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Originally posted by SunIsSon
COME ON NOW FOLKS, lets get it together and snap back into reality! We are discussing a book that talks about talking snakes, a man made out of dust, a women made out of the dust-mans rib, an invisible man in the sky, and a magical fruit tree. And this is only a SMALL part of the absurd stories in this ancient book that also includes a violent monster of a God who throws temper tantrums killing innocent men women children and animals, while encouraging men to be mass-murders and war among others that disagree with them. The book was told by authors NOT there to WITNESS anything, edited by corrupt men afterward, grossly mistranslated, and altered. Not to mention, it consists of stories that all occurred in earlier times that were known to be MYTHS. Lets get it together folks!!
[edit on 18-4-2010 by SunIsSon]
I asked you to refute my own assertions because you seemed to be comfortable with Genesis and I figured you would turn to scripture itself to refute my interpretation. Not that I believe there is anything in Genesis that would do so, but that has never stopped anyone in the past from attempting to do so anyway.
I realize my interpretation is not the norm in regards to the whole "fall from grace" and "expulsion" mythology. Here is what I would suggest to you; The God presented by those who argue that this myth is a cautionary tale warning against disobeying God seem to ignore many flaws with such an argument. A.) All of humanity now has no access to Paradise at the moment because of what Adam and Eve did then, so why should anyone care what God thinks about disobeying orders? B.) The God presented as first a loving and compassionate God and then suddenly a jealous and vengeful God presents a God with a sort neurosis. C.) The focus on punishment rather than the consequences to choices we make has become the interpretation most sold to the public.
This is from The King James version from 1611.
11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower,
whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name,
lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which
the children of men builded.
11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they
have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now
nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined
11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language,
that they may not understand one an other's speech.
11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face
of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
That to me says God scattered us because we are no longer bound by anything that keeps us from achieving the unimaginable.
They say let us go down and stop them.
I would suggest to you that we should not be angry with Adam and Eve for thrusting upon us "this original sin", but understand that what they did was choose knowledge over comfort, and this is worthy of admiration. I would then suggest that by following my interpretation, God remains the loving and compassionate God who is not at all jealous, vengeful, nor neurotic, and the expulsion from the Garden was not punishment, it was just simply the consequence of choosing to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Finally, I would suggest that if the focus was placed upon the adventure that followed for humanity rather than the perceived punishment from God, we would all be a little less neurotic and less inclined to punish each other. Just some thoughts.
Originally posted by faceoff85
Originally posted by Hydroman
Originally posted by Alxandro
Ever wonder why the medical symbol includes snakes?
btw, why are you expecting God to fix the environment he created for, yet has been destroyed by, Man?
I always thought the intertwining snakes was a symbol for a strand of dna. Moses even used the snake symbol to bring healing. Remember that?
Why did god send a flood to fix things when man had messed things up?
Im curious to the explanation of that symbol although I believe I've heard it before..
but about the flood... it wasn't just man who screwed things up... the fallen angels in that time had taken women and bore kids... the herculesses or nephilims... they were men of renown anyway... but the bible describes those times as being quite bad... murder and rape were quite common... there was alot of godlesness. And if we were to take the book of enoch to be true man actually learned alot of forbidden techniques back then from those fallen angels... astrology, the cutting of herbs (drugs?), spells, the forging of weapons, making war and enoch even mentions make-up and similar atributes to be things god found detestable... quite an interesting book although i have doubts about its authenticity... you should also remember god gave those people a chance and 40 years time (wich probably had the oposite effect as us humans tend to think quite short-term) to escape the flood.
I have my opinion established quite well but I trust being here on ATS will keep me with 2 feet on the ground... in that since I am relying on my fellowposters...
[edit on 18-4-2010 by faceoff85]
16 The LORD God commanded the man. He said, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden. 17 But you must never eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because when you eat from it, you will certainly die."
1 The snake was more clever than all the wild animals the LORD God had made. He asked the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must never eat the fruit of any tree in the garden'?" 2 The woman answered the snake, "We're allowed to eat the fruit from any tree in the garden 3 except the tree in the middle of the garden. God said, 'You must never eat it or touch it. If you do, you will die!'" 4 "You certainly won't die!" the snake told the woman. 5 God knows that when you eat it your eyes will be opened. You'll be like God, knowing good and evil." 6 The woman saw that the tree had fruit that was good to eat, nice to look at, and desirable for making someone wise. So she took some of the fruit and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then their eyes were opened, and they both realized that they were naked. They sewed fig leaves together and made clothes for themselves.
19 By the sweat of your brow, you will produce food to eat until you return to the ground, because you were taken from it. You are dust, and you will return to dust."
Adam lived a total of 930 years; then he died.
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
Genesis 2:16-17 "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Originally posted by Dark Ghost
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
The major problem I have with your response is the existence of the serpent/Satan. Why did God create Satan knowing all that he would cause? Why was a deceptive and evil creature created by God in the first place?
Can you please explain why the "Forbidden Tree of Knowledge" was created in the first place and why a snake was able to convince another one of God's creations to disobey him?
[edit on 20/4/2010 by Dark Ghost]
Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Satan was not created evil, God created a perfect good being with free will, that Angel sinned abusing his free will, when he did he became Satan the Devil and evil, and the leader of all those who choose to rebel against God. God allowed this, he never created it. His creation is not robotic in nature.
The "tree of knowledge" was a simple test, God was expressing his rightful sovereignty, basically he was saying do you honor and respect my sovereignty over this planet? Adam & Eve didn't, by there actions.
That allowed Satan to mock God and say nobody will respect your sovereignty. God's response was to give humanity thousands of years to disprove Satan's claim.
Originally posted by Blueracer
I'm not sure what you're saying but Adam and Eve are dead. Looks like God was right.
Originally posted by Dark Ghost
Why did God create Satan knowing all that he would cause? Why was a deceptive and evil creature created by God in the first place?
Can you please explain why the "Forbidden Tree of Knowledge" was created in the first place
and why a snake was able to convince another one of God's creations to disobey him?
Originally posted by Dark Ghost
But then giving Free Will to his creations was a bad mistake. Allowing one of his fallen Angels to then lead many others down the wrong path is an even worse mistake. Would you agree that maybe Satan has grown beyond God's ability to control him? How can a just and righteous God allow such a being to continue to live and corrupt others?
Why does an omni-(everything) God need to test his creations? If everything derived from Him then he would know all the possible consequences of actions done by His creations. In fact, he created that tree knowing that Adam and Eve would eat from it. If He did not know this, then he cannot be all-knowing. Free Will is given, but God knows the decision we will make. Allowing us to be born and commit sin comes down to Negligence on His part.
Originally posted by miriam0566
satan wasnt created evil (ezekial 28:11-19)
satan turned evil because of a desire he let grow in his heart. (james 1:14-15)
god created us with freewill. logically, he didnt just want automation from us. inherit in that design is the possibility that freewill would be used in making some not-so-wise decisions.
obviously god was giving them the ability to exercise their freewill if they so chose.
was it unfair? no, the had plenty of food in the garden.
was it difficult? no, just stay away from the tree.
however, if they so chose to rebel they had that ability to express it by a simple act.
the serpent used deception, something that wasnt used before, to invoke desire. adam and eve had everythign they couldve wanted, or needed. satan made them feel like something was lacking.
note - eve could have talked to god about what the serpent had told her. im sure the conversation would have ben very enlightening, but she chose to "lean upon" her own understanding (prov 3:5) and eat the fruit.
Originally posted by miriam0566
reply to post by Dark Ghost
all great questions, and i will get to them i promise, but i have to get ready to go.