Can science explain Heaven in NDEs? They're working on it.

There are many NDE cases where people that are under hear conversations that take place, roam the halls and witness events (even mundane) that are not physically possible to witness. Even those that "astral travel" can tell you what an OBE feels like. (if indeed it is true) I don't think science will ever be able to conclusively identify what NDEs really are. I don't buy it. Sorry...

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On a side note, people need to remember when you see an article like this you have to ask these questions. (which some might be answered by the article in question)

Is this study published? If so was this evidence reviewed by peers in the scientific community? Who? How many? Did any of them disagree and why? How where the experiments conducted? Where the methods relevant to come to a sound conclusion? What type of study was it?

Just because one scientist or even a group says something it doesn't mean it is fact. That is the glory of science. Peer review is essential.

Penny Sartori, a former intensive-care-unit nurse, is an authority on near-death experiences, who earned herself an apparently genuine Ph.D. on the basis of her researches into the phenomenon. She believes there are some elements of some reported NDEs that cannot be explained physiologically.

I say she's wrong, and that her research methods (one-on-one interviews) and reasoning both show massive confirmation bias. Notice that, in the linked article, the one nod towards falsifiably (symbols stuck on top of EEG monitors, invisible from the patient's position on the bed but presumably readable by his astral body wobbling about somewhere near the ceiling) was... falsified.

The rest of the article amply demonstrates the lability of her experimental method. Wonder who her thesis panel were? They need a good sound kicking.

I would like to link to a thread I posted some years ago, about Pim van Lommel and his peer reviewed study about near-death experiences..


www.abovetopsecret.com...

And another link about veridical/verified perceptions in NDE's...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 29-3-2010 by TheBandit795]

Originally posted by nomorecruelty

Originally posted by OnceReturned
reply to post by nomorecruelty

 

Doctors, who hold MD degrees, state that the human brain cannot survive non activity (death) without oxygen more than 4-6 minutes.

im not so sure of this ive explained to you on another thread that there are people trapped under ice for two hours and have been revived by paremedics and are now fine just fine the 4 to six minutes is just the norm
you are taking experts words on this and though they are experts they are still people
and people make mistakes

[edit on 29-3-2010 by ashanu90]

(bbcode)

[edit on Mon Mar 29 2010 by Jbird]

Originally posted by Aquarius1
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

Speaking of dying, I was a hospice nurse and I saw three of my patients leave their bodies at the moment of death, doctors and nurses have also witnessed this numerous times, more and more families witness the same these days as they are encouraged to stay in the room with their loved ones when death is eminent, now can science explain that?

i seriously doubt that ive seen lots of people die and guess what? they just die nothing supernatural about it. its sad and hurtul but i imagine a grieving person can trick themselves into seeing anything

also in your words what does "leaving the body" look like?

i dont take stock in any of it
try looking up energy manifestation instead of supernatural

I like a world where there remains some things that science cannot explain, thus keeping a shadow of a doubt over death et al. I hope science does not conclusively work this problem out.

Let's live in a world where there are things that are unexplained. It's more interesting.

Regards

Originally posted by nomorecruelty

Can "scientists" ever explain this? Probably not. People should understand that while science sometimes plays a part in the physical events surrounding an experience, sometimes these things cannot be explained away using science.[edit on 28-3-2010 by nomorecruelty]

bs science will eventually explain everything ever if we as a race will survive technological adolescence. think the fact of the matter is that you dont want it to for fear of being wrong. aliens apparently visit us all the time from what i hear,
so if this is true then they can more than likeley explain these things better than any human could,
being that they have a much higher understanding of quantum physichs and what not.

the question remains if they can do why can't we? what makes us so different from them? my answer is time
the time it took for them to get where they are scintifically and the time it takes for us to get to their point

i imagine im a bit off the subject

reply to post by BellaMente


I'm with BellaMente on this.

I would also like to add that there is evidence of people living consecutive lives that goes right along with this.

If we truly are spiritual beings then religion at least has a seed of truth.

Science and spirituality are not antithetical.

HAHA explain heaven, that is pretty self righteous of that man. Maybe an NDE because it is a physical experience. But to debunk heaven is basically saying he understands the notion of infinity and the unknown, which is impossible for the human brain.

reply to post by Idiot232


and what evidence is that? somebodies dream?
i dont know man ive heard some crazy ideas

reply to post by Maddogkull


and what makes you say it is a physical expieriance? just because you want it be?
whats your evidence/theory?

reply to post by ashanu90


Okay maybe I used the wrong words with an NDE to imply physical experience. I meant that with an NDE we have certain ways to measure brainwaves and look at the brain until death. After death it is another whole ball game witch science (up to today’s point) cannot figure out. Now there are certain things we can do to maybe explain an NDE, EEG, theory’s (doesn’t make it right though). That being said, I said before we cannot measure heaven. There is no way possible we can prove or disprove it because it does not have to do with anything in this universe, it exists outside the bubble (if heaven does exist). So to say you can prove heaven does not exist is just stupid.

Originally posted by Maddogkull
reply to post by ashanu90

 

Okay maybe I used the wrong words with an NDE to imply physical experience. I meant that with an NDE we have certain ways to measure brainwaves and look at the brain until death. After death it is another whole ball game witch science (up to today’s point) cannot figure out. Now there are certain things we can do to maybe explain an NDE, EEG, theory’s (doesn’t make it right though). That being said, I said before we cannot measure heaven. There is no way possible we can prove or disprove it because it does not have to do with anything in this universe, it exists outside the bubble (if heaven does exist). So to say you can prove heaven does not exist is just stupid.

interesting but im not convincved the brain dumping i crapton of chemichals in your body seems more logical

It is not logical, we need way more evidence...WAY more evidence to even consider a NDE is just a physical phenomenon.

Originally posted by OnceReturned
reply to post by nomorecruelty

 

It would mean that consciousness wasn't based on the brain. There's too much evidence that it is.

Really now?

There are scientist out there that don't agree with your statement and in fact hold a totally different view from yours.

I think you would be hard pressed to provide actual scientific proof of your statement.

Here is one scientist that does not believe what you stated and there are many more that have researched and published who don't believe that consciousness originates in the brain.

Robert Lanza, M.D. is considered one of the leading scientists in the world. He is currently Chief Scientific Officer at Advanced Cell Technology, and Adjunct Professor at Wake Forest University School of Medicine. He has hundreds of publications and inventions, and over 20 scientific books: among them, “Principles of Tissue Engineering,” which is recognized as the definitive reference in the field.

“Biomedical researcher Robert Lanza has been on the frontier of cloning and stem cell studies for more than a decade, so he’s well-acclimated to controversy,” writes Alan Boyle, MSNBC.com’s Science Editor. “But his book ‘Biocentrism’ is generating controversy on a different plane by arguing that our consciousness plays a central role in creating the cosmos. ‘By treating space and time as physical things, science picks a completely wrong starting point for understanding the world,’ Lanza declares.

Source

reply to post by etshrtslr


so he ivents a bunch of crap writes a few books and everyone hails him as a genius?
i think you only like this scientist because his theories coincide with your beliefs.

have you actually read through his book? or do you just take it on faith? come up with your own theory

i had to learn that the hard way myself

Science doesn't even know what energy or force is - how can they explain everything if they can't get the fundamentals??

reply to post by ashanu90


But the more interesting question is, have you read his books?? So before debunking it i should say read them first

[edit on 29-3-2010 by Maddogkull]

reply to post by Maddogkull


no ive never even heard of him now answer my question or else be accused of trolling

reply to post by BellaMente


and how do you know taht science doesnt even know what energy is? im thinking youve either read through every scientific essay theory or law or, somebody said so

which is it?

and if we cant explain what energy is we will eventually
it is the way of things

also it takes time to learn
as i said EVENTUALLY science will explain everything ever