Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist
...Christianity is not any kind of "mish-mash. Many faiths ARE though. In fact, most non-Christian (and even some so-called "Chrisitian" ones) will become a blur of various beliefs all the more so in coming days.

Modern Christianity derives from a pagan empire and a council of bishops overseen by a pagan emperor. It is, to use the phrase employed earlier, a 'mish-mash' of preceding beliefs and holy days. Hence the reason you celebrate the rebirth of your savior the same time pagans celebrated their fertility holiday. You celebrate the birth of your savior on a day that fell within the Roman Saturnalia, a week long event of revelry.

The divinity of Christ was settled not by God himself, but by a group of men whose leader was not even a Christian. Prior to this time it was not universal belief among Christians that Jesus was divine nor did everyone agree where the 'Kingdom of Heaven' was located, either here on Earth or in the afterlife.

Many of the miracles ascribed to Christ were also credited to others. E.G., Vespasian, the first century Roman Emperor, was credited with curing a blind man prior to the Gospel of John being written.

To think that Christianity arose uninfluenced by preceding and contemporary beliefs is rather historically short-sighted.








[edit on 10-4-2010 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Modern Christianity derives from a pagan empire and a council of bishops overseen by a pagan emperor.

The divinity of Christ was settled not by God himself, but by a group of men whose leader was not even a Christian. Prior to this time it was not universal belief among Christians that Jesus was divine

[edit on 10-4-2010 by AugustusMasonicus]

The belief in the divinity of Christ was well established in the church long before the Nicene Council.
The function of the Council was to decide that one particular kind of statement about Christ (i.e. the Arian teaching) was not compatible with that understanding.

I don't, personally, believe that Constantine had anything to do with the chosen wording of the Council. I think the church leaders just flattered him by allowing him to be the spokesman, and look statesmanlike.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
The belief in the divinity of Christ was well established in the church long before the Nicene Council.
The function of the Council was to decide that one particular kind of statement about Christ (i.e. the Arian teaching) was not compatible with that understanding.

Please re-read what I posted. I never stated that belief in the divinity of Chirst was not established prior to the Council of Nicea. I stated that the divinity of Chirst was settled at the Council of Nicea, which in fact it was. There was, however, no unanimous consenus among Christians on how to view Jesus in relation to God before the Council adopted this measure.

The thing that people need to remember here is that in freemasonry, the majority of the people who participate in it have nothing to do with the supposed darker schemes. Only the very highest of positions in the Freemasons reveals any of the big picture plans, the rest are unwitting sheep just like the rest of us.

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist
Now back to God… and network dude’s question. What we think of God means nothing. At least nothing that has any bearings on what He is, or chooses to do. Just like my art can’t justifiably complain to me if it doesn’t care for the stroke of its eyes.

See network dude, My God has a name. Actually, many. But dig, while you guys are willing to call Him by any name anybody from "Adam" to the "Cat in the Hat" laid on Him, I only use the names He gave Himself. The key here is that all the names God gave Himself refer to one, particular, entity. Not our man-made crowd of candidates.

While I do in time, intend to expound on my statements hereafter, I’m getting a bit ahead of myself and my time is slipping. Yet I did want to let network dude and some of you others know what’s up with my God.

And just for the record His names are: Jehovah, Jesus Christ and The Holy Ghost. 3 in 1, 1 in 3. Many other names He has, but you know who I mean.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]

OK, we have a slight disagreement. I think what we think of God means everything. He obviously doesn't need any of us to stoke his ego, or pat his back, he already knows how good he is. But we, need to know who he is to us. Personally. Because in the end, that guy who is pretending to be a person of strong religious conviction, while he sleeps around with wives in the church, has to have that talk with God one day. One on one. But I like your analogy of art. Art has many different meanings to many different people, but it's beauty is universal.

And I just call him God. When I asked him if that was OK, he said yea.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by network dude]

Ok definition time.
There were many interesting but erroneous things said in this thread so far that need correcting and while I will try to address most of the larger ones in future posts, this reply is not aimed at any of them
--but the biggest.
The most pervasive confusion yet (one that touches the very heart of so many of your comments) misstates a simple, foundational truth and really needs to be correct before it gets placed on our examining table. When we mention something specific and important (that is not a belief or opinion), we need to be in agreement about the definition. If we aren’t, even simple meanings can become complex misunderstandings. Not because of viewpoint but because of syntax. Thus we must pause at this juncture to insure that what we are actually referring to is what we intend to be referring to. Case and point?
Christians are not Catholic.
That title (not the “Catholic” one —I mean their other title) you and most in “the world” loves to use to describe Catholicism, is, oddly enough, in the Bible I read, about as far from what they call themselves as I told you I was from Catholicism itself.
Neither do I call her the “Great Mother” or “Mother Church”. But I DO call Catholicism a “her”, because the Bible refers to her as female. And actually even a mother too. (I’ll bet some smarty-pants just caught what I said but don’t quite get it. …yea.) The Catholic system IS mentioned in the bible. But I bet everybody here already knows all about that. And where it is too. Right? …Right. I could tell what the bible calls her outright, but I want this to remain a wholesome, family thread.
-for now.
The inappropriate but enduringly popular moniker THEY use on THEMSELVES (by now its clear I mean, “The Church”) makes most on the outside of the kind of Christianity the Bible teaches, think, just as you are supposed to, that—
at least when referring to the Pope’s organization,
this title IS, and for any and all practical purposes, MEANS in EVERY case- Christianity itself.
But kids, really, it just don’t.
You mention all the agreements and decisions THEY made at THEIR councils and meetings about how this concept is to be thought of concerning God, and that idea is to be believed by order of this think-tank or that guy in a big hat… but those were all Catholic meetings, ideas and teachings. And they don’t decide squat for me or those who read and follow The Word and His Holy Spirit.
All of you need to go back and look at my post about NOT being Catholic. Its short but to the point. I didn’t insult the thing, but I did say that I stay far from it.
Why then would I say that if I was Catholic? Many of your comments rest on the logic that they are one and the same. My view of that organization however rests on feeling the way the Bible, history and especially current events tend to view that organization. The slant of your arguments gentlemen (and ladies) is based on the assumption that if someone is Christian, they must be Catholic. This is off.
I know who the Catholics are and what they are all about. If you want I can even post more pictures than anyone would have time to look at from the Vatican itself taken during all but one of my 3 or 4 research trips there. Or I can post pictures of them bowing down and honoring wood statures from various locations during my study of their beliefs. Not that I’ve had to do too much to really understand them. I used to regularly attend mass myself. Oh I know.
I DO bow to the general pattern emerging on this thread- at least partially- that yes, there is evidence of Catholicism being a mish-mash, but to cut and paste Catholic beliefs on Christianity itself is a lie and shows you don’t really understand it the way you think you do. To say THEY merged various pagan religions would be, and IS a truth. In fact, I saw proof of it being much more (or much less, depending how you look at it). There is more pagan symbolism in and around the Vatican than there are bricks.

[edit on 11-4-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]

I would appreciate it if you did not talk to me as if I were an idiot. There is a difference and you should learn what it is before telling me what I believe.
Of course I am well able to assist any interested right here.
Oh and just for the record, I don’t celebrate Jesus’ birth. Mankind made that holiday up. Just like most others “The Church” and millions all over the world celebrate. This is another example of the kind of “Christian” TRUE followers of Jesus aren’t. We don’t keep to traditions of mere men. We march only to the tune of His Word and His Holy Spirit. He never taught doing that anyhow.
Ya’ll don’t know me.
Or Christianity for that matter.
You just think you do because you have been drowning in the patterns of this age. You are convinced that they are true because you are supposed to and because it is time for that line of thought to become prevalent in "the world".
I you think nobody ever heard of “Saturnalia” but you?
What, do you mock me?
You’ll have to step 'yo game up more than this if you want to show me anything new about what the Catholic system is and ain’t, and what Christianity is and ain’t.
Once you’ve found out the difference you might begin to see….
“da-da-dun-duuuuuuunnnnn--!”
the “light”.
PS- I also respectfully just wanted to mention- perhaps for the deepening of this thread- that I am a prophet. Yep. God really talks to me. Not yet with a voice that sounds like Morgan Freeman or James Earl Jones but with various modes of communication including but not limited to: visions, dreams and sensations. Controversial, for some I'm sure but absolutely true nonetheless. And don’t think that because He hasn’t spoken to me audibly His communications aren’t or can’t be specific. They can be shockingly specific.
I pray He reveals Himself to you all. But He won’t unless you really want Him to and have the right heart.
G7 out.

[edit on 11-4-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist
I would appreciate it if you did not talk to me as if I were an idiot. There is a difference and you should learn what it is before telling me what I believe.

woa! I don't think anyone here has done that. If I did, I do apologize.

Of course I am well able to assist any interested right here.
Oh and just for the record, I don’t celebrate Jesus’ birth. Mankind made that holiday up. Just like most others “The Church” and millions all over the world celebrate. This is another example of the kind of “Christian” TRUE followers of Jesus aren’t. We don’t keep to traditions of mere men. We march only to the tune of His Word and His Holy Spirit. He never taught doing that anyhow.
Ya’ll don’t know me.
Or Christianity for that matter.
You just think you do because you have been drowning in the patterns of this age. You are convinced that they are true because you are supposed to and because it is time for that line of thought to become prevalent in "the world".
I you think nobody ever heard of “Saturnalia” but you?
What, do you mock me?
You’ll have to step 'yo game up more than this if you want to show me anything new about what the Catholic system is and ain’t, and what Christianity is and ain’t.
Once you’ve found out the difference you might begin to see….
“da-da-dun-duuuuuuunnnnn--!”
the “light”.

I am a confirmed Catholic but found that after I gained enough brain power to think for myself, I don't agree with some of what the Catholic church represents. ( I didn't mean that derogatory, just when your a kid, you do what you are told.) I understand that you aren't a Catholic. When I say "the church", I guess I am referring to the groups of fundamentalists I have encountered on the web and here. Since this is to be a learning experience for all involved, please elaborate on your group. Are you part of a specific one? Where did you learn all about masonry? ( I am eluding to the original point of trying to find out when and where we start worshiping Lucifer)

PS- I also respectfully just wanted to mention- perhaps for the deepening of this thread- that I am a prophet. Yep. God really talks to me. Not yet with a voice that sounds like Morgan Freeman or James Earl Jones but with various modes of communication including but not limited to: visions, dreams and sensations. Controversial, for some I'm sure but absolutely true nonetheless. And don’t think that because He hasn’t spoken to me audibly His communications aren’t or can’t be specific. They can be shockingly specific.
I pray He reveals Himself to you all. But He won’t unless you really want Him to and have the right heart.
G7 out.

I don't want to diminish your statement, but He talks to me too. And many other people I have talked to. Like you said, no booming voice from a burning bush yet, but thoughts, songs on the radio, direction when I am lost.(spiritually lost, I have GPS for the road) I thought all you had to do was talk to him first.

The square is to remind us to square our actions and the compasses to circumscribe and keep us within due bounds with all mankind.

The compasses to circumscribe "our desires" and keep us within due bounds with all mankind

Made no sense without the other two words. Not to nitpick, just to clarify for those trying to make sense.

This thread has been pretty A+ so far.

Can't wait to hear more.

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist
Symbols however never lie. Now while I can be sure I don’t know all the symbols Masonry uses or all of their meanings, I’ll bet none of you do either. But some of the ones I do know and understand are too close to too many Luciferian ones to just be coincidence.

If satanism decides today to use a Cristian cross as a satanic symbol, that would not make that cross satanic.

The symbols used in masonry were there long before satanism existed. The fact is, if satanism adopted any of them, that is satanism's business, not Freemasonry's.

Freemasonry used them first.

[edit on 12/4/2010 by Saurus]

Originally posted by Taskism

The compasses to circumscribe "our desires" and keep us within due bounds with all mankind

Made no sense without the other two words. Not to nitpick, just to clarify for those trying to make sense.

This thread has been pretty A+ so far.

Can't wait to hear more.

thanks for the fix. I got so caught up in looking for the link, I rushed my part.

Originally posted by Saurus


The symbols used in masonry were there long before satanism existed. The fact is, if satanism adopted any of them, that is satanism's business, not Freemasonry's.

I'm not aware of the satanists even using any symbols of Freemasonry. LaVey hijacked Eliphas Levi's pictorial allegory of Baphomet without having understood its meaning, but even Levi's Baphomet is not a Masonic symbol.

The issue with symbols is they change meanings a good deal.
The pentagram, for example, has had a number of interpretations over the years.
It's a symbol that wards off evil, a symbol of Christ when inverted, a symbol of Satan when inverted.