European Members- what's your vote for June 10th?

UKIP: United Kingdom Independance Party, i am sick to death of Tony Blair and his traitorous party selling my country out to the 'nation of the beast' heck it even has a 'crown of thorns' the EU Flag. Just like the Bible says.

Europe will never have my allegence, heck if Tony puts us into the EU against the public will the word on the street is that there will be major trouble. This is one of the last chances to free my beloved country from a nation that's a dictatorship in the making. I want no part of it, never.

My Father fought for the freedom of my country and as DDay approaches i cannot vote for anything other than UKIP. For his mkemory and my country. The EU is NOTHING but the solidification of Adolf Hitlers dream. Never, i cannot allow it.

The corruption, lies, idiotic rules and the lack of the individual say in its managment and dicition making process. A dictatorship. I want out.

Dont get me wrong, i want FREE trade with the EU i havent got a problem with that, but why suck up our currencies, tax, justice system and rights to be free and independant? Why.

Never, i am English and PROUD of my country despite its faults. And i want OUT!

[Edited on 3-6-2004 by rustiswordz]

By Variable
lol, After reading all these posts I sure am glad my great-grandad got the hell out of Bavaria and came to the Land of Milk and Honey : )

Why, you don't like choice?


rustiswordz, fair enough.

I used to of similar opinion which is why I once voted for the tories on Europe even though it was against every fibre of my being.

A few things changed my mind; without going into too much detail one was the fact that Europe is going to happen with or without us. Without us the end result will marginalise us on the world stage, militarily and in IMO do far more damage to our economy in the long run. We can already see the results of our past dithering over Europe with the fact that France and Germany are in the driving seat. If we'd been in from the start we would be with or above them, and we could have formed a Europe more inline with what we wanted instead of trying to fit in with what is now there. The second is that I belive a united Europe is the only thing that can counter America's megalomania, and that is badly needed. Another is that I simply don't belive a united Europe would be a bad thing; Europe divided has caused some of the most destructive wars we've ever seen. Europe united could be a huge force for peace in the world.

That's only a few reasons, but don't get me wrong I'm not happy with things as they are now. The Common Fisheries Policy in particular is killing rural Scotland, and I aint too keen on the Tax system as it stands to name a couple, but just because things are like this now doesn't mean I'm going to give up on it altogether and it certainly doesn't mean I'm not going to vote. If I did that then I would only be contributing to the rot and lose all right to complain.

I'm a little confused over UKIP btw. What exactly are they going to do if/when they get some seats in Europe? Sit around refusing to do anything and complain about being there? It's not as if they can single handly withdraw the U.K from Europe. Are they going to vote against everything that comes in front of them? Hopefully not as that would pretty obviously cause a lot more damage to us than good.

Both my Grandfathers fought in WW2, but I see no reason for that to affect my choice on Europe. This isn't 1942 and they fought for freedom, which is choice.






[Edited on 3-6-2004 by kegs]

Originally posted by Zion Mainframe
Are you actually concidering that? It so useless!
All they do in Brussels is wasting money, by the billions.
I won't vote, even if they pay me for it.

France and Germany can and will do whatever they want, they are the EU. Other nations don't have anything to say, and blindly follow them.

Well that just show how little you know. As an example, look at what Sweden have done. Some examples, Strikter pollution rules, strikter food rules (chemicals used etc) etc etc..

What Zion Mainframe is talking about was true about 10 years ago. He lives in the past.

Rustiswordz, to compare the EU with the Nazis is particularly offensive this week.

heck if Tony puts us into the EU against the public will the word on the street is that there will be major trouble.

"The word on the street?" Which street is that? The street where no-one who works in the manufacturing industry lives? The street which isn't home to any economists or entrepreneurs? The street where are the windows are boarded up because the residents are terrified of a broader view? Or is it just a street in an area where the schools aren't very good and "Jerusalem" is played at ear-splitting volume every minute of the day?

Never, i cannot allow it.

Thankfully, it's not up to you. We live in a democracy, where the will of the majority will be enacted. I believe that the majority - not the vocal, ignorant, pompous Nick Griffins of the world, but the majority - can see beyond their petty concerns over an abstract sense of "Nationality" and embrace a broader cultural, political and economic framework.

The corruption, lies, idiotic rules and the lack of the individual say in its managment and dicition making process. A dictatorship. I want out.

You do realise what this thread is about, right? The elections next week? The reason I ask is that it's a funny kind of dictatorship that has elections, isn't it? Britain has a say in Europe - and the only thing which is threatening that voice is the close-minded xenophobia spouted by the BNP and the UKIP.

Why.

Because it's the future. Because our interests lie in Europe. Because we need to be part of it, or pay the price. Because we benefit from closer ties of trade, economics and culture. Because not even the loudest voice in the UKIP can change the geographical truth that we are part of Europe. Because the time when the English called the tune and the rest of the world danced is long gone. Because it's about time you woke up to the political truths of the 21st century rather than the 19th.

Never, i am English and PROUD of my country despite its faults. And i want OUT!

You know, that's always a telling sign. I'm pretty sure that on your passport it says British, not English, am I right?

I'm not saying that the EU is perfect - in fact, I've never met anyone who thinks it is - but being on the inside, where we can influence and contribute, is better than being on the outside, perched on a rocky nubbin between the EU and the US, crying bitter tears over a long-vanished empire.

Wake up.

hitler got into power though democracy thats whats so amazing about how the nazi's came about so it could happen again.

Its not a secret that the whole of europe hates the english & i could see us getting screwed if we give are goverance over to brussels. I dont mind trading with them but i just think there is to much distrust beetween the nations. the french strike weneva they feel like it the germans are ok but who else is there? some places in europe still have peasants!!

& what if when we do go into europe (because it is gonna happen) it dosnt go right for any number of reasons & we wonna leave do you think they would let us? Not a chance we would have to fight to get out of it & it wouldnt be easy.well not us but future generations.

it would be good if it works but i have my doubts it will id much rather we joined the U.S which could be done seen as we trade more stuff with them anyways .

anyway strangelands when you say you are british not english dont give me none of that because the scots & welsh are the 1st to cry im scottish etc when people call them british. Wot a waste of money having a scotish parliment & signs in bloody welsh. or is it wrong that Scots & welsh can have national pride fly there flags but if you fly the flag of saint george your a racist hooligan?


[Edited on 4-6-2004 by Everlasting England]

hitler got into power though democracy thats whats so amazing about how the nazi's came about so it could happen again.

I shouldn't even dignify that with a response, but I'm forced to observe that the nazis in Britain are the parties which oppose the EU.

Its not a secret that the whole of europe hates the english

Really? When did this happen? Would any of ATS' European members like to comment on this? Or is it just another example of England's "poor-me" attitude which has lingered since the end of the Second World War? "Beset on all sides by fascists and communists, England's green and pleasant land is the only beacon of light and civilisation in a world of darkness. We shall fight them on the beaches..."

i could see us getting screwed if we give are goverance over to brussels.

This isn't about giving over governance to anyone. Membership of the EU does not compromise British sovereignty, despite what the tabloids would have you believe. It's ridiculous to think that by closing your eyes and ignoring the EU, things can go back to the way they were in the "good old days" when the sun never set on the Empire.

the french strike weneva they feel like it the germans are ok but who else is there? some places in europe still have peasants!!

What an amazingly erudite argument. Perhaps you should learn about the EU from sources other than the Daily Mail.

but if you fly the flag of saint george your a racist hooligan?

No, you can fly the flag as much as you like. It's being a deranged xenophobic bigot that makes someone a rascist hooligan. I'm Scottish, yes, but I'm also British, European, and a citizen of the world. But it's no coincidence that the George Cross has been co-opted by the neofascist Right.

how did hitler come to power then if he wasnt elected? think you'l find he was then when he got into power he then set about turning the state into a dictatorship. if you dont know what happened look it up its pretty well documented.

but anyways im all for a united europe just i dont think it will work & it could lead to trouble.

it is a pointless argument as we are gonna join europe so dont worry you will get ya united europe long live the euro block i wish us the best.


im also sure that the UKIP is not like the BNP.the BNP are pretty hardcore where as all i see the UKIP standing for is keeping the pound & not hav our laws decided by europe so how that makes them nazis im not quite sure.

i think you'l find they hate us not because of our mighty past empire but because how we tend to go on holidays & abuse the place's.

do you think that in a united europe that eventually we would all speak one language? not right away but if it held like 200 years or so? that would be wired.

i dont read the daily mail m8 the words are to big for me i like the Sun

[Edited on 4-6-2004 by Everlasting England]