythology is taught at all, Hercules' exploits are not at all mentioned, and all that is taught are the more narrow labors that were a part of Hercules exploits. Exploit is taught as if it is a pejorative, and labor is taught as a proletariat ideal.

One need only look at the many young peoples texting style in this site and others to fully understand how grammar and spelling have been merely given lip service to rather than taught, and depending upon which school board of which ideology is elected, great works of literature are banned from public schools. The institution of public education may have never been anything more than an institution of political indoctrination, and teaching students how to think for themselves eschewed and in replace of standardized testing is the norm.

Legislatures demand parents either place their children in a state approved private school, or public school, and if they do "allow" home schooling, many states insist that only the legislature has authority to dictate what that curriculum will be. Public schools have not improved education in the U.S. and have graduated, more and more, young people who are ill equipped to deal with the many challenges that face them in their future. Public school teachers have smugly taken to threatening parents with Social Services, demanding that parents medicate their children so they don't have to work as hard dealing with the bright and challenging minds of young people. These public school teachers love to protest and point to how little they are paid, ignoring the fact that if they were to teach in the private sector they would be better paid, but they eschew this for the life of privilege they have relied upon through powerful unions, and the political process, and have done so at the great expense of their students, those students parents, and of public funds.

If the public schools can't figure out how to fix these glaring problems and begin producing institutions that actually teach kids how to think and communicate in a proper way, then it is high time we begin having open discussions about ending this sink hole known as public education and finding a better, more cost effective way to facilitate learning for youth.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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And by massive education reform, I mean strict guidelines on teacher performance. I am a product of public education, I can tell you honestly that from k-12 I never had a teacher who gave a rats butt about their students.

I can remember times when as one of the "smart ones" I was completely ignored and allowed to do my own thing, I was in the gifted program or "gate" program in my school, I never realized how #ty my education was until I got to College and had to take semesters of classes to catch up to what the standards of my College where at.

I can only imagine what the education experience was for children who where not in the "smart" group.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:37 PM
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If we would have listened to President Reagan, we wouldn't even have this problem.

The Department of Education needs to be abolished. Anything they do at a Federal level is duplicated at the State level.

Nowhere in the Constitution is education of citizens even mentioned. source

Education is a local issue. Reread the 10th Amendment.

This nothing more than a payoff to union workers.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by truthseeker1984
 


My opinion should not be considered a personal attack on you. I have liked many of your posts on other subjects. We both are in agreement of many things and even about Unions. As per the support of the Union because one isn't offered a choice, then one should try to get another choice implemented. Places that only employ union members should be made aware of other employees who do not support such practices.

If you were to stand up for your priniciples against the unions, you would have the support of thousands of parents that have their kids enrolled in your school district. Many union members & admins choose to send their kids to voucher related programs or private schools. Yet these same unions wanted an end to voucher programs that would have pulled millions of kids out of public schools.

I think you should make your voice hear and you might not be the only one. But does one have the courage to stand up for their priniciples or woudl one just continue to support the current system. That choice is up to you.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by prionace glauca]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by benrl
And by massive education reform, I mean strict guidelines on teacher performance.


The inherent problem with this, however, is how do you implement this? Do you base it on student grades, do you base it on lesson material given, do you base it on how punctual they are, or how late they stay? There is no easy answer to this. I'm not saying you are, but there are many that blame everything on teachers, from violence in the schools, to drugs, and even teen pregnancy. Where are the parents in all of this? Where are their voices if the teachers are doing such a crappy job?



I am a product of public education, I can tell you honestly that from k-12 I never had a teacher who gave a rats butt about their students.


That is horrible, and I'm sorry that you had to go through that experience. If you had been my student, well, I'm sure you wouldn't be so jaded about it now. I don't blame you though. Your story seems to be more and more true in this day and age.


I can remember times when as one of the "smart ones" I was completely ignored and allowed to do my own thing, I was in the gifted program or "gate" program in my school, I never realized how #ty my education was until I got to College and had to take semesters of classes to catch up to what the standards of my College where at.


I was in the "gifted" program as well, because, well, I was at such a high level in 4th grade that they didn't know what to do with me. You know why I was like that? It was because of my parents. At least in my education, I found that I was very well prepared for college, but I worry about those out there that do not have the benefit of a good district.


I can only imagine what the education experience was for children who where not in the "smart" group.


My youngest sibling had problems throughout her schooling. The only reason that she is passing and graduating in June is the fact that she had afterschool tutoring three times a week to help her. The teachers that she had, did everything that they could for her, but with 25+ kids in the classroom, it's hard to give individual attention to each and every one. Unfortunately, because of budget cuts, this program will be cut, and many students will suffer because of it. The dropout rates will increase. I am positive of it.

I'm starting to realize that I may have had an "atypical" public school experience, and I wish more schools around the country were like mine.


Peace be with you.

-truthseeker



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by prionace glauca
 


I apologize for getting heated up against you about this issue. I am very tired and irate of the system the way it is. Whenever it comes to education, I just get a sore spot, and it really does need to be fixed. The problem is that with only a few hundred voices willing to put their jobs on the line (as I did mine...and I'm sure if I had been a "good little doggy" they probably would have 'found' the money to keep me), not much can be done. The Unions are so ingrained in our society that it is neigh impossible to fight them.

We're seeing the same side of the issue, and talking about it in different ways. How funny is that?



Peace be with you.

-truthseeker



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:52 PM
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the cost for the war in iraq was about 20 secs ago around $804,159,688,370

guess that summ could have been spent on better things , ,



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by zerbot565
the cost for the war in iraq was about 20 secs ago around $804,159,688,370

guess that summ could have been spent on better things , ,


The cost of the Afghanistan war is going to eclipse those numbers of Iraq. Guess who said Afganistan is the good war.

Yes the funds should have been spent at home, but pot calling the kettle black gets us nowhere.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by truthseeker1984
 


Do you know how I am judged at my job?

First there is performance, I have strict quotas and targets I have to meet.

Next, Satisfaction of Clients, reviewed by them and secretly scored on how I treat them.

Followed by resource management, do I use to much of the company dime to get what I need done accomplished.

I don't see how teachers feel they are so hard to be judged, Obviously reform needs to start with what is taught not just by who its taught by. I would almost say teachers stick together as much as Cops do, much like the Blue wall the cops use to stone wall, teachers do the same.

How about this for some reform to start with.

Abolish the grade system that just keep rolling students onward as they age, make it a flat pool of credits, with standards of passing to get those credits, Mix the ages in each class so that yes you may have advance students who passed early, and you may also have older students who still have problems passing, older and younger students would be in the same classes.

As for the teachers, simple have their pay increases made by pass rates (as well as disciplinary action taken by them) Do not allow passing to be judged by the teachers, have a system in place with standards that must be met and proven.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by truthseeker1984
 


Do you know how I am judged at my job?

First there is performance, I have strict quotas and targets I have to meet.

Next, Satisfaction of Clients, reviewed by them and secretly scored on how I treat them.

Followed by resource management, do I use to much of the company dime to get what I need done accomplished.

I don't see how teachers feel they are so hard to be judged, Obviously reform needs to start with what is taught not just by who its taught by. I would almost say teachers stick together as much as Cops do, much like the Blue wall the cops use to stone wall, teachers do the same.

How about this for some reform to start with.

Abolish the grade system that just keep rolling students onward as they age, make it a flat pool of credits, with standards of passing to get those credits, Mix the ages in each class so that yes you may have advance students who passed early, and you may also have older students who still have problems passing, older and younger students would be in the same classes.

As for the teachers, simple have their pay increases made by pass rates (as well as disciplinary action taken by them) Do not allow passing to be judged by the teachers, have a system in place with standards that must be met and proven.


The only problem is that while your results are objective and entirely based on your own personal performance, the job a teacher does can be viewed as subjective and based on more factors than just your efficiency quota and secret client evaluations (although I like that idea...students fill out a survey on how they felt their teacher was..similar to college courses). The factors determining a student's success can be socioeconomic, home life, developmental problems, etc. Should teachers be held responsible if the child just isn't capable of learning the material as fast as others? Should they be held responsible if the child is having trouble learning because of problems at home? It's more than just one factor.

I will agree that some teachers stick together much like cops do, but it's not all of us. The ones that are similar to "professional gangs" were long ago corrupted by the Union. The ones that need saving are the ones that are actually doing their jobs correctly and being subjected to Union rule. Let the ones that have been corrupted rot. Or better yet, make the ones that have been in it for 30+ years retire.

As far as your ideas for reform, I really like those ideas. I have always been against the stupid grading system. I don't know if I entirely agree with the mixed ages, as developmental rates and maturity rates are different between age levels, and it could cause some problems (in a perfect world, it wouldn't because everybody would be there to learn only...unfortunately it doesn't work that way...you know how kids are). I do agree with a general pool of credits and guidelines in which to achieve those credits. What you are proposing sounds very similar to how colleges grade and evaluate students. The only problem I have is with merit based pay. Like I said previously, there are too many factors to contribute to the learning environment. It just can't work.

The only problem I have is: who would come up with these standards? Who would be in charge of evaluating the standards? Surely not the Federal Government. They would choose to push their own agendas.

I have no idea how to fix it, in all honesty. But I like where you were going with the elimination of grades and the credit pool system.


Peace be with you.

-truthseeker



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by truthseeker1984
 


Lol.

I am in sales management, My results come from a team of people who I have very little control of, I have targets that I have to hit which can be swayed by any number of things that are out of my control.

Me: "The economy is bad"

My Boss: "Too bad hit your goal."

Me: "The market is saturated"

My Boss: "Too bad hit your goal"

Me: "Our product this season are crap"

My Boss: "Too bad hit your goal."

Me: "The employees you hired for me are idiots"

My Boss: "Too bad hit your goal."

Sense a theme here?

If I don't hit my goals for three months in a row you know what happens? My butt is fired.

Why is teaching so different, join the rest of us out there who aren't protected by a powerful teaching union, I guarantee 90% of the people here on ATS are expected to perform and judged by measures out of their control, we all seem to survive so can teachers.

AS for who sets the standards, simple how about not graduating people who can't read for a start? I had people in my graduating class that where functionally illiterate, these standards are not that hard to come up with, people will moan and complain if they are too high, how about a percentage system, say if X amount of your students don't pass basic skill test you get disciplined .

Or how about we actually prepare our kids to be productive working adults, set the standards based on the need of the economy and what skills are needed in the work force, take a poll of all the major companies in america and see what skills are most needed by them.


[edit on 24-5-2010 by benrl]

[edit on 24-5-2010 by benrl]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by benrl
 


Okay, that's all well and good, but you have the choice of firing one of your subordinates if they don't perform. Teachers don't have the option of firing students. Plain and simple.


As far as the rest of what you said, I agree. Don't graduate kids that can't read. Start changing the curriculum to be more applicable to the real world. Take polls of major companies and ask what skills they would suggest having. They are all very good ideas, and I didn't disagree with you on a single one of them. The only one I disagree on is the teacher performance issue. I think it should be reworked to an extent, but there are more factors involved than in the business world. In the business world if you have an employee that isn't putting out, well, you fire them. In the education world if you have a student that isn't putting out you can't fire them. An overhaul would have to include mandatory parental meetings and a support system for students who need it. We are, after all, talking about kids, and not businessmen and women.


Peace be with you.

-truthseeker



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 07:34 PM
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I've been married to a teacher for over 23 years. I was dating her when
she graduated Michigan State and began teaching in a relatively small
Michigan town with a population of 30,000.

My wife-to-be wasn't paid very much, but that's not why she went into the
teaching profession. She did it to "Make a Difference", as she used to say.

Over the years, I've watched her "grow" from being an idealistic,
possibility-thinker, to an overworked part-time parent to children who's
parents are too busy working to spend quality time with them. Here we
are in an upper-middle class suburb of Chicago and 11 of her 24 students
(5th grade) speak Spanish as their primary language.

Things sure have changed.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by carewemust
I've been married to a teacher for over 23 years. I was dating her when
she graduated Michigan State and began teaching in a relatively small
Michigan town with a population of 30,000.

My wife-to-be wasn't paid very much, but that's not why she went into the
teaching profession. She did it to "Make a Difference", as she used to say.

Over the years, I've watched her "grow" from being an idealistic,
possibility-thinker, to an overworked part-time parent to children who's
parents are too busy working to spend quality time with them. Here we
are in an upper-middle class suburb of Chicago and 11 of her 24 students
(5th grade) speak Spanish as their primary language.

Things sure have changed.


The system is being abused completely. For every student enrolled in a district that district is now elegible for more taxpayer funds. Most of those funds end up going to admin salaries and very little goes to teacher salaries. The school will not use that money to upgrade its environment unless absolutely necessary.

Why do charter schools succeed where public schools fall. Because charter schools actually pay to have teachers be free thinkers and money is used to improve education, not to grease anyone's pocket.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 11:04 PM
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reply to post by truthseeker1984
 





Okay, that's all well and good, but you have the choice of firing one of your subordinates if they don't perform. Teachers don't have the option of firing students. Plain and simple.


My God! Your posts continue to underscore the very real need to take a hard look at public education and consider the very real possibility that public education be abolished. A teachers students are not subordinates, they are students, that should be treated with the respect that young minds attending a class with the full on intent of learning deserve. Further, in the private sector, teachers most certainly do have an option of recommending a student be expelled from class, (as I am sure a public teacher has this option as well), and even denied further registration in that school. Private schools are about choice, and as such the parents sending their students to a private school have the option of which school to choose, and the school has the option of choosing which students it will accept.




The only one I disagree on is the teacher performance issue. I think it should be reworked to an extent, but there are more factors involved than in the business world.


Of course you do, as you seemingly have no interest at all in entering the private sector and teaching there. In a private school, a teacher is most certainly in the business world and that teachers ability to teach is the product by which that school relies upon to operate a successful business. A fact that clearly escapes you.




In the business world if you have an employee that isn't putting out, well, you fire them. In the education world if you have a student that isn't putting out you can't fire them.


Here you offer the fallacy of ambiguity, or what is more commonly referred to in the business world as; "bait and switch". You speak to employees in the business world, (that would be those who contract their labor for pay), and then hopelessly attempt to frame the student as being such an employee in the public sector, ignoring that the student doesn't get paid for their efforts, it is the teacher, and school administrators who are the employees, and should be just as easily fired in the public sector as they are in the private sector, but typical of the average tax feeder you take the view that public works for you, and not the other way around, and herein lies the problem with much of the public sector and why education should never be entrusted to that sector.




An overhaul would have to include mandatory parental meetings and a support system for students who need it.


This mandatory parental meetings you speak of could only be accomplished in public schools through even more intrusive legislation. What utter and unadulterated arrogance you show. If a teacher can not offer the necessary support system required for a student, then what good are they? By the way, the engaged and passionate teacher will always find ways to facilitate this support system, often times by pairing a student who is doing well with one who isn't and delegating a bit of leadership authority to those students who show such a proclivity to help strengthen this support system. In doing so, the student who is doing well and shows a proclivity towards leadership is better served, as is the student who is not doing so well, but instead you suggest more intrusive legislation that would no doubt require more tax dollars spent.




We are, after all, talking about kids, and not businessmen and women.


Please! You refer to the kids when you believe this rhetoric serves your argument, but let's be clear here, the vast majority of your posts have revealed that what you care about is your own personal self interest. This proclivity towards self interest is often what the public sector loves to ridicule the private sector for, but there should be no doubt that you care far more for your own self interest than that of any kid. You have blamed the kids for the failures of public schools, you have blamed the parents, and you have steadfastly refused to accept any responsibility for this failure yourself. You stand as the poster teacher for why public schools should be abolished. You offer nothing of value in the way of education, and only see the profession of teaching in terms of what it can do for you.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]



posted on May, 25 2010 @ 08:19 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 



My God! Your posts continue to underscore the very real need to take a hard look at public education and consider the very real possibility that public education be abolished. A teachers students are not subordinates, they are students, that should be treated with the respect that young minds attending a class with the full on intent of learning deserve.


I was merely making a point, friend, nothing more. Do you actually think that I believe that? Students are students (at least most of them). You should spend a day or two in an inner city classroom and then come back and share what you have experienced. Many are like de-militarized zones. As far as treating them with respect, absolutely, but do you think many actually want to learn? With all the distractions in the world, what makes the child want to sit in a classroom for eight hours a day? In a perfect world, well, they would, but this isn't perfect. I just love how all you public school teacher bashers lump us into one category.


(as I am sure a public teacher has this option as well)


False.


Of course you do, as you seemingly have no interest at all in entering the private sector and teaching there.


False again. I would actually like better to go into the private sector, but unfortunately my degree is specialized and many private schools don't offer classes for my particular subject. I think going into private teaching would be much better. One isn't dealing with Unions and possibly corrupt administration.


This mandatory parental meetings you speak of could only be accomplished in public schools through even more intrusive legislation. What utter and unadulterated arrogance you show.


Arrogance? Really? Have you looked outside your window lately?! Do you know how many kids I have worked with that have come from drug homes where mommy has a new boyfriend every night, or daddy beats me, or what have you? If parents are going to use us as babysitters to teach their children everything that they should have taught them before entering school, then maybe the parents need to be taught as well. Some just plain don't know how to be parents. Intrusive legislation? It wouldn't have to come to that if parents actually took the time to care about their kids, but many times, they do not.


Please! You refer to the kids when you believe this rhetoric serves your argument, but let's be clear here, the vast majority of your posts have revealed that what you care about is your own personal self interest. This proclivity towards self interest is often what the public sector loves to ridicule the private sector for, but there should be no doubt that you care far more for your own self interest than that of any kid. You have blamed the kids for the failures of public schools, you have blamed the parents, and you have steadfastly refused to accept any responsibility for this failure yourself. You stand as the poster teacher for why public schools should be abolished. You offer nothing of value in the way of education, and only see the profession of teaching in terms of what it can do for you.


Wow, you just put an awful lot of words in my mouth that, well, I don't take very kindly to. You have NO idea of my motivations. Hell, you don't even know ME! How have my posts shown my own self interest? Because I was defending my position as a teacher? I do it because of the kids. I don't give a crap about the money. I have said that before. No, I do not use the "kids" rhetoric to better serve my argument. So far you have done nothing but use brute force tactics to try and prove a point. And you will win most likely, because it seems that the "public" is out for blood from all public workers. Mind you, I'm one of you 'taxpayers' and I want to see change in public education as well.

And no, I did NOT say that I blame kids for the failure of public schools. Not once in any of my posts did I say that. You twist and distort words for your own arguments, and it makes me quite pissed off. And you're damn right I don't take any responsibility, because the system was broken before I entered it. But I'll have you know that my kids regularly scored the top test scores in the school: time after time after time. So you can sit there with your false allegations from the comfort of your computer. But you don't know who I am and you do not know my motivations.

I'm done with this thread. It's another g-ddarned witch hunt.


Peace be with you.

-truthseeker



posted on May, 25 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by truthseeker1984
 


Truthseeker, I have no doubt that you are feeling beat up by the public as a teacher, and I am pleased to learn that you would rather teach in the private sector and urge you to go back to school and get the degree you need to make that possible. Rather than take your words and put them under a microscope, I will just simply write, and speak to my firm beliefs of why I think the public school system should be done away with.

First, allow me to speak to the personal experience. I am a freelance writer who struggles myself to get published, and to find those gigs that pay enough to pay the bills. I am business for myself, so I am in that private sector, and indeed, there are many businesses out there, that when looking of a freelance writer, have the gall to actually want to treat that freelance writer as an employee, and what's worse pay very little for that contract. Of course, those businesses who do this, I often see them advertising time and time again in the sources I rely upon to gain freelance work, so it is clear to me, if not them, that their gall is wasted effort. That said, one of the things I do to supplement my income is tutor college students.

I've been tutoring for several years now, and the many of the college students I get come from the inner city. I live in a large metropolis, that is over 9 million in population. A state within a state, is where I live, and it is the land of fantasy and overbearing progressive attitudes. I am shocked at the texts book that are thrust upon these young people, so biased in their "information", so sleight in their actual data, that is undeniable that the indoctrination of students continues well into higher education. The students I tutor begin sessions with me absolutely hating the classes they are taking, and end loving them, not because I was able to show them how great their teacher really was, but because I was able to show them how easy it is to think for ones self.

Before I continue describing my own experience as a tutor, I should point out I have a several clients that are businesses that keep me on retainer as a freelance writer, and use me for a variety of reasons, including press releases, website and advertising copy. In website copy, SEO's and key words, and tags are important when writing this copy. Something I have discovered in writing website copy with SEO's in mind is that the majority of people rely on two words for their search engines to find the information they are looking for. This means a majority of students will rely upon only two word phrases and keywords when using the internet to do their research. I can't tell you, when tutoring these students, the utter astonishment they have when I type in a complex question looking for specific information to help them find what they are looking for, and I can't tell you how many times I have heard; "I would have never thought of that!"

That these students are so willing to declare that they would never have thought of something so simple is just one of the battles I face in taking a D or average student and guiding them to becoming A students. Teaching these students that they are infinitely smarter than anyone has ever given them credit for being is the most important battle, and one I enjoy immensely fighting. Showing them that the internet can indeed handle more than simplistic two work phrases in search engines is an important victory that only underscores my assertion that these students are indeed wise, and only need remember that.

The next battle I have to win, in order to get these frustrated students to a point where they are equipped to navigate the classrooms of which they find to be so hostile towards them, is to teach them that their professors are only human, and all too often, they are arrogant souls who insist on being seen as Shamanic and act as all priest class do, with an attitude of superiority based upon mystical incantations that are intended to confuse and confound, and not inform. This is a precarious battle that need be won, and in teaching these college students that their professors may be behind the curve, must be balanced with making sure these students understand who will be giving them the grades.

Without fail, one of the common denominators with these frustrated students who come to me looking for ways to improve their grades, is that they are bored with what they are being taught. They are often times bored, not because the subject matter is boring, but because of how the professor is presenting the subject matter. Further, when that professor begins spewing their biased opinions, (whether it be right or left wing biased), at the expense of knowledge they are quite naturally alienating those students who simply don't agree with their bias, but the education system being what it is, they can not just answer a question on a test with what they believe to be the truth is, they are forced to answer this question based upon what the teacher believes the truth is. Sometimes the truth is not what the professor thinks it is, and only the slightest of research will reveal that to a student, but since they want a good grade, it is prudent to merely answer the question in a way that appeases their professor.

This precarious balance is only my problem, because it is the students problem. However, it is far better to find ways to get that student engaged in their class, than allow them to believe that what is being taught has no value. Thus, it is important to get these students to understand that when they have a professor who is indoctrinating instead of teaching, that they have to survive the indoctrination and keep the knowledge they've gained to themselves, only waiting for the best opportunities that arise in class to speak up and offer what they've learned in hopes that a discussion will ensue. Sometimes, when seizing these opportunities, students will meet with me for their next session thrilled that a discussion was indeed allowed, and that what ensued was a lively debate that engaged all the students in the class. These students are supremely proud that they had something to do with that lively engagement, and are clearly excited about their next class.

Even so, much of the grading system is based upon testing, and often where essays, term papers and thesis' are involved, it is important not to take on a view point contrary to the professors unless that student is fully prepared to defend their position with reason, and alacrity. As my students eyes open and the become more awake, they begin to fully understand this dilemma, and some will take up the challenge, and defend their positions where others will simply take the path of least resistance and cater to their professors viewpoint in order to not risk their grade. Both are valid options in my opinion, but I can't help be proud of those who choose to take their own views and strongly defend them. For this reason, one of my final lessons is teaching students where to find the necessary arbitration made available to them, if it appears that they were unfairly denied the grade they earned simply because they took a contrary view to that of the professor.

Of the students I have tutored, five of them have had to rely upon arbitration to get the A's they deserved, and in each instance, they won their cases, not just getting their A's but learning a huge lesson about politics, and the empowerment that comes with fighting the good fight. Ironically, often times I will have done my job well enough, that these students no longer need a tutor and are equipped with the basic knowledge they need to navigate college on their own. To their credit, many will refer other students to me who are having the problems they once had, and I keep fairly busy accepting students to tutor.

I am not educated as a teacher, I certainly have no degree or accreditation to be tutor, I stumbled upon the work, and that part of my business has steadily grown based upon my reputation, and of course, the dire need for tutoring because of the undeniable failure of public schools that have graduated kids ill equipped to handle their future. I have never had a student from a private school seek out my services, and that is merely anecdotal, but an interesting phenomenon nonetheless.

In the brief amount of space I have left in this post, I would like to quickly address the "taxfeeder" quotient, as yes, those who rely upon taxes for survival pay taxes too, but there are far too many who rely on these taxes who continually argue that more taxation is the answer, and that is a serious problem that reveals a gross conflict of interest. There is also the fact that there are too many children being shoved into schools just to be babysat, but I would argue this is less the parents fault than the mandatory laws that insist that children must be in school. The only children that must be in school are then ones that want to be there, and those who don't should not be there taking up both teachers and students valuable time.

I would like to close in stating that I am hard on public teachers, and am so for many reasons, but in being hard on them, I will often generalize and categorize them all as being government sycophants instead of teachers. Truthseeker, I recognize your passion for teaching, and while I may not agree with you assessment of the problem with the public school system, what does it matter? Find that private school that you can use to facilitate not just your passion for knowledge, but your students as well. If I can charge money to tutor kids with no degree, or accreditation to do so, surely you can find that teaching job that fits your skills and the private schools needs. Join me brother, in doing away with government tyranny, and teach as you were meant to.




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