reply posted on 16-5-2010 @ 11:44 AM by DarkStormCrow
Oh great another the evil Americans killed civilians with the Atomic Bombs thread
Lets see how Japan got to the point where Atomic bombs were used against them
China Estimated 7,000,000 civilans murdered low estimate, 16,000,000 high estimate
Dutch East Indies 3,030,000 civilians murdered low estimate, 4,030,000 high estimate
French Indo China 1,000,000 civilians murdered low estimate, 1,500,000 high estimate
India 1,500,000 civilians murdered low estimate, 2,500,000 high estimate
Philippines 500,000 civilians murdered low estimate, 1,000,000 and consider that these people are American citizens at the time
these are just the major instances of Japanese atrocities
Japan lost 580,000 civilians from 1933-1945 ,70,000 died in Hiroshima from the intitial blast, 40,000 died in Nagasaki from the intitial blast, high
estimates for casualties from radiation and other causes from both bombs combined range from 90,000 to 166,000 including lack of medical services.
Everytime this evil Americans dropped atomic bombs thread comes up, which seems to be on a quarterly basis at a minumum, we seem to forget how japan
got itself in the position they were in
Allied civilians killed by Japan low estimate in the 5 areas I have named above low estimate 13,030,000 and the high estimate 26,030,000.
Even with the atomic bombs the allies killed 580,000 Japanese civilians from 1933-1945
Projected American casuaties for Operation Downfall (the invasion of japan) From Wikipedia
Because the U.S. military planners assumed "that operations in this area will be opposed not only by the available organized military forces of the
Empire, but also by a fanatically hostile population", high casualties were thought to be inevitable, but nobody knew with certainty how high.
Several people made estimates, but they varied widely in numbers, assumptions, and purposes—which included advocating for and against the invasion.
Afterwards, they were reused in the debate over the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Casualty estimates were based on the experience of the preceding campaigns, drawing different lessons:
In a study done by the Joint Chiefs of Staff in April, the figures of 7.45 casualties/1,000 man-days and 1.78 fatalities/1,000 man-days were
developed. This implied that a 90-day Olympic campaign would cost 456,000 casualties, including 109,000 dead or missing. If Coronet took another 90
days, the combined cost would be 1,200,000 casualties, with 267,000 fatalities.
A study done by Adm. Nimitz's staff in May estimated 49,000 U.S casualties in the first 30 days, including 5,000 at sea. A study done by General
MacArthur's staff in June estimated 23,000 U.S. casualties in the first 30 days and 125,000 after 120 days. When these figures were questioned by
General Marshall, MacArthur submitted a revised estimate of 105,000, in part by deducting wounded men able to return to duty.
In a conference with President Truman on June 18, Marshall, taking the Battle of Luzon as the best model for Olympic, thought the Americans would
suffer 31,000 casualties in the first 30 days (and ultimately 20% of Japanese casualties, which implied a total of 70,000 casualties). Adm. Leahy,
more impressed by the Battle of Okinawa, thought the American forces would suffer a 35% casualty rate (implying an ultimate toll of 268,000).
Admiral King thought that casualties in the first 30 days would fall between Luzon and Okinawa, i.e., between 31,000 and 41,000.
Of these estimates, only Nimitz's included losses of the forces at sea, though kamikazes had inflicted 1.78 fatalities per kamikaze pilot in the
Battle of Okinawa, and troop transports off Kyūshū would have been much more exposed.
A study done for Secretary of War Henry Stimson's staff by William Shockley estimated that conquering Japan would cost 1.7 to 4 million American
casualties, including 400,000 to 800,000 fatalities, and five to ten million Japanese fatalities. The key assumption was large-scale participation by
civilians in the defense of Japan.
Outside the government, well-informed civilians were also making guesses. Kyle Palmer, war correspondent for the Los Angeles Times, said half a
million to a million Americans would die by the end of the war. Herbert Hoover, in memorandums submitted to Truman and Stimson, also estimated 500,000
to 1,000,000 fatalities, and were believed to be conservative estimates; but it is not known if Hoover discussed these specific figures in his
meetings with Truman. The chief of the Army Operations division thought them "entirely too high" under "our present plan of campaign."
The Battle of Okinawa ran up 72,000 U.S casualties in 82 days, of whom 12,510 were killed or missing. (This is conservative, because it excludes
several thousand U.S. soldiers who died after the battle indirectly from their wounds.) The entire island of Okinawa is 464 square miles; to take it,
therefore, cost the United States 407 soldiers (killed or missing) for every 10 square miles of island. If the U.S. casualty rate during the invasion
of Japan had only been 5 percent as high per square mile as it was at Okinawa, the United States would still have lost 297,000 soldiers (killed or
Nearly 500,000 Purple Heart medals were manufactured in anticipation of the casualties resulting from the invasion of Japan. To the present date, all
the American military casualties of the sixty years following the end of World War II—including the Korean and Vietnam Wars—have not exceeded that
number. In 2003, there were still 120,000 of these Purple Heart medals in stock. There are so many in surplus that combat units in Iraq and
Afghanistan are able to keep Purple Hearts on-hand for immediate award to wounded soldiers on the field.
Invasion of Japan would have doubled the number of Americans killed in combat during WWII probably taking the death count over 1,000,000.
Keep in mind that until after the bombing of Hiroshima the Soviet Union was an ally of Japan throughout the war it was only after Hiroshima that they
declared war on Japan and invaded Manchuria. The US did not need to demostrate the Atomic bombs to the Soviets , thier spies already knew the US had
the bomb. Teh US did not start the war in the Pacific that war had been going on since 1933 long before Pearl Harbor.