Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Human and virus share a common ancestor.

page: 1
11
<<   2 >>

log in

join

posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 12:44 PM
link   
I've just read an article about a huge virus.

The virus is called the Mimi virus and it's so big it even dwarfs the smallest bacteria.
There is however a major difference between a virus and the Mimi virus.
The Mimi virus houses around a 1000 genes where a normal virus like H.I.V. or Influenza virus only houses around 10 genes.
So the Mimi virus has a 100 times more genes then a common virus.


THE world's largest known virus just got bigger, and analysis of its genome supports the controversial idea that giant viruses shaped the cells of all animals and plants.

Armed with almost 1000 genes, the mimivirus is a monster compared with classic viruses such as HIV or the flu virus, which seldom have more than 10 genes. Jean-Michel Claverie of the Structural and Genomic Information Laboratory in Marseilles, France, has performed the first analysis of its genetic machinery, identifying which of the mimivirus's genes are switched on during each stage of infection.


The Mimi virus has the ability to reproduce on it's own. Where a normal virus violates a cell and takes over it's core to reproduce itself, a Mimi virus will violate a cell only act like an independent cell core. It only consumes what it needs from the cell and uses it's own capabilities to reproduce.



And a picture of the Mimi virus itself.

And another.
Prowess on parade (Image: Russell Knightley/SPL)

How does this link to a common ancestor ?

There are two sorts of cells. Cells with a cell core and cells without a cell core in this case DNA just floats around in the cell. Prokaryote( without a core ) cells and eukaryotic cells ( with a core )

It has never been fully understood how these cells evolved from having no core at all to having a core.

Scientists believe this Mimi virus is a fusion from these two cells which could mean all cells with a core are a result of the fusion from a virus and a bacteria.

Sources.
Faqt ( Dutch site )
Giant Mimi virus does it's reproduction in house.
Wiki link to the Mimi virus.


I hope this offers enough for a nice discussion about it.
As it isn't enough to accept we evolved from an ape like creature.


It brings up the scene from the matrix where agent Smith. Explains he thinks we are more like a virus. How cool is that.


Edit. spelling.



[edit on 10-4-2010 by Sinter Klaas]




posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 01:03 PM
link   
Brilliant Thread, Just bumping it so hopefully people can see this more.
S&F



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 01:32 PM
link   
If I recall correctly mimivirus actually has some genes that code plasma membrane proteins.



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 01:38 PM
link   
Important ! Related article about human DNA contains virus DNA..

To make this thread complete I'd like to ad some extra articles.
These back up the the human relation with virus DNA.

Hunting Fossil Viruses in Human DNA

Genes Reveal the Ancient Battle Between Man and VirusHuman DNA contains evidence of retroviral infections

8% of Human DNA Comes from a 40 Million Year-Old Virus

Enjoy



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 01:43 PM
link   
reply to post by rhinoceros
 



If I recall correctly mimivirus actually has some genes that code plasma membrane proteins.


I'm not really a genetics prof.

What do you say ?
The virus copies the cell membrane or it knows how to make it's own ?



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 07:12 PM
link   
reply to post by Sinter Klaas
 


Wow look much though had gone into this thread, great job.



I need a bit to prose the material, to beable to dicuss. I can say this, I bet viruses were the first here anyway!



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 08:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by theability
reply to post by Sinter Klaas
 


Wow look much though had gone into this thread, great job.



I need a bit to prose the material, to beable to dicuss. I can say this, I bet viruses were the first here anyway!


You think they were here first ?

I don't think so. All viruses are parasites. They need another living cell to reproduce. Well this mimivirus only has to swim circles inside a cell to find it's food. But it can reproduce on it's own.



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 03:25 AM
link   

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas

Originally posted by theability
reply to post by Sinter Klaas
 


Wow look much though had gone into this thread, great job.



I need a bit to prose the material, to beable to dicuss. I can say this, I bet viruses were the first here anyway!


You think they were here first ?

I don't think so. All viruses are parasites. They need another living cell to reproduce. Well this mimivirus only has to swim circles inside a cell to find it's food. But it can reproduce on it's own.




Are you saying that things which don't reproduce were not here first?



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 03:36 AM
link   
No. I'm saying that viruses were not here first.

I could be wrong tho.



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 04:00 AM
link   

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
No. I'm saying that viruses were not here first.

I could be wrong tho.


Before life? Like, before stromatolites?

The fact is, viruses can hibernate very long time.
Also, non-living things do evolve, in the same sense living species evolve (prions for example).
Definition of life fades away before this fact. As well as the idea of "continuity" and "causality". Because, not all living forms reproduce.

Even now, our technology enables us to create or evolve living beings by genetic manipulation. This is where the difference between technology and biology disappears. Perhaps, it was always like that. Someone's or something's intent does count.

It turns out that "creationists" may be winning, after all...

Then, maybe, viruses are just discarded material from creation of living cells as we know them. It is hard to tell.

Mitochondria are assumed to originate from some bacteria, and they have crucial role in evolution of life, they enabled high intensity life (they are energy factories). Mitochondria invaded existing cells which already had cores, and stayed there, integrated. Their DNA is of circular shape, unlike the rest of DNA which has a double helix shape. They very rarely mutate.

Just think of it, how mitochondria invaded almost all life (there are very few species without mitochondria). And there are only few species of bacteria which are capable of disabling mitochondria, busting them and adopting their material.

What is really going on with life? It could be just a result of some weird viral gambit...




[edit on 11-4-2010 by DangerDeath]



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 04:29 AM
link   
Mitochondrion( wiki link )

Thank you for your reply.

Very interesting !


My reasoning tells me when a virus relies on other cellular life to reproduce it couldn't have existed before it.

There would be a need for cellular life simply for somthing to evolve to the point it completly relies on that life for survival.

So even if it's ancestrial roots go back further in time, we would probably not call it a virus because it does not have the characteristics yet for us passing our understanding of a virus.

Just my two cents.



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 04:30 AM
link   
Human IS a virus. Nothing new.



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 04:46 AM
link   
reply to post by Pitons
 


You can't even imagin how much I feel like you are are right.


Next time if you got nothing to say. Don't say anyting. Please ?



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 07:30 AM
link   

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by rhinoceros
 



If I recall correctly mimivirus actually has some genes that code plasma membrane proteins.


I'm not really a genetics prof.

What do you say ?
The virus copies the cell membrane or it knows how to make it's own ?


Well viruses don't have plasma membranes. They've got a protein coating instead. However all protein synthesis takes place inside plasma membranes. This is the (simplified) fundamental reason why viruses absolutely have to infect a cell before they can reproduce. Viruses don't have any use for genes that code for (regular) plasma membrane proteins (as host provides this "service"). So why does mimivirus have some of those genes? I can think of 2 possible reasons.

1. It has acquired them from host genome. It's not uncommon that certain viruses acquire host sequences as they reproduce. However it's (in my opinion) too much of a coincidence that mimivirus has acquired so many genes of this type. How come natural selection hasn't eliminated these sequences from the mimivirus genome? It doesn't use them for anything.

2. Mimivirus is a runaway nucleus. Nucleus and viruses both have protein coatings. They both (not all viruses thou) have linear genomes inside the coating. They both control the cell. They're similar in so many ways. We still don't know the origin of nucleus. I'm rooting for a rather controversial hypothesis called viral eukaryogenesis.


edits:

Actually I can think of a few cases where viruses might have use for some plasma membrane proteins. Take all you read with a grain of salt. I'm not exactly an expert on this. This stuff is close to my field, but not exactly my field. Also keep in mind that there's much structural diversity in viruses. And finally remember (in regard to thread title) that as far as we know (life only started once on this planet "hypothesis") everything alive on this planet shares a common ancestor.

[edit on 11-4-2010 by rhinoceros]



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 07:52 AM
link   
reply to post by rhinoceros
 


Thanks that was really interesting.


Don't worry I'll take my reading as salt as possible.


The theory actually says this virus finally out smarts nature by not destroying it's host and ensures it's survival.

If I think of the mitochondrion, which started out as a bacteria has early in the history of evolution merged with life. Becoming a part of it.

I don't think that viral eukaryogenesis. is a far fetched idea.

Thanks .

Ps.
At least you got some background basics with this.

I'm learning as we speak.



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 08:02 AM
link   

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
The theory actually says this virus finally out smarts nature by not destroying it's host and ensures it's survival.

No. In case of mimivirus it would be more like:

1. There are bacteria
2. Some genes of that bacteria "form an alliance" and produce the first virus (imo most likely scenario for rise of viruses)
3. Virus starts infecting other cells
4. Virus becomes the nucleus
5. Nucleus becomes mimivirus and starts infecting other cells

Haha.

[edit on 11-4-2010 by rhinoceros]



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 08:13 AM
link   
reply to post by rhinoceros
 


Wait a second.

Nope that's not what the article explains the virus does and that's why it's news.

It clearly states that the mimivirus only steals some resources from the invaded cell from it's cell plasma. After that it just works on it's own.

So not strange at all we need to eat to.

The article also tells about other viruses who are independent like the mimi virus but they still rely on the cells nucleus to produce.

Here you can read it yourself.
article

Edit.
Do to misunderstanding your post in the first place.
I still think I'm right unfortunatly the virus first went to a lot more misery to become what it was way in the past only different.


Strange little thingies.


[edit on 11-4-2010 by Sinter Klaas]



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 08:27 AM
link   
reply to post by Sinter Klaas
 

Nothing I said is contradictory to the article. I just gave a (maybe) most likely sequence of events that gave mimivirus the properties it has.



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 09:56 AM
link   
reply to post by rhinoceros
 


Yeah...


The edit. thingy was meant to say I misunderstood.


You didn't contradict the article one bit.



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 10:36 AM
link   
This is a very interesting find; S&F. Kudos for putting together a series of similar articles for discussion on the "human as virus" meme. Have you come accross this one:

Half-Human/Half-Virus

It seems to fit right in with the theme of your thread.





new topics

top topics



 
11
<<   2 >>

log in

join