Obama Man: Raise Taxes, Start European-Style VAT

Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

(Reuters) - The United States should consider raising taxes to help bring deficits under control and may need to consider a European-style value-added tax, White House adviser Paul Volcker said on Tuesday.

Volcker, answering a question from the audience at a New York Historical Society event, said the value-added tax "was not as toxic an idea" as it has been in the past and also said a carbon or other energy-related tax may become necessary.

Though he acknowledged that both were still unpopular ideas, he said getting entitlement costs and the U.S. budget deficit under control may require such moves. "If at the end of the day we need to raise taxes, we should raise taxes," he said.

Reuters Source

Is Obama getting ready to put the final nail in the coffin of the U.S.?

Evidently the idea of cutting unconstitutional "entitlements" never entered the thoughtstream.

Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 6/4/2010 by Mirthful Me]

He might as well just say, hey we are going to flat tax the top 20%, 60% of their gross...hehe But no he needs to say that if you have the ability to spend money or live a good life we need to hit you with so many small taxes we can still say that your fed taxes will not go up.

I'm still waiting on the fat tax, as in fast foods being tax to hell....

Im NOT gonna pay anymore taxes
come get my a$$
throw me in jail
I am sick and tired
of taxes
and being forced to
pay for mistakes
I didnt cause

sorry for the rant

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but a VAT will hit businesses the hardest correct? It's basically a tax on their markup right or am I mistaken?

reply to post by brainwrek


Depends on how it's implemented, but in the European systems I've worked, wholesale/supplier businesses shovel it around with paperwork and get a credit from the government back on it and ultimately the consumer pays it in full and the cash trickles back into the system. Technically there's tax throughout the entire product life cycle but the big business part is mostly bookkeeping and special reporting on VAT sales.
Like anything else it comes out of the people's pockets, the government just kinda borrows it from the supply chain until the consumer pays. Conceptually of course.

gj

VAT vs. sales tax:

Example
Consider the manufacture and sale of any item, which in this case we will call a widget. In what follows , the term "gross margin" is used rather than "profit". Profit is only what is left after paying other costs, such as rent and personnel.

Without any tax

A widget manufacturer spends $1.00 on raw materials and uses them to make a widget.
The widget is sold wholesale to a widget retailer for $1.20, making a gross margin of $0.20.
The widget retailer then sells the widget to a widget consumer for $1.50, making a gross margin of $0.30.

With a North American (Canadian provincial and U.S. state) sales tax
With a 10% sales tax:-

The manufacturer pays $1.00 for the raw materials, certifying it is not a final consumer.
The manufacturer charges the retailer $1.20, checking that the retailer is not a consumer, leaving the same gross margin of $0.20.
The retailer charges the consumer $1.65 ($1.50 + $1.50x10%) and pays the government $0.15, leaving the gross margin of $0.30.
So the consumer has paid 10% ($0.15) extra, compared to the no taxation scheme, and the government has collected this amount in taxation. The retailers have not paid any tax directly (it is the consumer who has paid the tax), but the retailer has to do the paperwork in order to correctly pass on to the government the sales tax it has collected. Suppliers and manufacturers only have the administrative burden of supplying correct certifications, and checking that their customers (retailers) aren't consumers.

With a value added tax
With a 10% VAT:

The manufacturer pays $1.10 ($1 + $1x10%) for the raw materials, and the seller of the raw materials pays the government $0.10.
The manufacturer charges the retailer $1.32 ($1.20 + $1.20x10%) and pays the government $0.02 ($0.12 minus $0.10), leaving the same gross margin of $0.20.
The retailer charges the consumer $1.65 ($1.50 + $1.50x10%) and pays the government $0.03 ($0.15 minus $0.12), leaving the gross margin of $0.30 (1.65-1.32-.03).
With VAT, the consumer has paid, and the government received, the same as with sales tax. The businesses have not incurred any tax themselves. Their obligation is limited to assuming the necessary paperwork in order to pass on to the government the difference between what they collect in VAT (output tax, an 11th of their sales) and what they spend in VAT (input VAT, an 11th of their expenditure on goods and services subject to VAT). However the are freed from any obligation to to request certifications from purchasers who are not end users, and of providing such certifications to their suppliers.

Note that in each case the VAT paid is equal to 10% of the gross margin, or 'value added'.

Source is Wikipedia.

Here is what iI see, The democrats want to raise taxes.

So they will raise taxes to about double what is needed.(what they have done in Calif.)

Then when the economy returns to normal they will not roll back the taxes.

The democrats then will use the money on there favorite appease there voting public projects.

When these taxes are no longer needed the democrats will find ways to spend the extra and when something happens like another economic downturn they will have spent the extra money and then want to raise taxes even more.

All you have to do is look at how the democrats have raped the tax payers in Calif to see what can happen.
How they buy votes by paying the off unions here in calif with big contracts.

We should take a good hard look at Europe. How is it working out over there ? I personally think they are about to brake apart at the seems under the weight of the progressive mindset. They keep taking form countries like Germany and giving to countries like Greece what do you think is going to happen in 5-10 years? WAR--- this EU thing is not going to work and this was the grand progressive plan see it for what it is a failure.



The progressive plan is a lie based in lies. Democrats it is time to wake up and take your party back. Don't let them take you down with them they have drained enough of your blood. Time to cut them off and let them fend for themselves and let America really see what they want.



Hitler and Stalin were both progressives. They wanted social justice and for things to be fair. Hmm were have I recently heard that.


[edit on 7-4-2010 by Subjective Truth]

I think he should raise all taxes I think income tax should go up to 80%. Course they could take 100% and the deficit would still never get paid off.

But the reason I think he should raise taxes anywhere he can is because I am sick of this sh!t and the sooner the American people feel enough pain to finally say enough we aren't going to take it anymore the better. Lets get this party started I am tired of this nickle and dime crap!

In fact why don't the do an air tax and guesstimate the amount of air everyone breaths and tax that and how about a sunshine tax the more sunny days the more revenues they collect.

So please bring on the taxes and the pain America needs to be refined and renewed in the fires of pain and suffering because she sure won;t change her ways any other way!

reply to post by hawkiye


They wont do it they want it to be slow so we do not wake up from our apathy.

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
We should take a good hard look at Europe. How is it working out over there ? I personally think they are about to brake apart at the seems ...

From the Europeans I occasionally converse with, they seem to think the exact same thing about us. Any day now the dollar will collapse and the euro will start being the dominant currency in the world markets, in addition to the absurdity of denying health care to poor people.

Hitler and Stalin were both progressives. They wanted social justice and for things to be fair. Hmm were have I recently heard that.

Oh yeah, Hitler really wanted to be fair...

reply to post by links234


Obviously you have not studied history so I will give a quick lesson so gather around.



Hitler was a leader of a labor movement and wanted fair treatment of the common man this is how he rose to power. He wanted the people of Germany to brake free of their shackles put in place after WW1.


Also he loved the progressive movement started in the early 1900 century in the US. He believed that social engineering was the way to go and that the individual rights did not outweigh the rights of the group.


Communism is also set up this way with individual rights taking a back seat. This is the flaw because you chase a dream that you can never get. But in reality you get it when you give the rights to the individual. Just like our founding fathers did. Hitler was about helping his people just like the progressive are about helping their people.



This is why Obama gets compared to him. Hitler also wanted health care reform so that they could ration care and also to kill the useless. This is were socialized medicine leads when the money dries up. And also why gas chambers were invented they were first used on the retarded. But this was to much for the German people so they used them on the Jews.



If we dont look into the past we are destined to repeat it. Hitler was not a fascist he was a progressive. And he was the head of a labor party. These are the facts like them or not.



Also look at German propaganda they made the useless and the Jews out to be against the common good of the whole. Does this sound familiar? The sheep need to start to read and study and wake up.





[edit on 7-4-2010 by Subjective Truth]

so, am I getting this right??
with the vat tax, everyone is counting on the product to be sold, so that all the books can be balanced???

hey, this one's easy...
just don't buy the products!!! books aren't balanced, they have one heck of a headache, tax goes away!
and you find more money in your pocket...maybe, till they find another way to take it from you.

NY and just about every country and city in the state is whining they need more money....mine is also. but, then they've all managed to dig up 12.4 million dollars to replace a popular pool with a not so wanted sport arena for a community college. what the hey, they are all crying proverty while at the same time acting like a rich oil tycoon with plenty of money to blow!

curb the spending, then come talk to us about vats and more taxes!!!

Originally posted by links234

From the Europeans I occasionally converse with, they seem to think the exact same thing about us. Any day now the dollar will collapse and the euro will start being the dominant currency in the world markets, in addition to the absurdity of denying health care to poor people.

Our GNP is the bottom line and is close to all of EU combined, so until that takes a big hit I don't see the dollar going away anytime soon.

NAH! OBama PROMISED that no one making less than $250K a year would see a dime in tax increases. According to a majority of people on this site, Obama NEVER breaks his promises and ALWAYS does what he says. So this is just pure BS! I think you're just a racist bigot who hates seeing a black man as President.

*Sarcasm mechanism reset to off*

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
reply to post by hawkiye

 

They wont do it they want it to be slow so we do not wake up from our apathy.

Well a big part of that apathy is that 50% or better of Americans don't really pay direct Fed/state taxes and are ignorant or lazy to see all the small taxes around them that get hiked pennies at a time. So we have the top 20%ers who basically get raped, but really have no majority power to do a thing about it.

reply to post by Subjective Truth


Do you have any idea what you're talking about with regards to the rise of Hitler and the NAZI party or do you just draw lines between pictures like Glenn Beck to prove your non-existent point? Until you can tell me exactly where health care was a major platform of the NAZI party and what point they started using gas chambers on Jews because it was more popular than being used on the invalid I have to say, you need to brush up on your history.

reply to XtrozeroOur GNP is the bottom line and is close to all of EU combined, so until that takes a big hit I don't see the dollar going away anytime soon.

I don't either, but that doesn't mean the Europeans don't see it happening. Just as ST see Europe 'breaking apart at the seams.'

Originally posted by boondock-saint
Im NOT gonna pay anymore taxes
come get my a$$
throw me in jail
I am sick and tired
of taxes
and being forced to
pay for mistakes
I didnt cause

sorry for the rant

Didn't you say you have been unemployed for the past 3 years in another thread???

I'm just saying...I don't think you are probably paying many taxes.

Don't worry beck and oriley never got together and talked about a tax live on the air, and it was never called the vat tax. Oh and don't try to youtube it because the video never existed.

Oh yeah, and its Conservative to call for a constitutional convention to install a VAT tax paid directly to the people who loaned us money to fight the 2 wars that were never declared by congress.

Beck is a #ing fraud, Its so conservative to call for a tax to pay bankers,who are robing this country blind.

This goes way more than dem republican, this is about oligarchs using there wealth through Local governments to institutionalize the fleecing of millions of individuals.

bankers rule both parties play them against each other wile they skate with your assets. Then bring in socialism to cover there getaway,then facisim comes in and the real pain begins.

Be like Iceland, they told there debt holders to go to hell. We should do the same.

reply to post by links234


Go and read about it for yourself just like I did. I am not a expert but I dont need to be this is a pretty well know story. READ I really liked Hitler's pope. It really brought it home for me just how the world viewed him at this time.



And just to clarify because you must not have understood my last post it helps if you read sloooower. Hitler started using the gas chambers on the useless and the retards and the German people found out about it and they forced him to stop. So they used them on the Jews this is a fact go and read for yourself. Then come and argue it with me.

[edit on 8-4-2010 by Subjective Truth]