Do you think the UK should leave the EU?, page 2
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reply posted on 14-5-2010 @ 04:10 AM by catwhoknows
reply to post by Ibex08


Yes I do, because the UK is a few little islands - there is a reason for that I think.

Just as here in NZ we are a few little islands.


Why are we separated? Because we stand on our own.


reply posted on 14-5-2010 @ 07:28 AM by Freeborn
In 1973 Ted Heath and his Conservative governement took the UK into the European Economic Community, or EEC, also known as The Common Market.

Part of the Labour Party manifesto during the two General Elections of 1974 was the promise of a referendum of the UK's continued membership of the EEC.

Labour, who had concerns over certain policies within the EEC, the Common Agricultural Policy etc, won an overall majority in October 1974 and subsequently held a referendum in June 1975.

With a turnout of nearly 65% approximately 67% voted for continued membership.

It is necessary to look at the aims of the EEC to understand exactly what the British public voted for.

The EEC was a Free Trade Organisation aimed at developing;
1. Customs Union and common external tariff.
2. Common agriculture, trade and transport policies.
3. Enlargement of EEC throughout Europe.

en.wikipedia.org...

In 1986 The Single European Act was agreed.
This changed the very nature of the EEC.
It's aims were the establishment of The Single Market and European Political Cooperation, the start of the move towards full European Union and transferal of power from Westminster to Strasbourg and Brussels.
en.wikipedia.org...

The Maastricht Treaty followed in 1991 and with it came about The European Union with much broader powers.
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

It was then followed by The Lisbon Treaty which gave even more power to the central European Union even allowing it to dictate national policy at en.wikipedia.org...

During all this there had been a growing movement for the introduction of a single European currency to help support and assist trade between member states.
This came into useage in 2002 has become more and more influential in world economics.
Only the UK and Denmark negotiated exemption from the Euro and still use their own currencies and Sweden opted out in 2003 as the result of a national referendum.
en.wikipedia.org...

Gradually since the UK's entry into the EEC the centralised European organisation has systematically tried to gain more and more control away from the soveriegn states and impose it's own rules, regualtions and now laws upon it's member states.
It has neither the mandate or the legal authority to do so in the UK.

First of all, let's have a look at the definition of the term 'Sovereignty'.
en.wikipedia.org...

' Sovereignty is the quality of having supreme, independent authority over a territory. It can be found in a power to rule and make law that rests on a political fact for which no purely legal explanation can be provided.'

By signing The Lisbon Treaty, (contrary to the policy as stated in the Labour Party Manifesto), Gordon Brown sacrificed Britain's right to veto in EU policy making in 40 areas.

If that is not a surrendering of Sovereignty then I don't know what is.

We are now in the position where the EU can overrule UK laws.

Back in 1975 the British people voted to enter a trade agreement, nothing more, nothing less.

Every single Prime Minister since, and possibly our monarch, has been guilty of gradually but continually surrendering sovereignty to a foreign power.
The EU is in the process of completely usurping our sovereignty and control over our own country with powers to dictate over every aspect of our every day lives.

I am not even going to go into the Fourth Reich / NWO theories and aspects of the EU.

I am not even going into how corrupt and overly beaurocratic an organisation it is.

The very fact that this has happened, quite openly, without the Britsh people having anysay in it is tantamount to Treason.

I personally wish to withdraw from the EU.
But it is the peoples right to self-determination that is at question.
If the majority wish to stay in the EU, so be it.
But we should demand the right to vote on it.

Cameron and Clegg both said it is time to listen to the people.
Let's force their hand and see how committed they are to this and demand our right to have OUR say on just who is to govern us!


reply posted on 14-5-2010 @ 07:42 AM by blupblup
reply to post by Freeborn




You know Andy can't leave....


He's being monitored constantly by the government and MI5 and so on.... they watch his every move and he can't even think without them listening in to his thoughts....

But any time you ask him about it, he just leaves the thread and then pops up in the next thread spouting the same rubbish.

He doesn't hate England because it's England, he hates it, because in his mind anyway, He's being surveilled and controlled both physically and mentally.

Or in other words.....

Na, you get the point.


reply posted on 23-5-2010 @ 04:54 AM by Tiger5
reply to post by Doc Velocity


Actually Socialism, as written by Marx only works on a global basis hence the perpetual problems of the Soviet bloc and the need to export revolution. The British left was always against the EU and wrote about it at the height of the EU fervour.

Anyway It may cost us more to get out of the EU and retool the economy. We should remain part of the trading bloc. Britain gets a lot of funding from the EU.

I believe that the expansion of the EU to include economically weaker countries like Greece was the problem. Interestingly the Germans have been very Eurosceptical.



reply posted on 23-5-2010 @ 05:33 AM by Freeborn
reply to post by Tiger5


The problem I, and the majority of people I know, dislike the EU has little to do with the Trade Agreememnts, allthough the UK has been screwed over on these in the past, but more to do with the illegal move towards political union and the loss of British sovereignty.

Unfortunately all the major political parties seem intent on ignoring the will of the people and denying us our right to self-determination in the form of a referendum.


reply posted on 23-5-2010 @ 05:57 AM by Tiger5
reply to post by Freeborn



Well political sovereignity is important but some of the laws that came out of Europe are excellent - such as corporate manslaughter. Some of the duff ones were the Jaffa cake arguments which was stupid and costly.




[edit on 23-5-2010 by Tiger5]


reply posted on 27-2-2011 @ 07:37 AM by Freedom ERP
In the current form of the agreement we are expected to live by within in the EU, yes we should leave but we still need to have a relationship with Europe, and it should be in the spirit of a free trade and travel association across Europe and not one that enables some form of European super state to dictate how each part of Europe should live.

Europe is a vast land, with many difference peoples, cultures and language, yet under the current arrangements, my views that I express to my Government during an election, mean nothing if some pan European body has the right to tell my Government, and then me, how I want my country run.

A classic example - The death penalty. Under our current agreement with the EU, there is no way that a UK government would listen to any part of the UK electorate and seriously consider allowing the British people to vote on the return of the death penalty or even for that matter on what kind of relationship the UK should have with Europe.
Just remember, the Irish people were not listened to the first time, and the European elite, gave the Irish Government the change to educate the Irish people to the right answer.

Freeborn’s second post on this thread is an excellent summary of how we got here, and freeborn is quite right that there was a vote in 1975 but what was voted for then and what we have today are two very difference animals.

At the very least, there should be an open discussion and the British people given the opportunity to decide on how we continue to operate with the EU, but the European elite do not want to give anyone the opportunity to vote on being part of the EU, because they can not control the result.
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