Illegal drug taking crisis

Originally posted by bulletproof_monk
I agree. This site is too uptight when it comes to drugs. I think it is important to talk about them in a productive and educational way. It does relate with things being discussed on this site. I would like to discuss how these substances affects our consciousness and things related to that. I guess this isn't the place to do that though..

I totally agree with you on this! Shamanic traditions and consciousness altering substances have been around as long as humans. Drug use has been around as long as life has. It seems that everything alive tend to be experience-seeking by design. Maybe experiencing is the reason why life exists?

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by TechUnique

 

What rubbish. Due to T&C's I can't elaborate, but anyone who spouts this nonsense about Cannabis is talking out of their proverbial.

There are far more dangerous things in the world than a plant.

I'm not saying that. If you GOT ME. I meant that Cannabis is a danger because people dont think it does ANY HARM.

Whereas if you smoke it all day every day for years from an early age it MESSES YOU UP. I should know, i've been diagnosed with Pyschosis.

Jeez, i'm not just making stuff up, i've abused most drugs and sold many.

reply to post by TechUnique


In comparative terms, do you agree cannabis is less toxic than other drugs?

Among the most known drugs, cannabis would be among the low positions on a list...

and again I reinforce that there seems to be a plot to make the general public forget some very inconvenient details... 3 most common drugs in raids were discovered and synthesised by pharmaceutical corporations.

'___' - Sandoz/Novartis
MDMA/Ecstasy - Merck
Heroin - Bayer

today what is a "legal" drug by "reputable" laboratories, might become "illegal" tomorrow.

reply to post by TheComte


Well, I agree with you in the sense that a pill head is far worse than any illegal substance abuser I have ever known. However, I am not so sure that I agree with your sentiment that it is "human nature to take drugs." Your average person never ingests an illegal substance in their life. I bet you didn't realize that.

Now, I'm not one who can say that I've never done it, because I have. However, contrary to popular belief, the majority of the people never have. So, how is it "human nature" to do so?

MOD NOTE:

Please remember that any talk of legalization or personal use will be actioned. At the top of every thread it says:

This forum is for the discussion of conspiracies, scandals, and cover-ups related to the trade and trafficking of illicit drugs, and inequities in enforcement of drug-related laws. Personal use, advocacy of legalization, and related non-conspiratorial topics are not allowed. Members posting about personal recreational use of drugs and related mind-altering substances may be banned without warning.This forum is not intended for discussion of legalization advocacy or speculation of enlightenment or spiritual possibilities related to drug use.

If this is not followed by every person who responds from here on out, the thread will be closed.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


I never differentiated between legal and illegal drugs. I bet you missed that part. It's human nature to take drugs, whether it's caffeine, tobacco, or alcohol, or any of the currently illicit drugs. I stand by what I wrote.

Okay - this is going to be tricky, so i'll choose my words carefully.

Cannabis - It's upgrade to a Class B substance was a bad move by the UK government. Although i understand 'heavier' strains of skunk and super-skunk are becoming standard - most users use it either for creative or medicinal purposes.

It has relaxing and pain-killing properties and is a naturally occuring element. I agree that it 'can' on occasion become habitual through recreational use (in regards to habits as opposed to addiction).

I firmly believe the big pharma corps are actively denying us access to real information regarding this plant which has PROVEN evidence of medical and recreational and spiritual use in multiple cultures through out human history.

Sadly - the UK government would rather scare you silly with the tiny, tiny percentage of bad news - as opposed to real education on this issue.

People say regular cannabis use can in some cases lead to mental health problems - I agree, although i also agree that so can hundreds of thousands of legal and commercially available products.

Without education and study, then how will we know???

It's the culture of drugs that is the problem, not drugs themselves. People take them irresponsibly...often in large amounts, mixing alcohol with coc aine and ecstasy while smoking a few joints on the same night, completely irresponsible.. I am pro drugs in the end, if used in moderation and with a level headed approach they can benefit your life. And you mention '___' along with coc aine and Heroin, '___' is just as safe as cannabis if not safer.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by Solomons]

This forum is not intended for discussion of legalization advocacy or speculation of enlightenment or spiritual possibilities related to drug use.

Please, please define speculation. As in some cases it has been proven that shamanism (for hundreds of thousands of years) has used natural psychoactive concoctions as part of the process, this is not speculation , this is fact.

I (with total respect) am not arguing against the rules, i'm just trying to be clear on the issue (to cover my own arse).

Are we saying, we cannot discuss something that 'may' lead to spiritual insight but we can discuss the historical use of drug use in human culture. If so, then how do we as a community define this?

Where is this fine line?

Just for clarity

Originally posted by mr-lizard
People say regular cannabis use can in some cases lead to mental health problems - I agree, although i also agree that so can hundreds of thousands of legal and commercially available products.

Therein lies the crux of the issue.

Compare the amount of people supposedly treated for cannabis induced mental health issues and the cost the NHS (less than £100 million) to the known mental health issues, social issues and cost to the NHS posed by Alcohol (Several billions a year)..

Quite how anyone can have an argument against cannabis after facing these facts is beyond me.

It's difficult to convey what I want to say without breaking the rules, but lets just say I rarely drink and find something else to do instead.

I hold down a job that pays very well, I have 2 kids (and another on the way) who do very well at school, I am in good health, I don't engage in dubious behaviour unlike drinkers and I have a perfect credit rating unlike someone who feels they "have" to spend hundreds of pounds a month to get wasted on the weekend.

As far as being a "perfect citizen" I might as well be.

Compare me to someone who drinks heavily.. Nuff said....

I don't think i was clear enough on my view of cannabis.
I think its a problem because a lot of young people don't realise that if you abuse it you can become emotionally addicted and effect your mental health. I agree, it isn't harmful if you use it in moderation but this is coming from a 17 year old brit. People aren't using it in moderation. Cannabis is stupidly strong at the moment and people are smoking stupid amounts of it and they only realise they have a problem when they don't have a joint for a couple of days.

Obviously there are a lot worse illegal drugs than dope but most people know the risks assosiated with them drugs or at least know that they are bad for you.

Again i say this, Cannabis does have bad effects if you don't use it responsibly. I know from personal experience and from loads of mates and their familly and friends etc.

Originally posted by TechUnique
People aren't using it in moderation. Cannabis is stupidly strong at the moment and people are smoking stupid amounts of it and they only realise they have a problem when they don't have a joint for a couple of days.

Firstly, define moderation. Can't say much, but I doubt I think "moderate" is the same as you, if you catch my drift and I am not crazy or loony.

Also, you've bought into the whole "superskunk" nonsense. The strongest stuff you can get in the UK is pitiful compared to normal stuff in Amsterdam. It's more propoganda from the police and Government to make you fear it!

If you look at cases of mental health issues regarding cannabis the percentage is actually very high in the Uk compared to most other countries. Then we need to look at what the most common form of cannabis smoked is in the UK, that would be soap bar resin. And considering it is the lowest quality cannabis resin anyone could possibly smoke, which is bulked up with all sorts of nasties..im sure there are hundreds more but this is a short list.

Beeswax, turpentine, milk powder, ketamine, boot polish, henna, pine resin, aspirin, animal turds, ground coffee, barbiturates, glues and dyes plus carcinogenic solvents such as Toluene and Benzene

Should we not be addressing and seeing if this may be the cause of such a high percentage of mental health problems?(remember there is probably more nasties added) And i agree that people can become severely mentally addicted to cannabis, i had a few friends back in my school days who are living proof. Also cannabis can definetely exacerbate things such as anxiety and paranoia in some people, simple solution for them is to not touch it. I have a friend who can't drink coffee because he gets very bad jitters, so he doesn't drink it, same principle and basic common sense really.


[edit on 28-3-2010 by Solomons]

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by TechUnique
People aren't using it in moderation. Cannabis is stupidly strong at the moment and people are smoking stupid amounts of it and they only realise they have a problem when they don't have a joint for a couple of days.

Firstly, define moderation. Can't say much, but I doubt I think "moderate" is the same as you, if you catch my drift and I am not crazy or loony.

Also, you've bought into the whole "superskunk" nonsense. The strongest stuff you can get in the UK is pitiful compared to normal stuff in Amsterdam. It's more propoganda from the police and Government to make you fear it!

I don't fear it i love it

In Amsterdam most dutch people smoke it responsibly if at all.

By moderation i mean like a few joints a week instead of a quarter a day.

Oh and i can get some strong stuff over here, not as strong as the stuff in amsterdam but still pretty knock your socks off.

reply to post by Solomons


There isn't a lot of market for resin anymore. Especially amongst young people. Its all about the skunk in my area and most areas i know off. Then again i can't speak for everywhere in the country

Originally posted by TechUnique
reply to post by Solomons

 

There isn't a lot of market for resin anymore. Especially amongst young people. Its all about the skunk in my area and most areas i know off. Then again i can't speak for everywhere in the country

Yep - I'll agree, most people, especially the young 'uns avoid the resin now. I also agree the quality of green compared to cannabis in the 'dam is of lesser quality - But it is improving.

Drugs aren't the problem.
The problem, unfortunately, is people.

The vast, VAST majority of illegal drugs will not cause an individual ANY problems if used in strict moderation in a controlled environment.

However, from this observers point of view, far too many people, especially British youngsters, just don't realise.

If the kids could leave smoking their joint til saturday night and then only, there wouldn't be a problem.
Its just too goddamn easy to fall into the trap, and I agree, it is destroying the country.

IMO, regulation and oversight would be the best option. However, it would seem that TPTB are far more content watching the youth ruin their future - which would work incredibly well to control the population in the future. What easier people to control than those who take the path of least resistance?
Cannabis makes people docile and passive - perfect for the controlling elite who like the push the sheeple around - therefore, I believe the problem is here to stay until the entire population has a major shift of perspective.

My advice? Don't do drugs!

Originally posted by bulletproof_monk
I think there are bigger problems than cannabis. I would be more worried about drugs like coc aine, '___', heroine, etc.

I think without question, the biggest problem, is uninformed people like you who place drugs like '___' amongst the same level as coc aine and heroine. I mean really... they haven't even been able to find out the 'LD-50' for '___' it's so harmless. Much the same with many other indole hallucinogens.

We fix the drug problem by becoming informed on the matter. Which drugs truly are bad? What defines a truly bad drug?

I say, 1. It's addictiveness
2. How close the effective dose is to the LD-50 dose.
3. How long it's been used historically.

Keep 'abuse' out of it. Everything is a drug, and all drugs can be abused. I can overdose by drinking too much water. Too much TV abuse has probably caused more harm to the human mind & body than drugs have. The average American watches more than 6 hours of TV a day. I haven't even mentioned the crap people will put in their mouths, calling it "food".

There are far bigger problems that need resolving, and in my opinion, some of those "drugs" you deem so evil, are one of the solutions to fixing those problems, not a problem in itself.

And if only it were possible on these boards, I'd challenge anyone who disagrees to debate me on the issue. As it is though, all I can do is recommend Terence Mckenna to anyone who is willing to get informed of the other side of the story.

reply to post by greeneyedleo

I understand you are just doing your job here so please try not to take this too personal, but...

So basically what you, the other members of the staff and the Site owners are saying is that we are not allowed to discuss drug use unless it is shown in a negative light? Why are we not allowed to discuss legalization? Why are we not allowed to discuss personal use? How can we deny ignorance or discuss alternative substance conspiracies (which require discussion of legalization and its ramifications especially in regards to cannabis) when we are FORBIDDEN to even discuss it.


Why are we not allowed to rebut fear mongering threads such as this with scientific data and facts that show favor towards things such as legalization or advocacy of personal use? Why? Because it is illegal? I'm sorry but if that was the case then High Times Magazine, the entire city of amsterdam. The State of California, Skunk Magazine, Cannabis Culture magazine and countless pro-cannabis message boards should have been wiped off of the face of the earth by the DEA and other international drug control efforts.

I'm sorry but how is this denying ignorance?

reply to post by TechUnique


Cannabis is not stupidly strong these days. THC content has only gone up by 2 percent in the past 100 years. The highest THC content you will find in any single cannabis strain is 27-30%

When today's youth use marijuana, they are using the same drug used by youth in the 1960s and 1970s. A small number of low-THC samples seized by the Drug Enforcement Administration are used to calculate a dramatic increase in potency. However, these samples were not representative of the marijuana generally available to users during this era. Potency data from the early 1980s to the present are more reliable, and they show no increase in the average THC content of marijuana. Even if marijuana potency were to increase, it would not necessarily make the drug more dangerous. Marijuana that varies quite substantially in potency produces similar psychoactive effects.