South Korea: North "Will Pay" for Torpedo Attack

South Korea: North "Will Pay" for Torpedo Attack

www.foxnews.com

SEOUL, South Korea -- South Korea's president said Monday his nation will no longer tolerate North Korea's "brutality" and said the regime would pay for a surprise torpedo attack that killed 46 South Korean sailors.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Sorry mods if this isn't in the right place, feel free to relocate...

So is this it boys and girls? The North has said time and again how they would literally blow S. Korea off the map if they even attempted to grow a backbone... and now, by association they're throwing us in the fire along with them...

Say what you want, but I don't see any way out of this for the U.S. unless Obama immediately pulls our troops out and tells Seoul "Good luck."

I don't know. It would be rediculously cowardly for Obama to turn his back on the S. Koreans in the face of an attack by Kim Jong-Il, but we're spread so unnecessarily thin militarily... I always thought the North and South would play Cowboys & Indians 'til the second coming. Now? Now I'm beginning to see a conflict as inevitable... and approaching fast.

What do you guys think? Are we at the breaking point now?

www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

And so the situation intensifies :

If North Korea does that, according to the new SK military doctrine against NK, they will retaliate and bomb the place where the shooting came from.

N.Korea threatens to fire at South equipment at border

North Korea threatened on Monday to fire at South Korean equipment if it is set up at their heavily armed border to broadcast anti-Pyongyang messages, and vowed to take stronger measures if Seoul escalated tensions.

The warnings came in a statement from a military commander carried by the North's KCNA news agency.

South Korea said on Monday it would resume loudspeaker broadcasts at the border that had been suspended for six years, as part of its punishment toward the North for the sinking of one of its navy ships.

Either NK bluff is gonna be called once again, or the situation will turn ugly very fast.

I think now is the closer they've been to war in a LONG time...

[edit on 24-5-2010 by Vitchilo]

I don't know... I honestly don't know. For a very long time I've thought that N. Korea was all bark and no bite... but that was back when Seoul had no reason to be as livid as they are now. I just have a sneaking suspicion that this time around, lil' Kimmy might actually take the leash off his dogs - if this goes to the Security Council and if the U.S. is "consulted," he's going to feel painted into a corner.

reply to post by Legion2112


The question is... who's gonna let his bluff be called? South Korea? By changing it's military doctrine, they now have to respond to any North Korean aggression/attack...

Or North Korea's leadership, Kim Jong-Il who must show who is boss in North Korea otherwise his son won't be able to have access to the throne... But according to many analysts, to show who's boss, Kim needs to do things like he did with the sinking of the boat... but he cannot do that anymore...

So will Kim back down and his family loses the succession... or will he risks it all and hope that SK backs down and take it?

Or will China understand that and intervene before Kim starts a war with SK?

Kim backs down, he loses everything and his family loses everything. Lee backs down, his political career is finished, he's hated, he's seen as weak and he's possibly seen as a traitor....

Both sides are fighting for their lives... so I guess this might be it.

China has contingencies plans of invading North Korea and taking it over in case of Kim going nuts or the regime collapsing... so hopefully that won't be necessary. (this is according to official Chinese news, reported in 2006)

[edit on 24-5-2010 by Vitchilo]

My uncle fought in the Korean War and he said to me growing up, if WWIII comes about in our lifetime it will start in the Korean Peninsula.

Seriously this is NOT GOOD.

They have been waiting to pull triggers here for decades over and over, the war hasn't ever really ended.

ARG!

OK I am calm now. But last of all things, we need is Kim going out like a bad day bank robber with a WHOLE ARMY and NUKES behind him!

I need to step away from the keys for a moment and read thease articles.

reply to post by Vitchilo


I don't know man, I'm praying for Chinese intervention here... with their economy approaching the U.S. financial sector's "bubble" status before the big tank, I don't think they can afford to allow anything that destabilizing happening to their south...

At the same time, I'm beginning to think that Kim's Beijing trip may have had more to do with garnering support - you can't peg the Chinese, it seems like they always have an end-around that surprises the hell out of you.

The only thing I do know is that with the level of naval power both we and the Chinese have in that tiny sector of ocean, things could get fubar real quick if even one person gets too itchy with their trigger finger.

reply to post by Vitchilo


As far as I have been informed, CHINA does NOT support the SK invasion is this info true?

Originally posted by theability
reply to post by Vitchilo

 

As far as I have been informed, CHINA does NOT support the SK invasion is this info true?

Officially no... because they are against war...

Unofficially... you never know. IMO they sure as hell don't want a United Korea on their border.

The only things they want are either : status quo, North Korea under their occupation or all of Korea under their occupation.

What they don't want : NATO controlling the north and putting military bases on their border or United Korea.

And for the nukes... unless they received exterior help from Iran, Pakistan or China, North Korea CANNOT launch a nuke in the South either by artillery or missile.

What they can do is... Smuggle it there. Put it on a boat and send it to the US-SK fleet. Put it underwater as a mine until the US-SK fleet pass. Dig under the border and blow it up just under the border. If the South invades, just let one near the border and when the South troops reach it, blow it up...

But if they received help from outside and can mount it on an artillery tube or a short range-medium range missile, or a plane... god help us all.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by Vitchilo]

Another move by the South Koreans'

South Korea suspends trade with N. Korea

The pieces start to fall. Like dominos.

Next what?

The verbal rhetoric on the Korean peninsula has always been a bit one sided, with Kim Jong Il coming every now and then and talking about nuclear war and military strikes and so on. However, this time around the rhetoric is coming from the South Korean and American side as well. Sinking of the South Korean warship proved to be the proverbial last straw and now Lee Myung Bak has virtually ended almost all of the sunshine policies with North Korea.

As far as the steps that were announced today are concerned, I don't think that most of them would have an impact on North Korea. 1. Suspension of trade ties between South and North Korea. There was not much trade happening anyways earlier between the two Koreas so I don't find this step to be that harsh. 2. Blocking the entry of North Korean ships in South Korean waters. North Korea receives most of its aid from China .North Korea is not as dependent on cargo trade through sea waters as Iran is. So except for using the sea routes for weapons or missile components proliferation, the blockade of North Korean ships in South Korean waters don't appear to be having any major impact. 3. Taking North Korea to U.N security council. Here, China would step in and would try to veto any significantly tough sanctions.

reply to post by Vitchilo

What they don't want : NATO controlling the north and putting military bases on their border or United Korea.

You know that makes to much sense, all in all, China would have to get involved. They'd rather as you say have a line of demarkation bewteen them and the US.

BUT...
Now who wants to have the sleeping giant awoken? China has had such time at isolationalism, who knows their future agenda. I sure don't.

Part of the problem is that NK is losing control over its people. There has been too much cross-border interaction with the Chinese. Too many smuggled DVDs and cellphone images. The propaganda-matrix of illusions that NK has used to control its population for decades is no longer tenable as more and more people are getting a look at the outside world.

Given this, the only way the NK govt can maintain control is through creating military threats to bind its people together. It makes for a desperate, dangerous situtaion.

reply to post by order in chaos


I agree with your stance but what about itchy trigger fingers on the DMZ?

There is enough land mines there to arm a small military.

I'd say the DMZ tensions are as high as they have been in years.

A few questions that I have

Does China really want to occupy NK given just how bad things are in NK ?

Is it not in China's best interest to keep the status quo ?

What can the South really do , considering what an all out war would mean to the South ?

If NK is locked in the stone age , just where will we bomb them back to ?

Now the conspiracy side of me tells me that China will simply poison little Kim then lay down the law to the new ruler , whoever that might be .

[edit on 24-5-2010 by Max_TO]

Why is it I remember South Korea (SK) telling the world that
North Korea (DPRK) had nothing to do with their ship,
that it was munitions that blew on the bottom deck

DPRK said see we didin't do it

SK kept saying DPRK had nothing to do with it.

Then other nations kept at SK to check the ship
but they insisted that DPRK had nothing to do with it

THEN a few days later all the sudden they were like yea lets lift the ship
and find out what it is. Then it turned into the DPRK sank the ship.

really what did I miss?

Originally posted by Vitchilo
And so the situation intensifies :

If North Korea does that, according to the new SK military doctrine against NK, they will retaliate and bomb the place where the shooting came from.

N.Korea threatens to fire at South equipment at border

North Korea threatened on Monday to fire at South Korean equipment if it is set up at their heavily armed border to broadcast anti-Pyongyang messages, and vowed to take stronger measures if Seoul escalated tensions.

The warnings came in a statement from a military commander carried by the North's KCNA news agency.

South Korea said on Monday it would resume loudspeaker broadcasts at the border that had been suspended for six years, as part of its punishment toward the North for the sinking of one of its navy ships.

Either NK bluff is gonna be called once again, or the situation will turn ugly very fast.

I think now is the closer they've been to war in a LONG time...

[edit on 24-5-2010 by Vitchilo]

Now that is one potentially explosive situation that could easily go out of control. Even a few days back, Hillary Clinton mentioned that the U.S and South Korea would increase their efforts in "psychological warfare". E.g. initiating anti Kim Jong Il propaganda from outside the border as well as by using other covert means. As you mentioned perfectly, this time around, the political future of the leaders of both North and South Korea is at stake and that makes the situation even more dicey.

Scenario: South Korea initiates a propaganda campaign against the North. Now if North Korea doesn't respond, Kim Jong Il's generals, who play a very important role in the country's affairs, could use this occasion to remove the Kim dynasty from the helm of affairs. The Kim dynasty would have no other option but to respond back and thereby retain the political grip over its country.

If North Korea responds back and if South responds with inaction, then that could put Lee Myung Bak's political career in great trouble.

reply to post by Max_TO

Does China really want to occupy NK given just how bad things are in NK ?

If it means they won't all come to China then yes. In short term, it would be good for China... but if the chinese troops stay there, China will suffer a huge backlash from both South and North Korea... so either China will have to face a United Korea who hate China... or China will have to start killing Koreans... and that won't make them love China either.

Is it not in China's best interest to keep the status quo ?

Yes it is.

What can the South really do , considering what an all out war would mean to the South ?

The South should :
- Build underground shelters in Seoul like Israel have (should have been done decades ago)
- Diplomacy with China to either force them to invade NK from the North, regime change, put sanctions on them, create teams of north koreans expatriate, train them, arm them and send them to overthrow the regime and/or flood NK with outside information so the people revolt.
- Sign a peace treaty with the North

The whole situation is a mess.

IMO the best course of action would be that if the situation is too close to war, China is financed and armed covertly by the UN/SK/China, they invade North Korea with only Chinese troops from the North, they take Pyongyang. At the same time, the US and the South bomb the border with crates of food. Then the North Korean troops surrender to their SK brothers. Then the South occupies the North. China leaves. The US leaves the whole Korean peninsula. A United Korea stands. United Korea signs an Independent treaty saying they will not ally with either NATO or the SCO. They sign a peace treaty with the US and China.

Problem solved.

If NK is locked in the stone age , just where will we bomb them back to ?

To the future?

[edit on 24-5-2010 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by theability
reply to post by order in chaos

 

I agree with your stance but what about itchy trigger fingers on the DMZ?

There is enough land mines there to arm a small military.

I'd say the DMZ tensions are as high as they have been in years.

That is exactly the situation that the state department, Beijing and other world powers might be fearing the most. The reason is that once the first shot is fired by either side, then the situation reaches a new level, especially in the context of current scenario. Earlier, there have been some intermittent border skirmishes between the two Koreas but they were never politicized a lot and hence the situation calmed down eventually. Now, the political leadership of South Korea has used an unprecedented verbal rhetoric and thus they must back their words with actions.

Originally posted by EvilBat
Why is it I remember South Korea (SK) telling the world that
North Korea (DPRK) had nothing to do with their ship,
that it was munitions that blew on the bottom deck

DPRK said see we didin't do it

SK kept saying DPRK had nothing to do with it.

Then other nations kept at SK to check the ship
but they insisted that DPRK had nothing to do with it

THEN a few days later all the sudden they were like yea lets lift the ship
and find out what it is. Then it turned into the DPRK sank the ship.

really what did I miss?

Now that is the exact chronology of events that have played out since the sinking of warship. Initially, the South Korean government was giving out a variety of reasons such as munition explosion and so on. In other words, they tried to shift the blame away from the DPRK. Then the South Korean government initiated a probe to investigate the events. The situation was gradually calming down. However, in the past few days, the rhetoric from the South Korean and American side has increased rapidly.