Colombian drug strips users' free will

I just wanted to restate and clear up any misconceptions. This alkaloid has been in use for hundreds of years in almost every continent. It is to many over the counter and prescription antihistamines. If you have ever taken to much benadryl or been on a strong prescription antihistamine and had a twilight dream, then you've felt the same effects this chemical can causes.

This drug could be used to rob some one, but the stories told are embellished. I can tell you for a fact aint no one helping people move their stuff out of their house while high on this. You can't even remember on second to the next while in the throws.

reply to post by ninthaxis


They are defiantly talking about Scoplamine, they are just misconstruing the facts, and feeding the urban legends.

I don't believe that any one could be able to use an atm while under the effects of this. Your skelital muscle dehydrate and tighten to the point that its hard to move, you go next to blind, your memory is completely wrecked, and your seeing and interacting with things that are not there.

Total Duration
8 - 18 hrs

After Effects
6 - 24 hrs

Hangover / Day After
2 - 3 day

Most Common Effects:

* euphoria
* surreal interactions with world
* hallucinations, elaborate interaction with hallucinations
* smoking of phantom cigarettes
* expands bronchial passages (sometimes used to treat asthma)
* loss of appetite, thirst
* inhibits digestion
* clipped, flat speech
* slurred speech
* loss of sense of the passage of time
* dizziness, headache
* dry mouth, dry eyes
* inability to focus eyes (can persist for multiple days)
* nausea, usually without vomiting
* feeling of weakness
* sedation, stupor
* uncoordinated movement
* fear, anxiety, panic
* confusion, delirium, impaired cognitive function
* amnesia
* blockade of sweat glands, impairing heat dispersal
* difficulty breathing
* numbness
* cardiac failure possible at large doses


Scopolamine and atropine are anticholinergic deliriants. Scopolamine has been used hundreds of years for medicinal and visionary purposes in India, Africa, Europe, and the Americas. Its use has been reported in medieval European witchcraft as a "flying ointment."
Unlike the visual effects frequently reported with psychedelics such as '___', Scopolamine causes frank hallucinations, meaning that the person cannot distinguish between the hallucinations and real objects. Elaborate visions and fantasies are common, sometimes including long conversations with imaginary persons. Smoking phantom cigarettes is often reported, even by non-smokers.

Just in from Colombia -- search for scopolamine sources:

www.disinfo.com...

video report

FYI: In my opinion, Colombia gets a horrible wrap and Hollywood certainly has exaggerated the scene. Yes, coc aine is manufactured deep in the jungles due to the tropic nature of growth, but the citizens of Colombia are very anti-drug/anti-violence. It is unfortunate that so many people look down upon Colombians. I have traveled to many, many parts of the world, and out of all those counties, the Colombian people are the nicest, sweetest and most welcoming of them all. Drugs are everywhere! Cartels are everywhere! Cocaine is grown in many other areas in South America. It is just that Pablo Escobar brilliantly makreted the drug violently and made it worldwide known (along with a few other Colombian Cartels).

I leave in two months to vacation in Medellin, Colombia. I will certainly ask around about this "new drug" and report back. Although I don't have the stones to try it out, I'll see if my buddies down there have.

Thanks OP for the head's up.

Well, it is a potentially very powerful drug. It was used, in a pure form, as "truth serum" during WW2 & after. Having experienced plant sources, I'd guess that it would have to be administered in very small doses, slowly building up the delerium to reach an exact point where the subject was totally confused but still able to string thoughts together & speak, in order to use it as truth serum.
The idea that it removes free will is mistaken though. It just produces profound delerium.
You could completely incapacitate somebody with it, rob or rape them, but a victim would never be able to do anything that required complex thought or even keeping focussed on an idea for more than a few moments. Also, it takes a good dose to cause a stupor & after that wears off, you can move around, whilst still hallucinating. Its very dangerous. If you didn't administer enough or hung around until the stupor wore off, you'd be well advised not to provoke the victim, or they could easily become insanely violent.

reply to post by ninthaxis

Although it is good to see young males experimenting........ but Didn't see Anybody high on this hallucinogenic stands to show! What imbeciles these dudes are. Now their waiting for twits that read this Street Rubbish to go Blind from their childish insight!

You try this, you'll go Blind! They Can Not measure the strength, than give it to you, You Try it! A lot of plants around us all will spin us out.
Always try a Known Drug.

Your a twit ninthaxis for laying this "childish Street Rubbish insight" here!


Zelong.

reply to post by CanadianDream420


Have they been putting that in beer? Cause when I have a "few" I buy people I dont know drinks and then wake up in the morning wondering what I got up too..?

The OP's snippet and the report in the link clearly state that the drug in question is scopolamine. This is a very common drug and is used medicinally for motion sickness as well as other things in small doses. If a higher dose is administered, you get an effect kinda like rufies, but nothing like what is being reported here.

As far as I can tell from a bit of quick research, this is mainly rumour brought around by a hoax that has spread.

The fact that the reporters didn't go through with their experiment and actually take the drug speaks volumes to me, as they are still only going on heresay.

Hell, even ITN News here in the UK did one better than that and actually got one of their reporters to take a "legal high" drug on camera (with a doctor on standby) to see what the effects were. It was actually funny as hell although short lived. I can't remember what the substance was before anyone asks.

reply to post by Zelong

You try this, you'll go Blind!

Well, I agree that its dangerous, but there's no point exaggerating. You will not go blind from scopolamine, nor from plants containing the various different mixtures of tropane alkaloids. What does happen is a couple of days being a bit cross-eyed & a bizarre effect on reading that can last a little longer. Text blurs, even if you close 1 eye. The letters jumble up & form random shapes.
There is a danger of 2 different types of poisoning. Either by drastically slowed respiration, or the opposite: extremely rapid heart caused by the atropine content from a plant source, which can lead to a heart attack. The greatest danger is of injury whilst hallucinating. You have only intermittant awareness of your surroundings & such a short attention span. It would be very easy to burn your house down, scald yourself, fall down stairs, wander into traffic etc.
Seriously, if you are a person who takes mad risks for fun, if you wont steer clear of this stuff, make sure you have someone with you that is physically capable of restraining you. Honestly, its one of the most dangerous states I'm aware of.
Oh yeah, its also untrue that you cant remember the experience. Rather, the memories a jumbled up, like a particularly wierd dream. Only the most interesting details stand out.

reply to post by Bunken Drum


I would say you've got it just about right. I remembered pretty clearly the many conversations I had with a good friend who wasn't actually there the day in question. There was lots of broken glass in my house until I finally got some equilibrium back.

Perhaps one of the most dangerous things is that there is a fine line between consuming enough to feel the effects and consuming too much so that you die. There is a site somewhere with that info.

The movie talks about not the tea that one makes with the leaves and flowers but some sort of distillate that isolates and/or concentrates an ingredient. That product may have different effects than the whole plant.

You can buy these at any garden centre. The flowers are beautiful and the aroma intoxicating (in a safe way). As for the high, its best left to a supervised session with a shaman or guide in the know, or at minimum a friend to keep you safe.

Originally posted by Kaytagg
Why didn't they bring some back to the states and let scientists study it?


Seems like it would be something worth studying..

It's also called "Burundanga" (buur-run-dang-eh) and the "CIA drug".. it's rumored to be the drug of choice used by govts to coerce people into committing suicide..

It works like rohypnol, but stronger.

reply to post by wayno Yeah, phantom conversations are apparently common. I experienced them.

sort of distillate that isolates and/or concentrates an ingredient. That product may have different effects than the whole plant.

Well, extracting alkaloids from plant material is very easy. Its not that hard to purify them into a crystaline solid. What is not possible, without a good understanding of chemistry & a reasonable level of equipment, is to seperate the alkaloids from each other. So an extract that can be easily made will have the same effect as the plant material.
A few people have mentioned rohypnol. Its really not like that stuff at all, except in as much as it mangles you (I've had to have it before complex mouth surgery).

I think the REAL story here is to NOT DRINK LOTS OF ALCOHOL, and THEN take this drug.


I've done a lot of really stupid stuff while drunk, and all these stories involve lots and lots of alcohol, with a little bit of drug.. Based on what people who have tried it are saying, the drug isn't so bad. All the stories in the OP video involve craploads of alcohol, followed by a dosing of this drug. Hrmm.. I'm beginning to see a pattern.

reply to post by Kaytagg

Based on what people who have tried it are saying, the drug isn't so bad.

Wrong!

In a very small amount it does nothing but give you dry mouth. In a stronger dose it completely debilitates you by at first completely shutting down your large muscles -- you can't move. There is potential for your breathing to stop entirely. When you begin to be able to move you feel sicker than a dog.

When you are able to move better you move about and do things that have absolutely no rationale - you are essentially in a walking dream state. You see and hear things that are not there. You do not see things that are right in front of your eyes.

It is potentially very dangerous, and often very unpleasant. The effects of a large dose last 12 hours or more, and the after-effects for days.

This is NOT a recreational drug whatsoever. If it has a place in human experience at all, I would limit that to controlled circumstances only such as spiritual ceremonies under knowledgeable supervision only.

From what I've read of this substance, you don't "feel" it so much per se. Ie, you don't get a "body buzz," you just suddenly find yourself extremely delirious and hallucinating, and often you don't even remember what happens yourself, someone else who saw you has to tell you about it.

And like I said, I've read numerous people saying this stuff affects their speech and reading abilities, as if those parts of their brain are negatively affected even after the drug wears off.

reply to post by KaytaggYou make a good point about alcohol, but its wholly wrong to think this stuff is only dangerous after drinking. I disagree with wayno on a couple of points tho.
I've never experienced nausea from it, rather dizziness from which nausea was conspicuously absent. That could be explained by other constituents of a particular plant source. Pure scopolamine is used to reduce nausea against motion sickness & is an antispasmodic also, so suppresses vomiting. These effects are overcome by the strong purgative effects of a constituent of Mandrake, which also contains the same drug, so I'd not be surprised to find that kind of thing in other species.
Also, a small amount does have an effect. A light headed dislocation which can become lethargy. I expect that this effect combined with a lot of alcohol would result in the kind of stupor that booze alone produces much easier. Of course, drunkenness is something else that readily causes vomiting, especially when dizzy, so I'd say there's an increased danger of choking on puke.
Where wayno & I are in complete agreement is that this stuff should not be messed with but treated with the greatest respect. Something else that occured to me is that a person who gave this to another without their knowledge could easily be charged with attempted murder.
Edit to add: just in case anyone thinks that light headed lethargy sounds fun, its not euphoric at all, just very wierd.

[edit on 8/4/10 by Bunken Drum]

reply to post by bsbray11 Thats pretty much it, except that the effect on the memory isn't as bad as many of the stories suggest. As a "date rape drug", for instance, it would be very unreliable. The victim would not remember everything, nor necessarily events in the right order & their recollections would be interspersed with hallucinations, but they would remember pertinent details, like where they were & with whom. Crucially, they would remember everything leading up to delerium perfectly well.Oh yeah, somebody mentioned that the effects last 8-18hrs. Actually the delerium can last longer. As much as a whole day. Also, when it starts to wear off, you can drift back into it for a few hours at a time. Then there's a few days for all the effects to fully wear off. Oops! I also forgot to mention photophobia as a persistent side effect - about 2 days of it.

reply to post by Bunken Drum


ya, but it's very important to remember that 100% of these stories involve copious amounts of alcohol drinking supplementing the drugs.. Alcohol can definitely impair your memory, it can also make you more likely to do things you wouldn't ordinarily do.. I'd say alcohol probably plays a huge role in using this drug as a "mind control substance."

I dont think they had one story where they were able to get people to do things they didn't want to WITHOUT it involving alcohol as a supplement