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Race consideration for University admissions

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posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 09:37 AM
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You mentioned Georgia Tech having problems recruting in a previous post Marg, and that's a perfect example.

I have some knowledge of their situation from my previous business dealings with them (which I won't go into here) but I have it on good authority they can't get qualified women or blacks to give them a second look period.

In the words of a Director I'm sure I'm not allowed to name Any woman or Minority good enough to come to Tech for engineering is going to Ivy League. They aren't about to lower standards, but they do target recruting and have spent enourmous amounts in creating a minority friendly image.

Why this surprises anyone I don't know. I've worked on this issue for everyone from private companies to the Marines. People like to pretend our institutions are just brimming with underqualified minorities while qualified whites sit on waiting lists and that's simply not supported by the data.

[Edited on 4-6-2004 by RANT]




posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by ThePrankMonkey
[funny, i never mentioned this, only that i dont think ANYONE should get preferential treatment.

all guess what MLK said about being judged on ones content of ones chracter and not the color of their skin was pure drivel and noone seems to heed his words anymore.


I agree with you here prank as I have said, but what else can be done to help those who are being persecuted? I wish everyone would live by MLK's words, then this wouldn't be an issue, but it is and something has to be done to help.



posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by earthtone

I agree with you here prank as I have said, but what else can be done to help those who are being persecuted? I wish everyone would live by MLK's words, then this wouldn't be an issue, but it is and something has to be done to help.


how about pressuring the schools themselves to get rid of those who are intentially omitting people because of their race or sex?

instead of pressuring law makers to make law after law after law after law...maybe we should put the pressure on the colleges themselves. boycotts for example...

its not the colleges but those who run them that are the problem. its a handful of people who do this and all of a sudden EVERYONE gets treated like # in the process because these colleges keep these people on their payrolls.

obviously if such laws were going to work they would have. but they havent.

to cure the problem you have to get rid of it, not try to legislate into behaving a certain way. it doesnt work and there is a lot of proof in this regard.



posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 09:51 AM
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TextWell at least its not a medical school, which BTW it happens at too


Medical school well let see, here in Georgia if your father is a doctor you have pretty god change to become a doctor even if that is not your call as long as you keep your grade in the passing score. They have their own association. My daughter has a friend she is one of the best medical school here in Georgia and even when she is barely passing she is still in med school.

And about Georgia tech well females are encourage to apply occurs I am not talking about non passing grades but barely making it there grades vs. outstanding grades.

My daughter have a 3.9 she applied to UGA, she is Spanish, 2 of her friends applied also with 3.8 and 3.7 my daughter was accepted immediately her friends have to wait for 2 months and on a waiting list, they were white.

I know it works in my daughter's favor but, see what I mean?




posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
My daughter have a 3.9 she applied to UGA, she is Spanish, 2 of her friends applied also with 3.8 and 3.7 my daughter was accepted immediately her friends have to wait for 2 months and on a waiting list, they were white.

I know it works in my daughter's favor but, see what I mean?



I'd say your daughters 3.9 had the most to do with that. Georgia HS's have experienced unprecedented grade inflation ever since the lottery allowed anyone with a B to basically go to college for free.

The State schools are having to get picky and there's less room for anything less than a sterling A+.

Congrats to your daughter.
Go Dawgs. Tell her to stay away from Toppers and the dirty old men of 283 and she'll be fine.



posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 10:01 AM
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Thats nothing new, dont they have all black universities? Plus there is all that affermative action crap, people getting positions because of their ethnicity, rather than their talents. It is disgusting.



posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 10:08 AM
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TextCongrats to your daughter. Go Dawgs. Tell her to stay away from Toppers and the dirty old men of 283 and she'll be fine.


Thanks she is in her 3 year now, it is nothing bad in taking advantage of the political racial and gender influences in this country but at least she deserve the special threatment.



posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 10:22 AM
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Here is what I don't understand. Why use race or culture at all. It should be totally irrelevant. Use a grade point average...nothing more. Its fair and a goal every high school student can shoot for. Let state universities set a 2.75 or 3.00. If you don't have that average you are not getting in,period. Has nothing to with race or anything. If you want to go to college bad enough,you will have too work your butt off to get in. That is the way it should be.

The same with grants and loans to pay for college. Why should the state give some kid with 1.50 GPA a loan to get into college,save the money for the kids that have earned it.



posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 10:31 AM
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I do think that applications should be sex, race etc blind. They should also exclued the name and refer to just a number. That would be fair.

But to be honest, there is a serious problem with equality in the public school system (which is the cause of the AA continuation). Poor areas (urban) do not have as good of a school system than the more well of areas. But that also includes to often left out rural areas as well (which are mainly white). They get more of the raw end of the deal than anyone else because they get no special consideration because they are white, but have terrible schools to boot.

So, I would recommend converting AA to a school system boost for the poor school areas on a temporary basis while we could overhaul the system and make it more communist (every kids gets more of the same over a statewide if not national basis).

Just an idea.



posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
it is nothing bad in taking advantage of the political racial and gender influences in this country but at least she deserve the special threatment.




yes if you dont mind being an opportunistic person.

i find it morally reprehensible and i think it sends the wrong message.

i know full well if i had done such a thing and used my race or sex to further myself i'd be labeled a racist or a sexist.

funny how its ok as long as you arent white or male.

and yes now the gloves are coming off.

i am repulsed by your flippant attitude towards this. now its great that your daughter had such wonderful grades and all but obviously she didnt need to take advantage of her "special status" to get there and your statement implies that such behavior is ok.

this is ignorance is bred. this is why this "issue" is perpetuated.

but you keep thinking this is perfectly ok.



posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by KrazyJethro
But to be honest, there is a serious problem with equality in the public school system (which is the cause of the AA continuation).


This is true, but I was one of three white girls in my entire graduating class. Where's my extra points? Point being, I agree with you, but don't see this as a cause for differentiation amoung college admissions. If the skills are there, then they ought to be picked up on for what they are. My opinion is that they ought to keep race off the applications for enrollment completely, and just leave that for the FAFSA and other Financial Aid applications where it belongs.

I don't think that it'll hold if people fight it... given the Supereme Court case here in Michigan over the past few years that ruled racial biasing on undergraduate admissions applications unconstitutional. It was a definate issue before the UofM case, but the Supreme court did make a descision... and thats why it's the SUPREME court... because it isn't unsupreme.



posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 10:52 AM
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Text am repulsed by your flippant attitude towards this


I am in a good mood today so I am not going to be offended by your comment by a moderator and all, but I am a minority I can not change that fact as a minority I know what is to be at disadvantage in this society and even of sulking and crying I have taking advance of the situation, I don't make the laws in this country but mostly white politicians do sorry for being Spanish, skinny and beautiful now can burn me if you want to I forgive you.



Can we just be friends this is just a forum and everybody have the right to their own views.



posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 10:56 AM
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you're not a minority. good grief you've been brainwashed into believing that somehow you're a downtrodden person.

YOU'RE A PERSON. you're not special.

just because someone else believes that you're anything less than a human being and they want to you believe this doesnt make this so.

i'm human, you're human. period.



posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by ThePrankMonkey
i'm human, you're human. period.


But sadly not everyone feels this way, and there is no way to make everyone feels this way, so some peoiple have to try and do something about it right?



posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 11:03 AM
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ThePrankMonkey

I had always been treated well by people because I am a feisty very strong head person plus I have education, racism in this country will always be because this nation is base in many races and as long as is people from different backgrounds we always are going to compare each other. That is the way our society is.




posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 11:03 AM
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Prankmonkey, I think Marg brought it up to say it doesn't seem right...then later added the more flippant statement about the situation.

I don't think that was her intent, but so what if it was?

My first real job years ago was on a construction crew. I had no idea what I was doing, and was the only white guy. So they immediately made me foreman, handed me the keys to the truck, gave me the gas card and a raise over 20 year veteran laborers.

I wasn't "flip" about it...I actually felt like crap and said something, but I didn't quit. I needed the money. I needed that job. But kind of like Marg said, my race didn't hurt. It helped me then just like it helped all white people for the previous few hundred years they got head start on American minorities.

It was wrong, but it happened. So now if some C student white kid has to wait on a list or have his daddy buy him a degree at Yale instead of the automatic entry his family enjoyed for generations in order to even things up a bit...so be it.

But like I've been saying, it's not like that. I seriously doubt there's a white kid anywhere in America with the grades that can't find some college to take them. Though it's very tempting I'm sure to blame Affirmative Action when your first choice rejects you.

That's alot like how the girl in the bar that says no must be a lesbian, huh?



posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 11:07 AM
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Thanks, for the comment and yes if you have the money you can by anything in this country, that can be a good new thread? I do not post threads I prefer to read and answer so if somebody does I will be glad to post.



posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
I do not post threads I prefer to read and answer so if somebody does I will be glad to post.


Do you want me to do it especially for you marg heheh!



posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by earthtone

Originally posted by ThePrankMonkey
i'm human, you're human. period.


But sadly not everyone feels this way, and there is no way to make everyone feels this way, so some peoiple have to try and do something about it right?


and what would that solution be? to make whole groups of people feel like minorities when they're just human? whats the answer? the only reason why people feel like a minority is because that what they've been trained to believe. so what do we do? continue to say" yes you're a minority and we feel sorry for you" or point out the obvious? that being that noone is a minority. it'd be different if we were all different species but we arent. there is no minority, just different looking people.

are fat people a minority group? are ugly people a minority group? after all they're discriminated against. how about gay black jewish dyslexic people? are they a minority all unto themselves?

it is a vicious cycle BOTH sides contribute to. howeverone side is in COMPLETE and utter denial of the role they're playing in this.

she isnt a minority by any means. she believes this because she's taught to think this.

people love to categorize others and themselves. even the so called "enlightened" people cant see this basic concept is beyond fruitless and does nothing but perpetuate the ignorance they claim they want to get rid of. they are adding fuel to the fire by continuing to think certain people are less than human by calling them minorities and then giving them a special status and special rights.

guess why colleges do this? they get more funding if they get more "minorities". they also avoid the ire of cetain "minority" groups that like to play bully.

one can hardly call themselves fair when they only look out for one group of people.

she's not a minority, and she certainly doesnt seem downtrodden to me. she obviously has a computer and access to the internet, something truly opressed downtrodden people dont have.

she's not spanish. she's human.

the problem is some people dont want to accept this because as soon as people do they will be judged on their merits and SOME people are afraid of that. there are those who hide behind their "minority status" to get ahead while others shrug off this ignorant notion that they need special treatment and push ahead furthering themselves.

just like some people wanyt others to feel like a minority, there are those who want to feel like victims even if they're not.

one is not a victim unless one wants to be a victim.



posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 11:19 AM
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You know what, you sound like me when I was mad a the world but I got over, you are right on many things but anger bring wars not solutions to problems, we don't chose what we are but rather what we accomplish in this world and we have something I call the human condition and we all suffer from it. We all the same from the same species and still we look at each other and see each other different when the true is we are all the same.



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