Will Derry ever be safe?

I'm entirely unsure if this is the right place to put this, but the only other seemingly fitting place was breaking news, and it's hardly breaking.

I live outside Derry, Northern Ireland, and I work in the city. Though I'm English, I have never had any problems from anyone on either side of the border in the nine years I've lived here. Now, however, there are groups such as the Real IRA, and some new one now, who are promising to step up their...whatever they think it is; campaign? God knows what they think they're doing They promise that places will be blown up; that people WILL die.

I suppose the purpose of this thread is two-fold - first, if anyone happens to be thinking of moving to Derry, I'd recommend thinking again. Second, what does everyone think of this bull#? One of the most discouraging things about this is the amount of supporters they had. I don't know about the lastest one, with the new group, but the one on easter monday was reported to have hundreds of supporters.

We are out in Iraq and Afghanistan in a supposed 'war on terror' and yet we have terrorists right here making threats in public, and not only do the police allow it, but they close bridges and roads to give them a clear path to march! Now I know the police and army tried to rid us of the IRA before and it didn't work out well, but something has to be done.

I know there are members from NI and from Derry itself - what do you think of it? Do you think it's worth just moving away? It disgusts me that this scum can force good people out of their homes

I live in Coleraine, but I grew up in Lisburn, down near Belfast. I'm only 35, so really I missed the worst period of the Troubles, which were in the late 60s and early 70s. However, I've seen enough!

The one lesson we learnt over here from the Troubles is a lesson everyone could stand to learn now. If you give in to fear, the terrorists have won. If you move away, are too scared to leave your house, to travel, to go into town incase there's a bomb scare, then they've won.

The Real IRA will find that they do not have the one thing that they need to carry out a prolonged terror campaign. In the past, they had an amount of public support, or at least public fear. They could rely on people keeping secrets, and their anonymity was assured. I don't think that anyone over here wants things to go back to the way they were, and I don't think the general public will allow any group to again have that amount of control over our lives.

Mark my words, we will never again allow ourselves to be held under terror, whether that terror comes from local groups of paramilitaries, or whether it comes from government agencies.

reply to post by ShadowArcher


Welcome to our world. (See South Africa)

I've been to Derry. It was one of the few places in the UK I really, really liked. But I do remember a lot of latent hostility to anything British (A kid threw a beer can at a swede I was speaking to becaue he thought he was Scottish)

Also I believe a lot of the organised crime their is conducted under the flag of political violence. But I did also get the impression that there were plenty of sensible heads left.

The thing about moving away is that theere will be one sensible head less each time someone does it. When it all comes out of the woodwork and all the good people have fled. Then your chances for de-stabilisation go up.

Lastly I admit that the only time I heard of The Real Ira while I was there was that it was very fringe. Maybe the silence should have spoken volumes.

It would break my heart if the people of Northern Ireland ever allowed themselves to be dragged back into a state of affairs akin to that of The Troubles.

Every Irish person I know, and I know quite a few, regardless of religious / political persuassion, has no desire to allow that to happen.

The Irish people must be strong and not allow these bullying gangsters to terrorise them and politicians from Westminster and Stormont must be resolute and unequivocal in their support of the vast majority from across the divide who oppose the actions of these scumbags!

The Real IRA and other similar organisations only have very limited support at present, yet they have the ability to intimidate and thus enforce support.
They can not be allowed to succeed and turn Northern Ireland into a cesspit of hatred again.

Its none of my business but england do horrendous things to irish people.

I will leave it there.

reply to post by ShadowArcher



And ....


reply to post by TheIrvy




Hows things guys !

I thought i`d chime in , as a citizen of the Republic i can assure you that these disaffected groups have minuscule support south of the border . The county i live in has historically been a stronghold of Nationalist sentiment ..... so let me assure you these people have no support here.

A few hundred members out of a population of 6+ million throughout the whole island North/South is something to be vigilant about but it is no return to those dark days.

These groups now represent a threat to the former members of the IRA and Sein Fein , who have invested their credibility in the political process .
I wouldn`t at all be surprised if Sein Fein /IRA have infiltrated these splinter groups in an effort to thwart them . They are a shadow of the group they splintered from lacking the numbers, training & expertise and most importantly , the support of the community which they purport to represent.

They are trying to goad the security forces into committing some over-reaction , which they can use as a means of recruiting more members & support.


If Northern Ireland at some time in the future joins the Republic let it be with the consent of the majority of it residents. I played my part along with the majority of my fellow countrymen & women , allowing for our constitutional claim to be changed , so as to alleviate the fears of Unionists and to show a level of maturity relating to the provinces future.

We share a bond - we share an island .
We all wish to raise our kids in a safe environment and provide for our families .I know that most sane individuals have no stomach to return to those dark uncertain days .

Slán agus beannacht .

[edit on 10-4-2010 by UmbraSumus]

reply to post by andy1033



Andy, you are becoming so tiresome repeating this anti-English nonsense at every opportunity yet failing to offer anything to support your blind racism and bigotry.

It really is tedious and quite frankly, pretty pathetic!

What annoys me is you are allowed to vent this unsubstantiated racism at will with no reproach yet if any English person was to spout such nonsense and racism at every opportunity about the Irish then I am sure ATS staff would take action.

Still, no less than I have come to expect.

Andy, do us all a favour, either start a thread giving your reasons why you have such a blind and bitter hatred of the English nation and it's people, which would in turn allow us to enter into some reasoned and open debate on the subject, or just stfu and stop spouting your evil message and derailing other threads!

Personally, even though I come from a loyalist background, I believe that England has been pulling the strings of the Troubles from the very beginning. We were and are a test bed, an experiment. Both sides, nationalist and loyalist, were recieving their orders from the mainland.

I think that getting rid of UK rule is essential. We've been under their thumb for so long that the majority believe that rejoining with the republic would be accepting a new master, rather than regaining our own mastery with our brothers and sisters.

reply to post by Freeborn


you should seen what the english did to my life as an irish person in london. I know what the english do from my life and what they did to me is a fact.

English government has absolute hatred for irish people.

Irish people though should not do anything though.

reply to post by UmbraSumus


I'm not sure what 'and...' is supposed to mean here.

I know these assholes are in the minority, but will that stop them? I wonder what can. These newer groups seem to be an excuse for organised crime though, as someone suggested. Drug dealing and the like. I certainly can't see that they could be so stupid as to think that they'd succeed in winning back the north in this way.

I'm not particularly afraid or anything, but I was dragged out of school in England and away from my friends to come over here so that we could try to help people still reeling from the troubles. So we just feel a little like saying "well # you then, if you don't want to help yourselves, why should we?" But i know that the majority DO want to let go of the past and move on; but somehow the voice of the majority is being drwoned out by the voice of the minority.

reply to post by andy1033


Andy, all my grand parents emigrated to England from Ireland, as did many of my friends parents and grand parents.
Teesside and Liverpool are just two large areas of England which have a large proportion of their population made up of people of Irish descent.
Of course it wasn't all roses but they suffered no more than any other immigrants and have gone on and become valued and productive part of both English and British society.

Andy, either put up or shut up and start a thread of it's own or stop constantly derailing other threads with your incessant whining and unsubstantiated racist bigotry.

[edit on 10/4/10 by Freeborn]

Originally posted by andy1033
reply to post by Freeborn

 

you should seen what the english did to my life as an irish person in london. I know what the english do from my life and what they did to me is a fact.

English government has absolute hatred for irish people.

Irish people though should not do anything though.

That is as blind a comment as claiming that all Catholics are IRA supporters and all Protestants are Unionist, Irish-haters (sadly, I've heard those moronic claims). I know of a member of my own family (Irish side)who went to London and went through hell, and eventually moved back. I also know of people who have moved to England and love it and have never had any hassle. Just as I know of English people coming over here only to have the IRA knock down their door and give them 24 hours to leave the city. But as I have said, I have had no trouble; even though I am English, and went to an all-boys Catholic school. And we all know that Catholic = Republican, right?

I don't doubt you've had bad experiences in London, but it is all down to the individual and the individuals they come across.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by ShadowArcher]

reply to post by andy1033


I have to call major BS on what you said there, in all my life I have never ever witnessed anyone from Ireland being given a hard time by the English, perhaps one or two fools gave you a hard time, but that is not all English people is it?

I have a lot of Family who still live all over Ireland, they have never feared coming to Britain ever, they always speak excitedly when they are to visit, they go all over the country and when the opportunity arrives are the life and soul of any occasion.

So as the poster above said, please explain where your English hatred comes from, I have this strong feeling it is nowhere near Ireland, because what you said is crap.

Originally posted by ShadowArcher

I'm not sure what 'and...' is supposed to mean here.

My response was simply addressed to yourself i.e ShadowArcher and TheIrvy . Nothing more sinister that that .....


posted by ShadowArcher

So we just feel a little like saying "well # you then, if you don't want to help yourselves, why should we?"



Who are " we " ?





[edit on 10-4-2010 by UmbraSumus]

reply to post by UmbraSumus


I know it was addressed to me, it said 'a reply to', I just don't know what it was supposed to mean.

And 'we' is my family...nothing more sinister than that

Please don't misunderstand me. I draw a very distinct line between the English people and their government. My own family now live in England, and my nieces are both English.

People tend to be very shortsighted. On this site we talk about how pretty much every terrorist action that has taken place since 9/11 has had a trail of evidence leading back to either the US or UK governments. It is my belief that the troubles in NI were a test run leading up to that. I do not believe that the English people were a part of that, nor do I believe they should be held accountable for it. I have no problem with English people, nor with Irish people from over the border.

Originally posted by ShadowArcher
reply to post by UmbraSumus

 

These newer groups seem to be an excuse for organised crime though, as someone suggested. Drug dealing and the like. I certainly can't see that they could be so stupid as to think that they'd succeed in winning back the north in this way.

It is well known that The IRA, INLA, UDA and UVF collaborated with each other during The Troubles to ensure the smooth supply and control of both drug and gun smuggling.

They were little more than glorified gangsters whose one regret is their loss of control of their respective communities which they had and kept control of through fear.

They manipulate the romantic nature of the Irish peoples to further their own personal agendas and their return must be resisted at all costs.

reply to post by Freeborn


Indeed; but what I mean is, I think that is ALL these news groups are interested in, really. Whereas the IRA of 30 years ago, I'm sure, really did want the North back, and the English out.

reply to post by ShadowArcher
Stay right were you are and wait it out. What we're likely seeing here is the last throes of the minority groups vying for the dregs of power available to them. There's some wanting to control the guns and drugs trade under the BS of 'nationalism' or religion. Others are trying to set up as defenders of the region, area or local people.

What all these folk are after is the control they had. They want power from you and anyone else prepared to give it to them.

You might recall Adair of the UDA? He thrived on violence and bigotry. Maybe five years ago, he turned up and tried to use the same fear tactics to take over the local drug trade and start off the protection game. He lasted two weeks and peed off to Glasgow.

The men of violence are dangerous buggers, but they can only be as strong as society and the locals allow them to be.

Originally posted by ShadowArcher
reply to post by UmbraSumus

 

I know it was addressed to me, it said 'a reply to', I just don't know what it was supposed to mean.

And 'we' is my family...nothing more sinister than that

Ammmm ... you started the thread didn`t you ? So i was replying to you .

You live near Derry , the TheIrvy is from Coleraine and i`m from Co. Kerry . As fellow residents of this island and the first two contributors in the discussion i addressed my comments to the two of you.

Jezus man ` ......... relax ! Reread my post , i`m not trying to start a revolution.