Chimpanzee vs Bonobo - Which team are you on?

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posted on May, 17 2010 @ 11:42 PM
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Chimpanzees are the closest animal to us, our DNA is around 94% the same. Few people realize though that there are 2 main types of chimpanzees, the common chimpanzee and the pygmy chimpanzee, aka the Bonobo! Learn more about each animal below!


Introduction - Two Kinds of Chimpanzees


Around 2 million years ago, the Congo River formed and seperated ancient Chimpanzees across the river. To the North the Common Chimpanzee evolved, living along side the large Gorillas whom they had to compete against for food. Since the Gorillas are such large apes they mainly stuck to the ground. This left the Common Chimpanzees to find most of their food high in the trees, which caused more problems that i will explain later on.



The chimpanzees that were living south of the Congo river were lucky to live in a habitat with no other apes to compete with for food, meaning they could easily find food on the ground. This advantage let these chimpanzees evolve into a new sub-species called the Bonobos. With their long and slender arms and plenty of food to find, the bonobos started to walk upright so they could carry more food back to safety. This simple divide of the congo river made an incredible animal, the BONOBOS!



In this thread i will use a series of videos to help show you the differences between the bonobos and common chimpanzees. The first video will introduce you to the human-like bonobos, showing you their need for sex and their skills at walking upright and will also touch on the contemplative and spiritual chimpanzees:


Bonobos - Make Love, Not War


In the bonobo socieites, Women RULE! Although there are Alpha Males, the females are really the ones in charge. Unlike the common chimpanzees, the male offspring will always stay with the mother. When females become adults it is time for them to leave the home and find another bonobo group to live with. Here is a short 1:17 video to show you how manly the women can be!


The Great Upright Walking Chimpanzees

The Bonobos are masters at walking upright. Because of their safe habitat, they use their hands to carry food while the common chimpanzees mainly use their hands to help them walk. The following video will show upright walking bonobos and showing you a female "displaying". Displaying is mainly done by males in the ape world, and in the human world too! It is a way of showing off to the other apes around, letting them know who is boss. Short video at 2:22


Bonobo Sex - They Can't Get Enough!
There is something special about Bonobos, they are the only other animal besides humans that have sex for pleasure. Not only that, they will use sex to relieve stress, solve problems or just for fun! Even more amazing, the bonobos will commonly have female on female sex, male on male, group sex, french kiss, oral sex and whatever else you want to imagine, sexually! The following video will show you how difficult it is to study the chimpanzees in the wild and will show you a little bonobo on bonobo sex! Long video at 7:22


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Chimpanees - Masters of War



Now that you are familiar with the Bonobos, it's time to meet the common chimpanzees. These creatures are savage animals! Forget that peace and love hippy bull crap, these guys are warriors. In a macho male ruled world, hunting other animals and murdering trespassing chimpanzees is a must.

Make War, Not Love

One of the most amazing thing about the chimpanzees is their ability to come together as a troop of all male warriors and patrol their neighborhood. They quietly sneak around the forest, listening for the sounds of chimpanzees that are not in their group. Watch this amazing video to see a patrol party in action, if you are squimish do not watch the last 20 seconds after they say "luckily one got away". Medium length video at 3:55


Even more amazing is their ability to hunt small monkeys. The chimpanzees will form small hunting groups similar to the patrol groups and set out to find their targets. Once acquired, they each have their own duty in the hunt. In the following video you will see a truly remarkable hunt that is simply jaw dropping. Medium length, 4:00 long:


Chimpanzee Sex - Strictly Business!
The common chimpanzee, unlike the bonobos, rarely have sex. The alpha male get's to have sex with all the females in the group, but it only happens when the female is ready. Sex is not for pleasure and there are politics involved. Watch how awkward and ritualistic sex is in the common chimpanzee world. Short video 2:22


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Chimpanzee Intelligence - Almost Human



So how smart are chimpanzees? Pretty damn smart. Their visual memory could be better than humans as the following video shows.


Many wonderful examples of chimpanzee culture and traditions, and how they differ between groups of chimps, as well as develop and change over time. This video shows chimpanzees engaging in learned termite hunting, bone picks for digging out bone marrow, sponges, herbal medicine, kissing, saluting/shaking hands, and leaf-tearing to signal others for grooming.




Summary - Which Team Are You On?


So what should you make of all of this? I hope you have learned how intelligent and human like chimpanzees and bonobos are. I believe that by studying these fascinating creatures, you can understand human behavior even better. I think it shows how important women are in a society and also how important it is to socialize and express love and affection to help bring peace.

So i must ask you, which team are you on?

Team Chimpanzee, or Team Bonobo?


I want to end this thread with a poster i made and a few of my favorite chimpanzee photos that i have taken at various zoos while observing their behavior. Take care everyone and feel free to ask any questions!

One of my favorite Jane Goodall quotes..
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Only if you understand, can we care.
Only if we care, will we help.
Only if we help, shall they be saved.

- Jane Goodall
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Jane Goodall Quote - Poster - Photo by me


Goodbye!


all photos and photos in chimpanzee vs bonobo poster by me! Maps were not done by myself
[edit on 17-5-2010 by BeastMaster2012]

[edit on 18-5-2010 by BeastMaster2012]




posted on May, 17 2010 @ 11:44 PM
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Here are some more of my chimpanzee photos that i have taken over the last few years while observing them at various zoos. One day i hope to visit them in the wild! I will slowly add the images to this post, i need a break! about 2 hours ago i almost finished making the original post but accidentally hit the back button.. i almost turned into an angry common chimpanzee!

Chimpanzee dreams of flying? - this is one of my favorite photos i have taken!


Chimpanzee wearing cloth


Swinging Chimpanzee


Happy Chimpanzee


Cute Chimpanzee Begging Face


Chimpanzee telling a story?


Chimpanzee throwing Sand

Bonobo Swinging Dismount

Bonobo Drinking Water

Chimpanzee handing me a twig

Chimpanzee hug walk

Myself with Chimpanzee as a kid - maybe this is why i love the chimpanzees so much? Also could our outfits be any gayer?



[edit on 17-5-2010 by BeastMaster2012]



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:46 AM
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Beastmaster that's just incredible. Well done, snf!

I had an anthropology proff once who hypothesized that humanity would be a peace loving and very calm race of beings if our women were the ones in power. She was suggesting that we would live more like the bonobos do in such a case and the bonobo society was the basis for her logic.

The bonobos are are the only other primates who mate in the "missionary position" and the discovery of this fact back in the days of Darwin, or just after, I forget, sent shockwaves through nineteenth and twentieth century England.

There is an amazing piece about bonobo sexuality that I found online a while back. It's incredibly informative, but has some foul language. The author was quite erudite, but like me has a rather foul mouth. I have been wanting to post it on ATS, but I don't know if it's ok due to the language. It shows the bonobo sexuality and compares it to humanity. The bonobos also demonstrate a natural inclination towards homo-erotic and/or bisexual behaviors. Maybe I can post it with a mature content warning to add to this very informative thread of yours.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by dragonsmusic
 


Thanks! I would love to see what you are talking about. I really think that the bonobos are an example of how life could be if woman were in charge. I think this also says a lot about the importance of sexual release. If you are having sex everyday i am sure you are a lot less stressful.

Can you make a comparison between western society and the middle east? Which would be the bonobos and which would be the chimpanzees? I think about this a lot.

The sexual positions are probably the most interesting thing about the bonobos, and how frequent they have sex. There are so few bonobos in captivity and the main reason is because you have to have a family of all girls because if there are non family members they will probably just have sex all day and in America they don't want their kids seeing these "monkeys" that look like humans having sex just like humans, it's a hard thing to explain!

Compared to the common chimpanzees, who i have probably watched a group in Baltimore for over 300+ hours and i have only seen sex only 2 times. I have seen the male's masterbating though, that was a very weird experience.

And one last thing about animals and sex, Orangutans are also great lovers. The bonobos may due it in multiple positions but they tend to have sex in short bursts, only lasting a few seconds but i watched two Orangutans go at it for around 5 minutes. Not only that, the female was on top of the male who was on his back! Even stranger, the male was staring at me the whole time! www.flickr.com...

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Anyways, i forgot to add this video. This is a video of Sue Savage-Rumbaugh giving a TED speach. She is the caretaker of Kanzi, the bonobo that can understand english and pretty much communicate with humans using the lexigram language. It is probably the most amazing bonobo you will ever see. This video is excellent, it's long but i highly recommend it! Let me first show you a video of Kanzi showing off her amazing english comprehension skills to pique your interest before you watch the TED documentary!

en.wikipedia.org...
www.ted.com...

This is Kanzi who shows off her intelligence:


Sue Savage-Rumbaugh on TED talking about Kanzi and bonobos



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 09:06 AM
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Bonobos are awesome, chimps can be too, but they can also be very dangerous and mean. Humans seem to have traits very similar to both - we have the violent and the loving sides to us - often in the very same person. It's like we're trapped between the two different basic behavioral patterns of these two species.

I noticed those pictures came from the Maryland Zoo (formerly the Baltimore Zoo). It's nice to see they apparently now have a habitat for their primates. When I was growing up in Baltimore ('70s and '80s), they had a horrifying "Monkey House," with all manner of monkeys and apes packed into tiny crates and cages behind glass. I remember one particularly sad, sad orang. who would just sit there glumly in his prison cell staring eternally at the ground in front of him. That sort of thing just doesn't fly anymore, it was way too cruel.

The elephant house was a similar horror when I was a kid, with one, lone magnificent beast in a big cage, with one of its legs shackled by a massive chain. The first habitat area the zoo made was for their lions, and it was fantastic. They had also been in small cages, but in the new habitat they could roam around and run and play and were much, MUCH happier. There were sections for other African animals, too: giraffes, I particularly remember.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by BeastMaster2012
 


Beast, thanks for that great post. OK, I have found it. I am posting it purely from a scientific perspective and it is not meant to offend anyone in any way. Warning, mature language :
shoutwire.com...
On Bonobo and Human Sexuality



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by dragonsmusic
 


lol thanks for he link, i was going to post that youtube video "Let's talk about sex" as a humor video at the end but it was wayyy to graphic.. it is pretty much porn, lol. I ofcourse don't mind, but some will find it disturbing, but hey we are all just animals!

Anyways, i liked this part of your link:


The split between the human line of ancestry and the line of the chimpanzee and the bonobo is believed to have occurred a mere eight million years ago. The subsequent divergence of the chimpanzee and the bonobo lines came much later, perhaps prompted by the chimpanzee's need to adapt to relatively open, dry habitats.

In contrast, bonobos probably never left the protection of the trees. As such bonobo may have undergone less transformation than either humans or chimpanzees. It could most closely resemble the common ancestor of all three modern species. It is suggested that the animal might be most similar to the primogenitor, since its anatomy is less specialized than is the chimpanzee's. Bonobo body proportions have been compared with those of the australopithecines, a form of prehuman. When the apes stand or walk upright, they look as if they stepped straight out of an artist's impression of early hominids.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 11:09 AM
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Very cool - but don't forget the Bili!!

Wikipedia - Bili Ape

aka the...

The Bondo Mystery Apes



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by Frogs
 


Ahh yes, i forgot about the Bili chimpanzees! Here is a possible video of one in captivity



These chimpanzees were sadly transported shortly after this video was shot to an institute in Texas. Kermit died on the way there due to lack of proper care.. it is very sad news and one can make a conspiracy out of this.

DNA was taken from these large chimps but i have yet to find a result from them. I found this from the myspace page for KermitsCommunity. The website is down because these were probably people very emotionally distraught over the whole situation and didn't want to continue being reminded of kermit's death every day updating the site.


Those who met Kermit were always in awe of his size, intimidated by his displays, and captivated when they saw his soft side. He was often seen with his thumb in his mouth while watching television. He was a vulnerable, sensitive chimpanzee who just wanted everyone in his family to get along. On February 27, 2006, Kermit and the rest of his chimpanzee family were loaded onto a truck and shipped from OSU to Primarily Primates where they were ill equipped to care for animals but would not admit it. When the chimps arrived at this horrible place on March 1, an unqualified veterinarian improperly sedated Kermit and then left him unattended in his small transport cage. Kermit's head slumped over and he suffocated. Kermit trusted people to care for him and in the end he was betrayed. The people responsible have yet to accept responsibility. Until all humans recognize that the lives of chimpanzees have value independent of people's self-interests, ideological commitments, or egos, more unnecessary deaths will occur. Kermit's death was preventable and tragic.


www.myspace.com...

Anyways, i emailed a person who took the DNA of kermit and hope to get a response, if so i will let you guys know. Thanks for mentioning the Bili chimps!



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:48 PM
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Bonobos are a chimpanzee. They are both Pan. There are two common chimps and one bonobo type.

Why would you need to be on a "team?"

What you are seeing here is that our closest relative species span the same cultural spectrums that we do.

However what I find most interesting is that regardless, neither species shows a signficant tendency towards generational advancement. In both species, males don't pass along information.

By that I mean, if you teach language to either male Pan types, they don't teach it to any other member even if it is their children. Females will sometimes pass knowledge on.

In either of these models of gender-bias, the amount of information passing from generations remains fairly consistently similar. Neither is showing any advantage over millions of years.

There is a lesson in that me thinks.

[edit on 2010/5/18 by Aeons]



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 01:52 PM
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I wonder how different this thread would be if you made it 100 years from now. I hope you eat plenty of veggies, because I fully expect you to make it happen my friend. Once again, very good work and much appreciated.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 02:21 PM
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Very informitive OP,

Is there any DNA specialists out there that can compare the DNA differences of the two chimp classes verses the modern man

We know that there is 20% or so difference of our DNA is different from chimps\bonobo's

My question is Is the 20% difference, The same difference in both chimps in question(or is TPTB hiding this from us)We only know there is a difference.We as common citizens do not know if there is a difference of DNA between the two groups in question,How can I find out if there is a difference between the two group's DNA.

WE share the same love\war mentality together as they do seperate

From a scientific point of view; Why could we not be a hybred of both chimps in question?

If one of the chimps crossed over the congo into the bonobo territory and accepted into the bonobo's clan then a sub species would be created where one or more chimp\bonobo babies learning both love\war mentality.I use this example because we know the chimp side would kill the outsider\bonobo.

It is not easy to word this without there being a confusion

Please stick to the point presented not my spelling.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 02:27 PM
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I'd also like to point out that the "societal" type differences observed in the two main Pan species are mostly characterizations that do not bear out in the wild observations.



Stanford, C. B. 2000. The brutal ape vs. the sexy ape? American Scientist 88, 110-112.

Stanford noted data which indicates bonobos are not obviously more sexual than chimps, that about half of the inter-community encounters observed in one population were aggressive, and that extensive meat-eating and meat-sharing have now been observed in bonobos.



The characterizatons are mainly based on human-gender conceptions being projected onto the Pan species.

Apparently scientists aren't any more capable of detecting their own gender biases based on culture, society and religion than anyone else.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 02:29 PM
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I'm a guy and I'm down with the Bonobo




[edit on 18/5/10 by blupblup]



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


I guarnatee you that bonobos have more sex than common chimpanzees. Like i said, i have watched a group of chimpanzees for over 300 hours and only saw mating activity once or twice. The common chimpanzees rarely ever do it. The bonobos do it so much that in the Jacksonville Zoo they can not let the males live with the females on exhibit because they just have sex constantly. The group that i watched were all females that were related so they didn't do the girl on girl G rubbing. I would question that study.

I have heard that bonobos have been observed eating meat and that is why i never brought that up in my post. The fact is the two species are very different.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by LifeInDeath
Bonobos are awesome, chimps can be too, but they can also be very dangerous and mean. Humans seem to have traits very similar to both - we have the violent and the loving sides to us - often in the very same person. It's like we're trapped between the two different basic behavioral patterns of these two species.

I noticed those pictures came from the Maryland Zoo (formerly the Baltimore Zoo). It's nice to see they apparently now have a habitat for their primates. When I was growing up in Baltimore ('70s and '80s), they had a horrifying "Monkey House," with all manner of monkeys and apes packed into tiny crates and cages behind glass. I remember one particularly sad, sad orang. who would just sit there glumly in his prison cell staring eternally at the ground in front of him. That sort of thing just doesn't fly anymore, it was way too cruel.

The elephant house was a similar horror when I was a kid, with one, lone magnificent beast in a big cage, with one of its legs shackled by a massive chain. The first habitat area the zoo made was for their lions, and it was fantastic. They had also been in small cages, but in the new habitat they could roam around and run and play and were much, MUCH happier. There were sections for other African animals, too: giraffes, I particularly remember.


I think that humans can possess both qualities of chimps, the love and the war side. These two different animals show what it's like when you focus on one attribute. The common chimps are the male oriented war mongers, while the females are the peaceful bonobos.

Just because you are a man doesn't mean you have to be all tough and physical. If you can become in touch with your feminine side and show more love to people around you i guarantee you will be a happier person and you may get a little more love back.

I think this is the main lesson from studying these guys.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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I like both, they really do have most of the same attributes. I think a chimp being brought up in a bonobo environment would pretty much act like a bonobo and vice versa. Like a neanderthal would be one of us if brought up in our culture. Chimpanzees are a tad more violent, but bonobos can also be very violent. Although i have not heard of cannibalism in regards to bonobos which chimpanzees are known for. Anyway, both are all part of our dysfunctional family in the end.


And Beast, Bonobos ARE violent...at first we thought they were not, but after observation and studying we found that they do engage in very violent acts similar to chimpanzees, although like i said i don't know if they have been caught in acts of cannibalism. This does not in any way detract from how amazing they are.


[edit on 19-5-2010 by Solomons]



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons
Bonobos are a chimpanzee. They are both Pan. There are two common chimps and one bonobo type.

Why would you need to be on a "team?"


Whatever you want to make from it. I see it as which qualities do you see in yourself more, a common chimpanzee or a bonobo?



What you are seeing here is that our closest relative species span the same cultural spectrums that we do.

However what I find most interesting is that regardless, neither species shows a signficant tendency towards generational advancement. In both species, males don't pass along information.


What if humans developed as slow as bonobos and chimpanzees? In possibly 1.5 million years, the physical attributes between the bonboos and chimpanzees are very small but they are noticeable.

I don't really think it is possible for humans to morph into new types of humans in only 50,000 years. That time period seems way too short. If we all evolved from the same africans over 59,000 years ago, is it really possible for the main types of humans to really evolve different qualities and traits and facial/body figures? I don't know..



By that I mean, if you teach language to either male Pan types, they don't teach it to any other member even if it is their children. Females will sometimes pass knowledge on.

In either of these models of gender-bias, the amount of information passing from generations remains fairly consistently similar. Neither is showing any advantage over millions of years.

There is a lesson in that me thinks.


I see the advantage socially to the bonobos since they aren't out killing as much as the common chimpanzees. I think there is a lesson in that, how peaceful humans can be. We don't have to fight and wage wars if you have love in your heart.

[edit on 2010/5/18 by Aeons]



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 01:36 PM
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The differences between the common and bonobo are mainly "cultural."

They can and do hybridize - and in that case they pick up the interaction style most common around them. Just as humans do.

Humans have come up with so many differences in such a short period of time for a variety of reasons - the greatest of which being that we have been doubling back on our ancestral and side lines with a very small population over and over. We've been to the brink of extinction with only small groupings left so often that it has either meant that our chromosomes adapt or bring back latent traits, or we die out. Variability won.

I do not see myself as more like one or the other. It is likely that when our line doubled back with mating when they still could, they ran into both groups and both groups are incorporated into our own now.

The Pan group has black skin and white skin (though not brown to my knowledge), they have black, brown and red hair. They have different sequences for these variations, but the level of variation is typified by the area of variability in the chromosome polymorphism.

My point here is that we are not "like" either Pan type, but we span the same range of variation they do. If Pan migrated as we do, the deep clading of the two types wouldn't be as obvious.

Further - you are very attached to adding human traits ontop of chimpanzees. The "loving" or "warlike" behaviour who are describing is your own view of it.

[edit on 2010/5/19 by Aeons]



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by rtcctr
 


There are hybrids of bonobo chimps and common chimps. They are completely capable of interbreeding. Many of the chimps in captivity are of mixed lineage.

The difference in their genetic make up is not 20%. The degree of variation between human and chimp is just over 1%.

www.pnas.org...





 
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