Who told the truth in the garden?

Originally posted by Hydroman
If you read the scripture, god told Adam and Eve that they would die the same day that they ate the fruit. They did not die until over 900 years later. That's what I'm saying.

The serpent said they would not die when they ate the fruit, and he was right.

God is only concerned with a person's SPIRITUAL condition, and what God said was entirely true, when they ate the fruit, immediately they died spiritually, their open communion with God was ruined by rebellion.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost

Originally posted by JesusisTruth

It says they will be punished in hell.

that was my point.

peace.

The existence of a literal Hell would be one of the strongest indications that God does NOT exist. A just and loving God would not permit the existence of a place where even ONE of His creations were doomed to suffer for eternity without the chance for redemption.

You're wrong, the Word clearly says that Hell was created for Lucifer and the fallen angels. man goes there as well when they refuse the free gift of redemption offered to them.

God never created Hell for humans.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Hydroman
If you read the scripture, god told Adam and Eve that they would die the same day that they ate the fruit. They did not die until over 900 years later. That's what I'm saying.

The serpent said they would not die when they ate the fruit, and he was right.

God is only concerned with a person's SPIRITUAL condition, and what God said was entirely true, when they ate the fruit, immediately they died spiritually, their open communion with God was ruined by rebellion.

not to mention that even when they died 900 years later, it was because of the fruit. if they didnt eat the fruit, they would still be alive today

so even though they didnt die physically immediately, they did die as a result of their actions

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
You're wrong, the Word clearly says that Hell was created for Lucifer and the fallen angels. man goes there as well when they refuse the free gift of redemption offered to them.

God never created Hell for humans.

the only reference to a hell for evil spirits is tartarus (which is not hell) and its not a place, but rather a condition of being completely cut off from God.

revelation tells us that satan will eventually be destroyed.

rev 22:[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

the lake of fire is symbolic for destruction. we know this because 1- jews would have immediately understood it to be gehenna (or the valley of hinnon) which was used to burn and destroy refuse and bodies of criminals not fit for burial. and 2- Death is depicted being thrown there. since "death" would be "no more" (rev 21:4), it is logical to conclude that death is "destroyed"

rev 20:[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

this destruction is in harmony with the rest of the bible.

job 21:[17] How oft is the candle of the wicked put out! and how oft cometh their destruction upon them! God distributeth sorrows in his anger.

job 21:[30] That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

job 31:[3] Is not destruction to the wicked? and a strange punishment to the workers of iniquity?

psalm 55:[23] But thou, O God, shalt bring them down into the pit of destruction: bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days; but I will trust in thee.

prov 10:[29] The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity.

isa 13:[6] Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

matt 7:[13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

phill 3:[18] (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
[19] Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

2 thes 1:[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

its like when you keep your baby from all the bad influences,and one day you tell him the truth
there is no santa
there is no easter bunny
you have to work 8 hours a day and beg women to have sex with you XD
the baby was happy before that,even though his eyes were closed to the REAL world

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
God is only concerned with a person's SPIRITUAL condition, and what God said was entirely true, when they ate the fruit, immediately they died spiritually, their open communion with God was ruined by rebellion.

Again, you believe god is that vague? Well, I guess he is vague because he spoke in parables while on earth to deliberately confuse people. That's awesome. But yeah, Adam, Eve, and the Serpent all seem to believe that god is talking about a physical death. And if god had said the same thing to you, you would have also thought physical death. So, is god that vague?



[edit on 29-4-2010 by Hydroman]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Hydroman]

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
God never created Hell for humans.

Do you believe this god is omniscient? If so, the exact second he created hell, he knew that he would be burning man also. Matter of fact, he knew this before he created it. So, yes he did create it for man also. Or, what do you think he did? "Hmmm let's see....I'm gonna create this burning place for the devil." Years later, mankind falls and then...."Hmmm, I think I will also throw man in that fire too."

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Hydroman]

Originally posted by miriam0566
not to mention that even when they died 900 years later, it was because of the fruit. if they didnt eat the fruit, they would still be alive today

so even though they didnt die physically immediately, they did die as a result of their actions

So you believe they were created immortal? What was the Tree of Life for then? Why would they need it if they were never going to die anyways? Who or what was it created for?

reply to post by Hydroman
Who care if he's "vague" or not, the point was Adam and Eve were both told NOT to eat from the tree of knowledge. They disobeyed. Regardless of the reason, the went against God's word.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
God never created Hell for humans.

Do you believe this god is omniscient? If so, the exact second he created hell, he knew that he would be burning man also. Matter of fact, he knew this before he created it. So, yes he did create it for man also. Or, what do you think he did? "Hmmm let's see....I'm gonna create this burning place for the devil." Years later, mankind falls and then...."Hmmm, I think I will also throw man in that fire too."

Knowing that men would choose to end up there is not relevant. Souls are made for eternity, where else is God supposed to send souls who want nothing to do with Him? God's Word explicitly states that Hell was created for the Devil and his angels.

In fact, why even worry about it?? It's EXTREMELY easy to avoid Hell altogether, trust in Jesus to save you.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
In fact, why even worry about it?? It's EXTREMELY easy to avoid Hell altogether, trust in Jesus to save you.

Ok. So you know you're saved? How do you know? Was it confirmed? It is only through faith. Having faith in something doesn't make it true. People of all religions have faith in their religion. They aren't all right if any of them are.

Next, you understand what I meant about the biblical god knowing that he was going to burn man forever before he even created them. So, how could he create hell without the intention of putting man in it too? See the contradiction to the verse that says hell was created for the devil?

Next, what else could god do to those who don't believe in him? Burn them? Is that the only answer? LOL!!! Maybe make them not exist anymore? Maybe put them on a planet somewhere off in the universe and let them do whatever they want? Do you think burning someone forever, no matter how nice of a person they might have been, is just? If so, are you kidding me?

Maybe people don't want to follow this god because they can see how evil he can be. Have you read the Bible? I don't know, maybe some people like that kind of evilness....I don't.

I mean, he couldn't even forgive you without you having to spill blood.


[edit on 29-4-2010 by Hydroman]

Wow, how utterly arrogant you appear to me to be. Tell me, who are YOU to judge the Creator? Who are you to say what is Just and what is not? God's lovingkindness, mercy, and patience is what prevents Him from immediately crushing you or I the very second we FIRST sin. You're telling me that the same God who called all things into existence by His spoken word has NO right to determine how it is run? Are you kidding me?

You tell me how you can claim that God is harsh or "evil", when you deny the Bible? The VERY book that defines harsh, brutal, and evil!! Your simply trying to make a good God look evil to JUSTIFY your rejection of Him. You're trying to justify your rebellion against God. And He game a way out, the infinite Son died to pay the penalty for the infinite punishment from an infinitely holy God.

God would have been "just" to kill Adam and Eve the second they sinned against Him. But no, He gave 2 blessings, a FINAL means of salvation in Christ, and a "grace period" of the penalty for sin being covered instead of bringing about instant death. And then there is the hidden blessing God gave man, by being sentenced to die once, man would not be forced to live eternity is a sin cursed world, the reason why the path to the tree of life was guarded.

So man sinned, and God acted JUSTLY by punishing that sin and even went further and offered 3 blessings: a grace period, a means of salvation, and a perfect place to live an eternal life without sin, death or the curse. LOL

Imagine if a theif went before a judge and the judge said: "You have broken the law, and so you deserve to spend the rest of your life in jail with no parole, however I will only give you 1 month in jail, and you don't have to begin serving that for six months so that you may return home and get all your affairs in order. After 1 month in jail, I'll give you a guaranteed release, and on top of that, I'll buy you a million-dollar house and fully furnish it for you myself." It seems strange that people would say that judge was "evil" or harsh for sentencing that man to jail for a month. What's even more ludicrous is if the thief REFUSED the offer.

The Bible says that on judgment day "every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father." I'll tell you what, knowing that every knee will eventually bow and every tongue will confess I'd make sure you did it now, rather than later when it won't make a difference. But that's me, I'm not very flame retardant.

reply to post by Hydroman


Nobody... The entire story is a work of fiction created by a group of nomads roaming the desert trying to explain how the world came to be, and what where the origins of man. Not a single part of the Creation Myth is true, and there is not one single piece of data that supports it. So, since this story is complete fiction, it's all a lie technically...

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


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reply to post by NOTurTypical


A very specific question was asked in the OP, and I gave a very specific answer to THAT question. If you feel the need to play mini-mod, I suggest that you hit the alert button, not go into a hand-slapping campaign. It is not your place to interpret the rules.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

A very specific question was asked in the OP, and I gave a very specific answer to THAT question. If you feel the need to play mini-mod, I suggest that you hit the alert button, not go into a hand-slapping campaign. It is not your place to interpret the rules.

I didn't say you couldn't share your opinion with us all in another thread you create to discuss your opinion specifically. I posted the TOS of this forum which plainly states that unless the thread specifically deals with the existence of God then for all intents and purposes we are assuming He does exist.

Don't blame your ignorance of the rules on me, that's your problem.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


My post in no way says that there is or is not a God, just that the author made the story up, therefore, the answer to the question "Who lied" is the author of the book, thus it is a valid response to the question posed in the OP.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

My post in no way says that there is or is not a God, just that the author made the story up, therefore, the answer to the question "Who lied" is the author of the book, thus it is a valid response to the question posed in the OP.

Don't patronize me, we all can plainly read what you posted. You said the "creation myth" is a lie.

If the universe didn't come about by creation by God as you claim then by default you claim there is no God. or are you saying that there is a God, yet he is too weak to create the world?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Don't put words in my mouth. I never stated that the Universe was not created, just that it was not created in the manner that is told in the book of Genesis. And if I was patronizing you, you would know it!!!