(UK) POLICE:Let us sedate suspects

(UK) POLICE:Let us sedate suspects

www.express.co.uk

POLICE want the power to order dangerous suspects to be injected with a sedative.

They claim this would help them deal with people suffering from Excited Delirium Syndrome, a condition said to give victims very high levels of strength and aggression.

Allowing paramedics to sedate such people could reduce deaths in custody, the Police Federation believes.

Only doctors or other medics can currently decide who is given drugs and officers cannot restrain anyone while a sedative is administered.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
en.wikipedia.org

[edit on 19/4/2010 by Silcone Synapse]

Hmm...so now tasers,chemical sprays and even guns are not enough tools for the UK police-Now they actually want the poewr to be able to sedate "suspects."

Excited Delirium syndrome is bascically only seen in people who are being restrained-and can lead to death apparently.Oh and it ONLY happens to you if you are in police custody!!!!

Each year, a small number of people die suddenly while being restrained. Most of these deaths are associated with individuals who were restrained while being taken into custody during a violent police encounter. Other sudden restraint deaths involve people in detention or residential treatment programs who were restrained during violent encounters while also under the influence of psychiatric medications.

There is a great deal of confusion about the cause and circumstances surrounding restraint-related sudden deaths. What is known is that there is a higher rate of sudden death during restraint encounters. Medical authorities typically have had extreme difficulty in identifying the cause of death by autopsy alone.

findarticles.com...

Will the UK cops get this new power?

Is it a fair thing to ask for or a bit OTT.

I would say that having seen how some police misuse tasers,it would not be a wise move to blur the line between medication and compliance methods by the police being able to go about injecting people(even if they need a paramedic present).

People are all different,and many are on other medications,which could interact with what the police give them..
People will die if this goes ahead IMO.

Any thoughts?


www.express.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 19/4/2010 by Silcone Synapse]

They be asking for truth serum next! and thought helmets... am sorry but this is ridiculous..

We all know what will happen, they'll simply sedate anyone they can to make their lives easier... and am sure the side effects will end up with claims of drug induced confessions..

Don't they realise how insane that sounds?

They're monsters.

Why stop at just sedating one subject at a time?

You guys in the UK need to fight this with everything you've got...

Look at how police powers are constantly misused...And every time they're given a new toy, like tasers for example, it ends up in people being killed...A huge majority of the time they're not even a threat to police...

This will be abused in a massive way if its allowed...

They have absolutely no way of knowing what other drugs (legal or not) a person may have taken before being sedated...Imagine giving a benzodiazapine to a person who has only just taken a large dose of opiates where the police/paramedic/whoever is unaware of this ?

Way to kill someone coppers *oinks*

Well I can see the reasoning behind this, but the police!? Nah mate.

These guys regularly mistake mental conditions and things like stroke victims as problem drunks, they leave epileptics handcuffed - hell they even suffocate their police dogs in over heated cars

Nope the answer is simple, we have a lot of great medical staff that once trained either let their skills lapse or go to work in other countries, lots and lots of very experienced ex military medics - employ more of them, have them in police stations and custody centres. maybe even give them policing roles as well, as sort of medic constable maybe, train them in the other maybe clerical roles that would fill in the gaps between the crazy people.

But your every day copper? No.... A division that is apart slightly in the same way traffic and bike coppers are then yes, I could see that helping.

[edit on 19/4/2010 by Now_Then]

It is AMAZING that our friends across the pond have accepted (at face value) the entire concept of "Excited Delirium".

There is some contention about the legitimacy of the 'condition' to begin with.

Discounting the occasions when a 'suspect' has psychiatric/medical or chemical imbalance issues unrelated to the event; this so-called condition was the mainstay of all the law enforcement communities trying to account for the deaths of those they had tazed liberally (or perhaps injudiciously.)

Not meaning to aggrandize my own research, which is about as likely to be incorrect or incomplete as anyone else's... a good debate on the topic of tazers touched more than briefly on the topic of "Excited Delirium."

The Taser, Should it be Banned?

There are many erudite works on the subject on ATS:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

... aw heck, just search for 'em, they're all over the place

Wouldn't you rather them sedate someone than taser them? Let's see, hrm sedative dart...vs electricity...vs led. I'm going to go with the darts.

This already happens in the US I think.

I know I saw a COPS show where they had to give a sedative to this big guy who was resisting arrest. They were already in the police station though.

this is a phony baloney syndrome cooked up by legal counsel for law enforcement to get them off scot free when they get to rough and kill a detainee

This is so rubbish, they make up who is dangerous. Like in america, how police murder people and say they where doing something. Its the same in this country, the police can destroy your life and say your dangerous, and your teh most passive man on earth.

they have been trying to destroy my life for 18 years. They pretended i was violent, but i have not hit anyone for 22 years, since i was 13.

Get it guys the police make it all up, so they just target people and make it all up. The society do not care as long as its not them.

If they get the sedatives you will see a headline that reads like this not soon after:

"Dangerous grandmother subdued with sedatives for waving cane around."

Just wait.

Originally posted by andy1033
This is so rubbish, they make up who is dangerous. Like in america, how police murder people and say they where doing something. Its the same in this country, the police can destroy your life and say your dangerous, and your teh most passive man on earth.

they have been trying to destroy my life for 18 years. They pretended i was violent, but i have not hit anyone for 22 years, since i was 13.

Get it guys the police make it all up, so they just target people and make it all up. The society do not care as long as its not them.

Not all cops are like that...it's a tougher job than you would think, detaining someone who is swinging at you or stabbing at you with a pocket knife is difficult. Then they are always on edge because they don't know who has a weapon and who doesn't. You make it sound so simple, but it's not...if someone starts hitting you, it's not like the "old days" when you can hit them back, doing that nowadays will get you fired and publicly humiliated. I can only imagine how U.S. soldiers are, a bloody lip on a suspect lands you a Court Marshall. Easy peazy, huh?

Yeah,It seems this "Excited Delirium Syndrome" could just be a label to cover any deaths in custody,and get any cops off the hook.

That stinks IMO.
I also found this :

Criminal and civil cases often cite “positional asphyxia” as the cause of death in such instances, blaming the rough treatment individuals may have received during restraint.
The authors of Excited Delirium Syndrome: Cause of Death and Prevention, however, propose a different explanation. In this groundbreaking book, they cite the reason being a condition called Excited Delirium Syndrome, in which the normal physiological changes produced by violent activity culminate in sudden cardiac death, often in conjunction with the effects of a drug.
After introducing the topic, the book recounts the condition's history and examines traditional explanations as to why such deaths occur, and then counter as to why they are not justifiable. In addition, it illustrates the effects that stressors, legal medication, and drugs of abuse have on the cardiovascular system.

www.informaworld.com...=all~content=t740989827

Which basically states that drugs can be a factor in such deaths...
So if the cops do start sedating people at the point of arrest-would'nt it make them more likeley to die?

Oh well they will probably want to add valium to our tap water soon,then no one will have to worry about anything...

They used to use similar tactics in the 70's and 80's; it was called kick the crap out of the suspect...I had one or two!

Things change....and not always for the best.

I learned a long time ago to 'come quietely' when approached by a numer of policemen, however, I would violently resist anyone trying to inject me with anything against my wishes.

This will probably cause more confrontations .

One of the major problems is we have allowed our Police to determine policy and law.
That is contrary to their supposed role which is merely to enforce the law.

Takes a deep breath and formulates his post...ducks and covers...

There are guys that kick off to such a degree that a sedative is the best way to manage them. The considerations of injury to self or injury to others is the justification for using force. People who have to deal with these situations can be facing physically fit, big fellas who are going berserk.

Trying to restrain a mammoth or person having a psychotic episode is bloody difficult. Their strength is amazing and their intent to KO you is crystal. Situations like this leave everyone open to disciplinary, legal and liability procedures. Injure the nutjob and be investigated...injure yourself and you'll be investigated to make sure your actions were appropriate. It can mean the difference between time off work with pay or no pay.

In principle, I think a timely and justified sedative is a reasonable option in appropriate circumstances. You see what I did there? I didn't suggest wholesale sedation of any pain in the ass that crosses the road. If the police are granted this....they'll be trained and required to justify the use of sedative. They'll need to be authorised too. Lots of paperwork.

A lot of ATSers hate the police and won't accept there are some very dangerous people out there. I can't comment on other police, here in the UK, I'm in favour of them having the right to sedate mindless ****heads.


Edit to add: @Freeborn, I've been there too and I starred you.

[edit on 19-4-2010 by Kandinsky]

All I can say , is that I cannot in any way condone the use of drugs on a suspect without thier consent or request. What one has to recall is that the Police in the UK have a history which is chock full of malpractice, corruption, and has even been accused of institutional racism. The fact is that they barely have enough of the moral high ground to seek justice, let alone seek to inflict drugs on suspects to make them more managable.
Until they are uncorruptable there is no way the police will ever deserve such power.

My first thought when I read this was "but supposing the suspect had another drug in their system. How would the sedative react to that?"

Reading through the replies I can see it's a major concern to many others, too. If we can all see it, why wouldn't those in authority?

I'd tentatively suggest that there's probably a good chance that someone violently resisting arrest is either under the influence of drink and/or illegal drugs or they have been prescribed drugs for a mental health problem. In the latter case how do you assess whether or not they have taken their medication, forgotten to take it, or taken too much? Particularly in a stressful situation such as trying to arrest or restrain them.

How are the police to work out the correct dosage? Do they estimate the guy's weight, guess at what other substances he may have taken, pick a number out of a hat?

I'm not being facetious, but pondering on this I thought of throwing a net over a violent offender. Not ideal, but at least an alternative to drugging (or tasering) people.


[edit on 19-4-2010 by berenike]